Archbishop links priestly celibacy and Catholic sex abuse scandals

[dixieagle]

I would say that you are not the one who is not getting it. By requiring priests to marry a good and decent Catholic wife, the number of perverts in the Catholic priesthood would decline and further, for the small number remaining, a good and decent Catholic woman would be able to help in spotting the problem and alerting the police to the crimes committed by these perverts.

With all due respect, you simply don’t understand the nature of pedophilia/ephebophilia nor, apparently, the nature of Christian marriage; wives aren’t supposed to be police.

I am, however, of the opinion that optional celibacy might be a good thing.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

No, hon, you’re the one who doesn’t get it.

You are not going to 'decrease the number of people with pedophilia by eliminating celibacy–you’re going to increase it. Celibacy does not cause pedophilia. Celibacy does not encourage pedophilia.

Now before you get all het up, as a good Catholic woman let me tell you. . marriage doesn’t cause pedophilia or encourage it either. Got that?

But what you don’t seem to understand is that a person with pedophilia does not abuse a child because he doesn’t like women, or because he can’t ‘have’ a woman. A man does not ‘develop’ pedophilia because he has been denied sex!!!

A person with pedophilia wants to abuse a child because he has strong desires to abuse children–sometimes it is young girls, sometimes it is young boys, sometimes it is a child of a particular age range, or race, or a child with certain characteristics. . .quiet, sporty, spiritual. . .

And some people are ephebophiles. . .they have strong desires to abuse ‘teens’. . .not very YOUNG children, but not adult ‘men and women’ either. Usually they want to abuse teens just in puberty–ages 11 to 17.

So a man is not ‘more likely’ to be a pedophile because he is celibate. In fact, in the majority of cases these predators are married men who have good sexual relationships with their wives and the next greatest number are men who have sexual relations with men and also with children. A lot of these men marry in order to have children and abuse THEIR OWN CHILDREN. Look it up. Don’t just take my word for it. I keep telling you, it is in black and white in the DSM-IV. This is what the PROFESSIONALS use to determine if a person is in fact a pedophile!!!

 

[sidbrown]

No, hon, you’re the one who doesn’t get it.

You are not going to 'decrease the number of people with pedophilia by eliminating celibacy–you’re going to increase it. Celibacy does not cause pedophilia. Celibacy does not encourage pedophilia.

Now before you get all het up, as a good Catholic woman let me tell you. . marriage doesn’t cause pedophilia or encourage it either. Got that?

But what you don’t seem to understand is that a person with pedophilia does not abuse a child because he doesn’t like women, or because he can’t ‘have’ a woman. A man does not ‘develop’ pedophilia because he has been denied sex!!!

A person with pedophilia wants to abuse a child because he has strong desires to abuse children–sometimes it is young girls, sometimes it is young boys, sometimes it is a child of a particular age range, or race, or a child with certain characteristics. . .quiet, sporty, spiritual. . .

And some people are ephebophiles. . .they have strong desires to abuse ‘teens’. . .not very YOUNG children, but not adult ‘men and women’ either. Usually they want to abuse teens just in puberty–ages 11 to 17.

So a man is not ‘more likely’ to be a pedophile because he is celibate. In fact, in the majority of cases these predators are married men who have good sexual relationships with their wives and the next greatest number are men who have sexual relations with men and also with children. A lot of these men marry in order to have children and abuse THEIR OWN CHILDREN. Look it up. Don’t just take my word for it. I keep telling you, it is in black and white in the DSM-IV. This is what the PROFESSIONALS use to determine if a person is in fact a pedophile!!!

What percentage of the perverts in this study were married to decent and devout Catholic women? Further, experts and professionals have been proven wrong many, many times in the past. How many examples do you need for this?
I suggest that abolition of celibacy and the imposition of mandatory Matrimony with a decent and devout Catholic wife for all priests without exception would help to solve the problem.

 

[Zatzat]

In fact, in the majority of cases these predators are married men who have good sexual relationships with their wives

I’m not a Catholic, but I do think Priests should be allowed to marry.

However, I just want to point out that you’re absolutely correct.

The ABSOLUTE VAST MAJORITY of sexual abuse of children takes place in the home by someone that is known to and trusted by the children.

Being married to a woman does not decrease, nor increase the statistical probability of a person being a pedophile.

If any person states that being married will reduce the number of pedophiles, they’re simply ignoring hard facts.

The only thing I don’t agree with is your assertion that the predators have ’ good sexual relationships with their wives.’

I’d be hesitant to believe such a claim without first having seen the valid, published and peer reviewed research that proves such a claim.

 

[Zatzat]

What percentage of the perverts in this study were married to decent and devout Catholic women? Further, experts and professionals have been proven wrong many, many times in the past. How many examples do you need for this?
I suggest that abolition of celibacy and the imposition of mandatory Matrimony with a decent and devout Catholic wife for all priests without exception would help to solve the problem.

No.

You’re subjective opinion does not trump reality. Nor can you expect to be taken seriously when you state ’ professionals have been proven wrong many, many times in the past ’ as if that is some kind of free pass into believing whatever you want, despite your belief being diametrically opposed to reality.

Did the experts create these sexual abuse victims out of thin air?

I’m to believe your subjective opinion, based on nothing but your own biases, over mountains of peer reviewed, valid and published social scientific and medical research???

Not a chance.

 

[aicirt]

What percentage of the perverts in this study were married to decent and devout Catholic women? Further, experts and professionals have been proven wrong many, many times in the past. How many examples do you need for this?
I suggest that abolition of celibacy and the imposition of mandatory Matrimony with a decent and devout Catholic wife for all priests without exception would help to solve the problem.

How does one judge a woman to be a decent and devout Catholic? What woman would want to marry a priest with the Church hanging it over her that she’s to report him if he turns out to be a pedophile? Some of these “priests” were living with other priests in rectories who never picked up on their pedophile activities. There was one recent scandal where a deceased priest and founder of a religious order working in Rome was discovered to have had a family. This came out after his death when his child announced the priest was his father. The order he founded was shaken to its core.

If you look at the news stories involving married men who have affairs, it doesn’t seem easy for the wife to toss him out. The wife of a priest would be supported by the Church. Her home would probably be owned by the Church. Her children have a certain status. She has a certain status. You may think it would be easy but when a person is suddenly faced with the choice of doing the right thing and being out on the street with no finances, it doesn’t appear that easy.

 

[jc-servant]

I am not buying it. I think that a good and decent Catholic wife would keep a sharp eye out for problems. I think that all priests should be required to be married and celibacy should be done away with completely. All of these stories coming out every day of perverts and coverups are thoroughly disgusting and shameful…

Expecting women to act as police detectives or jailers to watch their husbands for possible signs of perverse inclinations is not realistic or practical or even addressing the real problem. Married or not it would not prevent those who seek to prey on a vulnerable population whether it be children or elderly or the disabled from finding opportunities to be near their potential victims. We have known this for decades in law enforcement.

More children are molested by family members and adults at their schools than by religious figures in all churches combined. No one argues that making all school teachers get married would stop abuse by them. The same goes for Scout masters and sports coaches and any other position that would get the abuser near potential victims. There are perverts who like older victims who work in hospitals, mental facilities and nursing homes as well, so it is not just an issue of abusers who seek child victims. The media just spends more time talking about the child victims because they are the more sympathetic group that will get the public’s attention and tug at the heartstrings versus the elderly dementia patients or the mentally ill who cannot advocate for themselves and won’t look as good on a new story.

My diocese requires background checks and special “safe adult” training for all staff and volunteers who work with a vulnerable population whether it be children or elderly or disabled. We have a “2 adult” rule to protect the volunteers/staff and the other people. If there are no opportunities to be alone with a potential victim, then the abuse cannot occur. We leave doors open or have “private” counseling type conversations done in many cases in a very large room by going to the far corner where one can be seen but not overheard. There are still a few circumstances where one must be alone such as in the confessional, but we have limited the opportunities for abuse substantially since this policy has been in place for over a decade. One has to be realistic about what is going on before good policy can be made and assuming that a “wife” can solve the problem ignores the wider picture.

 

[sidbrown]

How does one judge a woman to be a decent and devout Catholic? .

Someone who attends Mass and says the rosary every day. Someone who teaches her children good morals and character and is dedicated to God and family.

 

[Zatzat]

Someone who attends Mass and says the rosary every day. Someone who teaches her children good morals and character and is dedicated to God and family.

You’ve ignored nearly single every objection, from multiple posters, regarding the substance of your post.

Yet, of all the questions and retorts thrown at you, you chose what could be perceived as the single easiest question to answer, as the response only requires your subjective opinion in which to answer it.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Remain on the thread topic and cease from personal remarks or the thread will be closed and infractions handed out.

 

[Zatzat]

The topic is celibacy in the priesthood may contribute to pedophilia and Sidbrown, your claim is that decent and devout Catholic women married to priests, would result in less pedophiliac abuse.

Sidbrown, you’ve had a few posters question your position and who’ve provided succinct, respectful and factual responses. With the possibility that you’ve obtained new information, have you re-considered your position?

 

[aicirt]

Someone who attends Mass and says the rosary every day. Someone who teaches her children good morals and character and is dedicated to God and family.

Okay. And when the pedophile priests were living in rectories, weren’t their fellow priests, who were dedicated to God, attending daily Mass and saying the rosary too? How did that work out?

 

[sidbrown]

Okay. And when the pedophile priests were living in rectories, weren’t their fellow priests, who were dedicated to God, attending daily Mass and saying the rosary too? How did that work out?

It is not the same as having a devoted and dedicated Catholic wife. My solution to minimising this problem:
Background checks for all seminarians.
Require that all priests without exception get married to devout family oriented Catholic women.
Throw out and immediately laicise any priest found to be guilty.
Report any and all criminal activity with children to the police.
Strengthen civil laws and increase civil punishment for crimes of this sort.

 

[agnostic_1]

the idea that pedophiles would seek out the catholic priesthood is so obvious to everyone but the most blinded.

as a predatory pedophile being a priest gives you:

1. trust (not anymore thank god) to be alone with peoples children
2. no one asks questions why a 43 year old man is not married and hasn’t been with a woman
3. a leadership who will not report you or hold you accountable if caught.

it’s a pedophiles dream job come true… to think the priestly celibacy policy did not have anything to do with this child sex scandal is absurd, open your eyes it’s so obvious.

 

[Zatzat]

Require that all priests without exception get married to devout family oriented Catholic women.

The absolute vast majority of sexual abuse takes place in the home. You fail to see that pedophiles and sexual predators exist everywhere in society…including families.

Do you propose some kind of test to determine if a woman meets the threshold for being adequately devout and family oriented?

Your making a positive claim, that priests married to, not just any women, but devout and family oriented women will reduce the number of children sexually assaulted by priests.

You’ve made a positive claim, now the onus is on you to prove your claim correct. All you’ve done is given your opinion, now you really should back your opinion up with fact, so that it may be proven correct.

 

[pnewton]

Whatever. I think that priests should be required to get married. How much longer are we going to be hearing about these perverts in the Catholic priesthood?

This always comes up. Those who disagree with priestly celibacy always use this line, even though there is not statistical basis for it. I think this post says it best

TRUST no one.

Rules need to be in place, and are in place where I live as well as many other dioceses, whereby everyone, employee and volunteer, are subject to criminal background checks, awareness training and protocols to limit the opportunity for these crimes to occur. The Church needs to universally, as it has in many areas already, enact policies where trust is not relied upon to protect children.

 

[baylee]

I would say that you are not the one who is not getting it. By requiring priests to marry a good and decent Catholic wife, the number of perverts in the Catholic priesthood would decline and further, for the small number remaining, a good and decent Catholic woman would be able to help in spotting the problem and alerting the police to the crimes committed by these perverts.

I’m sorry. I was once a single Catholic woman and I would not have wanted a man to marry me just so he could also be a priest and have access to boys…because don’t think that scenario wouldn’t happen.

 

[rfulks]

I don’t think that the celibacy requirement causes priests to become homosexuals or pedophiles, but I think that the celibacy requirement very clearly discourages men with normal, natural heterosexual inclinations from choosing the priesthood. The result is that seminaries fill up with an unusually high percentage of homosexuals and men who are mentally immature and end up fondling boys in the confessional. To eliminate the celibacy requirement would not absolutely eliminate the possibility of future sexual abuse, but I am certain that it would allow for many more normal heterosexual men with normal heterosexual desires to enter the seminary.

 

[Zatzat]

I am certain that it would allow for many more normal heterosexual men with normal heterosexual desires to enter the seminary.

A very interesting point of view. I suspect there’s some substance to what you say.

 

[rfulks]

A very interesting point of view. I suspect there’s some substance to what you say.

Thanks. I can’t imagine that I am the only person who has thought of the issue this way, but I haven’t seen it written about or discussed.