Archbishop of Canterbury says RC Church 'has lost credibility'

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I may be off topic but, it sounds like bone-picking. Did’nt Archbishop Williams suffer criticism over the Apostolic Constitution?
 
Let us pray for him and for all who bring scandal to the church
 
Well, since he’s not the Pope I could care less what he thinks or says.

Let the person without sin cast the first stone. (Now where have I heard that before?:rolleyes:)
 
Lex said:
Rowan Williams has said that the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland has lost “all credibility” over the way it had dealt with paedophile priests."

Read about it here: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8601381.stm

And here: timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7086328.ece

Comments appear here: bit.ly/92lwl6

This is a sad day for Christians in the UK (and elsewhere) and is causing a media feeding frenzy 😦

Pax
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The reality is, whether we like it or not, it is going to take the Catholic Church a long time to live down this reputation. I’d say it’s done a great deal of damage to any hopes of church re-unification.

That the great majority of Catholics had nothing to do with it, and in most cases would have had no idea it was going on, won’t make much difference to the public mind, or the minds of Christians in other churches.

While Dr. Williams’ comments might be a bit too negative, he’s basically right. If the Lutheran or Anglican Churches had covered up paedophile priests on such a consistent scale, I wonder what we would have said about it? We’re quick enough to comment on the issue of female priests, or homosexual marriage, or homosexual bishops, but we don’t like it when others point out some home truths to us.
 
Well, we Catholics weren’t very popular the first 300 years of our existence so I know the gates of Hell will not prevail this time either (or ever for that matter).

I understand that some of us in the church would point a finger if the shoe were on the other foot as we do now with the Anglican church and her problems. We are human and we are sinful by nature. Doesn’t make either side right. But but we are talking about what Dr. Williams has said of this situation and I believe he needs to address his own churches issue rather than issuing statements about ours.

We also need to deal with this scandal also. But not during Holy Week. I noticed the media is in a feeding frenzy like the Vatican is going to do something pronto during the holiest week of the year. Just goes to show their ignorance. But I’m getting off the subject…sorry. 😊
 
There’s no question much credibility has been lost, but it is a reach to say “all” credibility. Most Catholics around me continue to go to Mass and respect their priests, even if they are angry about the scandal. I believe that most informed Catholics understand that the Church has survived similar times in spite of having some very unsavory men in high positions of authority.
 
CatholicFireman said:
Well, since he’s not the Pope I could care less what he thinks or says.

Let the person without sin cast the first stone. (Now where have I heard that before?:rolleyes:)
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I was thinking a bit more along the lines of the pot calling the kettle black…Rather audacious of the Archbishop of Canterbury to be lecturing us on credibility, given that the leadersip of the Anglican Communion has failed, time after time, to prevent major rifts between its members - so much so, that it is difficult to even call it a “communion” at the moment.

The Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin thus responded to Dr Williams’ comments:
Statement by Archbishop Diarmuid Martin on comments made by Dr Rowan Williams Archbishop of Canterbury :
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The unequivocal and unqualified comment in a radio interview of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, that the Catholic Church in Ireland has “lost all credibility” has stunned me.
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As Archbishop of Dublin, I have been more than forthright in addressing the failures of the Catholic Church in Ireland. I still shudder when I think of the harm that was caused to abused children. I recognise that their Church failed them.
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But I also journey with those - especially parents and priests - who work day by day to renew the Catholic Church in this diocese and who are committed to staying with their Church and passing on the faith in wearying times.
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Archbishop Williams’ comments will be for them immensely disheartening and will challenge their faith even further. Those working for renewal in the Catholic Church in Ireland did not need this comment on this Easter weekend and do not deserve it.
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Only last Thursday I had spoken about the good ecumenical, pastoral and personal friendship that I share with the Church of Ireland Archbishop of Dublin, John Neill, and I repeat that statement today.
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But speaking frankly I have to say that in all my years as Archbishop of Dublin in difficult times I have rarely felt personally so discouraged as this morning when I woke to hear Archbishop William’s comments.
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Some Church of Ireland (Anglican) bishops have also rebuked Dr Williams:
The Anglican archbishop of Dublin, Dr John Neill, expressed his support for Martin, describing Williams’s comments as regrettable.
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He said: “I extend to archbishop Diarmuid Martin my support as he works for the proclamation of the gospel and the healing of hurt, including that of the faithful and their clergy whose ministry has been undermined by those guilty of the abuse of children.”
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The Anglican bishop of Meath and Kildare, Richard Clarke, branded Williams’s remarks as hurtful and reckless.
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"Whereas it is clearly true that the Roman Catholic church in this country is facing deep and serious challenges to its authority as a consequence of clerical abuse scandals, this careless and reckless use of language by archbishop Williams is extremely unfortunate.
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“It is deeply hurtful to Roman Catholic clergy and laity alike, and indeed to those of other Christian traditions, that such a thoughtless remark should be made by Archbishop Williams,” he added. “I hope that he will reflect on his comments, and I deeply regret the hurt that he has caused.”
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HERE
 
I would have thought that Rowan Williams would have more important things to think about. Like the crumbling of the Anglican community for starters.
 
Archbishop Rowan Williams should think twice before commenting on the Catholic sex abuse crisis…
… because there are plenty of unexploded bombs lying around his own back yard in the shape of sexual relationships between Church of England priests and teenage boys that have never come to light. Believe me. I am not planning to reveal any names or pass them on to colleagues: it would not be fair on the victims, who do not need this sort of miserable disruption to their lives. But when I run through my mental checklist of Anglican clergy who used their status to pressure boys and young men into sex in the 1970s, 80 and 90s, I realise that it is quite a long one. Also, that some of the prelates who chose to ignore these goings-on are still alive and highly respected retired bishops. As it happens, I agree with every word that the Archbishop of Canterbury has said about the Irish Church, and I do not suspect his motives in making those comments. It’s just a bit rich, coming from the leader of a Church in which traditions of English reserve have managed to keep so many scandals politely concealed.
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More…
 
Archbishop of Canterbury apologizes:
A statement from the Dublin Archdiocese said: ‘The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, this afternoon telephoned Archbishop Diarmuid Martin to express his deep sorrow and regret for difficulties which may have been created by remarks in a BBC interview concerning the credibility of the Catholic Church in Ireland.’
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‘Archbishop Williams affirmed that nothing could have been farther from his intention than to offend or criticise the Irish Church.’
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Prior to the apology Archbishop Martin said he was ‘stunned’ by Dr Williams’ intervention.
The clergyman said the ‘unequivocal and unqualified comment’ would knock those battling to renew the church.
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‘As Archbishop of Dublin, I have been more than forthright in addressing the failures of the Catholic Church in Ireland. I still shudder when I think of the harm that was caused to abused children. I recognise that their Church failed them,’ he said.
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'But I also journey with those - especially parents and priests - who work day by day to renew the Catholic Church in this diocese and who are committed to staying with their Church and passing on the faith in wearying times.
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‘Archbishop Williams’ comments will be for them immensely disheartening and will challenge their faith even further… In all my years as Archbishop of Dublin in difficult times I have rarely felt personally so discouraged as when I woke to hear Archbishop Williams’ comments.’
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Church of Ireland Bishop of Meath and Kildare Richard Clarke said the remarks were ‘thoughtless’ and ‘deeply hurtful’.
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‘Whereas it is clearly true that the Roman Catholic Church in this country is facing deep and serious challenges to its authority as a consequence of clerical abuse scandals, this careless and reckless use of language by Archbishop Williams is extremely unfortunate,’ he said.
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Bishop Clarke said most Bishops, priests and religious of the Roman Catholic tradition minister faithfully and selflessly under very difficult conditions.
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‘All credibility has most certainly not been lost to the Church, and it is deeply hurtful to Roman Catholic clergy and laity alike, and indeed to those of other Christian traditions, that such a thoughtless remark should be made by Archbishop Williams,’ he added.
‘It should be remembered that the Archbishop has neither experience of Irish life nor any direct ecclesiastical authority in this country. I hope that he will reflect on his comments, and I deeply regret the hurt that he has caused.’
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The Catholic Church in Ireland has been rocked in recent months after revelations that paedophile priests got away with decades of horrific child sex abuse.
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Pressure mounted this month on its leader, the Primate of All-Ireland Cardinal Sean Brady, after he admitted being at a meeting where children abused by notorious convicted sex offender Fr Brendan Smyth were forced to take a vow of silence.
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Despite being greeted by applause at Armargh Cathedral and at St Patrick’s Church, Drogheda at services on Maundy Thursday and Good Friday, it is understood Cardinal Brady is under increasing pressure to go.
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More…
 
I really, really would’ve thought Dr. Williams would know better. He’s usually one of my favorite non-Catholic Christian leaders, but in this scenario it seems as if he was speaking rather imprudently.
 
Archbishop Williams is simply stating the obvious sentiment voiced by Catholics worldwide. Does anyone disagree with him?
Bob_Crowley said:
The reality is, whether we like it or not, it is going to take the Catholic Church a long time to live down this reputation. I’d say it’s done a great deal of damage to any hopes of church re-unification.

That the great majority of Catholics had nothing to do with it, and in most cases would have had no idea it was going on, won’t make much difference to the public mind, or the minds of Christians in other churches.

While Dr. Williams’ comments might be a bit too negative, he’s basically right. If the Lutheran or Anglican Churches had covered up paedophile priests on such a consistent scale, I wonder what we would have said about it? We’re quick enough to comment on the issue of female priests, or homosexual marriage, or homosexual bishops, but we don’t like it when others point out some home truths to us.
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OriginalJS said:
There’s no question much credibility has been lost, but it is a reach to say “all” credibility.
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I think that it is totally off base to make any statement along the those lines. For what Archbishop Williams is saying is that the our Christian faith as established by Christ has no credibility. He has a deeply flawed understanding of Christianity. No scandal, no matter how vile, no person in the church, no matter how evil, has the power to change the faith established by Jesus Christ. We have certainly seen this in the case of some Popes who were notoriously wicked.

Therein is the problem with all of non-Catholic Christian faiths, beginning with Anglicanism on through the line. They were established by men who thought they knew better. They are denominations established upon the credibility of the interpretation of men like Thomas Cranmer, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Ulrich Zwingli, John Smyth et al. I challenge Archbishop Williams to tell me which group is on shaker grounds of credibility.

The Catholic Church will survive this scandal, and will be much stronger for it. Archbishop Williams cannot say the same of the crumbling at the heart of the Anglican Communion. Anglicanism with wither and go, the Catholic Church live on.

God bless

Tony
 
Usbek_de_Perse said:
Archbishop Williams is simply stating the obvious sentiment voiced by Catholics worldwide. Does anyone disagree with him?
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I do, and so, apparently, does the Anglican bishop, Richard Clarke:
“As those of us who live in this country know very well, most bishops, priests and religious of the Roman Catholic tradition minister faithfully and selflessly under very difficult conditions with the love and support of their people.
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“All credibility has most certainly not been lost to the Church, and it is deeply hurtful to Roman Catholic clergy and laity alike, and indeed to those of other Christian traditions, that such a thoughtless remark should be made by Archbishop Williams,”
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Usbek_de_Perse said:
Archbishop Williams is simply stating the obvious sentiment voiced by Catholics worldwide. Does anyone disagree with him?
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I don’t think the issue is one of disagreement, necessarily. I think the issue is more the source of the criticism. That Rowan Williams should criticize anyone else for pastoral ineptitude is the ontological definition of irony. In fact, I’m fairly certain that if you look up “irony” in the dicitonary, one of the definitions has to be “whenever the 104th Archbishop of Canterbury offers commentary on the pastoral failures of ANYONE”! Arch-ditherer, more like.
 
Bob_Crowley said:
The reality is, whether we like it or not, it is going to take the Catholic Church a long time to live down this reputation. I’d say it’s done a great deal of damage to any hopes of church re-unification.

That the great majority of Catholics had nothing to do with it, and in most cases would have had no idea it was going on, won’t make much difference to the public mind, or the minds of Christians in other churches.

While Dr. Williams’ comments might be a bit too negative, he’s basically right. If the Lutheran or Anglican Churches had covered up paedophile priests on such a consistent scale, I wonder what we would have said about it? We’re quick enough to comment on the issue of female priests, or homosexual marriage, or homosexual bishops, but we don’t like it when others point out some home truths to us.
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What has happened is that they have lumped in cases over a period of 40 years or more. Reminds me of the situation when Teddy Roosevelt was police commissioner. A new reporter got to know the cops and began easnestly reporting ever new case made know to him by cops on the beat. The paper began running headlines like “crime wave " sweeps the city.” The people on Park Avenue got very upset, and Roosevelt called in the reporter. Jacob Ries,a good friend of TR, and asked him to cool, since the incidence of crime had not increased in years. The sex scandal is a bit like global warming. Whatever the facts. the real point is to cause a sensation.
 
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