Archbishop of San Francisco warns of coming war on marriage

  • Thread starter Thread starter estesbob
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Ahm, yes, those many many thousands of bakers and B&B owners who have been forced out of business because they didn’t realise that anti-discrimination laws applied to them too. Whereas we all know that there are at most a handful of same sex couples around the world who would like to marry but are prevented by judeo-christian prejudice.

Also, let us not forget that being forced to bake a cake or rent a room when you have voluntarily chosen to make a living by offering this service in the public arena is clearly a much larger imposition than being forced to spend the rest of your life being told that you are not married, being forced to sell your home to pay death duties when your partner dies and so on! :rolleyes:

Like Galileo supporting the truth that the earth goes around the sun. Of course, that was an objective truth, not a subjective belief. 👍
People who engaged in homosexual behavior have never been denied marriage. never. The question is whether we should change the definition of marriage to allow the so called marriage of the people of same sex. Opposition to this is no based on a “Catholic view”. It Based on the eons old definition of marriage. Now we see the demand that not only should the definition of marriage but the utter crushing of anyone who does no agree with the new definition.

Galileo, BTW, was punished for insulting the Pope. After all the man who first postulated that the sun was the center of the universe was Copernicus. a CATHOLIC Priest. He was not punished in any way for.
 
People who engaged in homosexual behavior have never been denied marriage. never. The question is whether we should change the definition of marriage to allow the so called marriage of the people of same sex. Opposition to this is no based on a “Catholic view”. It Based on the eons old definition of marriage. Now we see the demand that not only should the definition of marriage but the utter crushing of anyone who does no agree with the new definition.
You can keep repeating this all you want. But sure they’ve been denied. They’re not attracted to someone of the opposite sex to marry. So obviously for SS couples to have the right, the definition has to change. And just because something is eons old doesn’t necessarily make it right. People can evolve and grow in their understandings over the course of time, Just because eons ago women did not speak in churches, for instance, doesn’t make that right. And no one is crushing those who don’t agree. Catholics for instance can continue on with their heterosexual Sacramental marriages and not perform marriages for SS couples. No one is being crushed. The only thing being crushed have been the hearts of loving, committed SS couples for eons when they were denied their right to marry.
 
Thank you for reversing your previous post regarding my supposed views about "nasty homosexuals."
I don’t reverse a thing, as that post does not assert what you claim it does.
If you want to accuse me of uncharitable posting, take it up with the Mods.
I don’t have to justify posts which are perfectly true and perfectly reasonable and well within the rules of the forum.
If your claims were perfectly true and reasonable, why have you not justified them?

Accusing a fellow Catholic of attacking the seal of the confessional is quite a serious charge, is it not?
 
People who engaged in homosexual behavior have never been denied marriage. never.
Same sex couples have been. Saying that homosexuals ‘may’ marry someone of the opposite sex is as hollow as saying that catholics have freedom of religion as long as that religion is Islam. 🤷
The question is whether we should change the definition of marriage to allow the so called marriage of the people of same sex. Opposition to this is no based on a “Catholic view”. It Based on the eons old definition of marriage.
Many many cultures, including many of those existing in the current USA before christians arrived, had definitions of marriage that included same sex cultures.
Galileo, BTW, was punished for insulting the Pope. After all the man who first postulated that the sun was the center of the universe was Copernicus. a CATHOLIC Priest. He was not punished in any way for.
Let’s not get off topic. But very briefly, the papal condemnation of Galileo makes it very clear that he was punished for holding that the earth goes around the sun.

…and Aristarchus proposed heliocentrism long before Copernicus. Who was allegedly terrified of the response of the Church and had to be jollied into publishing. And whose books were censored by the church after his death.

Those living in glass houses should not throw the first stone.
 
Many many cultures, including many of those existing in the current USA before christians arrived, had definitions of marriage that included same sex cultures…
UN-Civilized cultures…remember?
 
I didn’t say you did, I mentioned the fact that it originally referred to a civil, not religious, arrangement, and you (apparently) dissented. Your objection may seem crystal clear to you, but it is not me.

For example, if (as you say) you agree that it originally referred to a “a civil legal arrangement in Rome”, what do you disagree with? That it was used to refer to same sex couples? Cicero explicitly argues in court that Marcus Antonius and Curio are as married as any heterosexual couple!
I was expanding upon your post - I didn’t disagree with anything you had actually said.
 
Neither are supporters of same-sex civil marriage telling the Catholic Church that they must perform same-sex weddings. I know that you’re going to bring up the cake bakers and the florists, so the solution is to pass laws protecting their right to refuse to provide their services if it violates their religious beliefs.
Not yet but if you don’t think this is coming, you are sadly mistaken. There are NUMEROUS suits where gays and Lesbians violated “morals clauses” of their contracts by getting “married” and were then terminated. They then sued and even if they didn’t win, cost these religious organization thousands in legal fees. There is a gay EMHC who is flooding his Bishop’s office with letters, petitions, agitating and raising heck because when he “married” he was told he could no longer distribute Holy Communion. He may not be able to sue given it would be difficult to assess damages.

But make no mistake this is in the works. It has already occurred in the UK. Honestly I don’t care what other churches do. The Episcopal church was performing gay “weddings” long before there was legal gay “marriage” in any state but I think Massachusetts. No one was charging in screaming fire and brimstone. I just wish gays and Lesbians would take a chill pill and quit making their cause so petty by suing over cakes and photographs.

Further there ARE laws about religious freedom but they are not being upheld which is quite alarming. Most of the “Bakery Suer” cases are at state administrative levels rather than full legal proceedings. But it’s clear that many judges are taking these cases as the new civil rights battle despite the huge differences between the fight for racial equality to just sit at a lunch counter versus forcing someone to bake you a cake.
 
Sometimes I will have a powerful, unusual dream where I am “in” a situation, as when a friend’s son was found dead in a creek bed under a bridge after a snowstorm. The suspicion was that he was going to visit a suicidal friend around midnight, and was knocked off the road by a snowplow. I dreamed I was the friend; in that room with an obnoxious family member; and felt the despair and toxic dynamics of a household inimical to happiness; and knew he did not himself commit suicide; but this gentle and wise soul was indeed knocked off the bridge by a snowplow. Yep.

I was “inside” another unpleasant situation decades ago when I dreamed I was named, yes, “Barack al Fami”; and there was sharia law & order with the cutting off of hands of thieves; and two homosexual ladies answered a door in this high-crime era where they were unusually protected (hate crime legislation and marriage privileges) but the privileges didn’t extend to others. Lots of property rights for homosexuals, and one notes the Bible says materialism is the foundation of homosexuality.

The best tutorial on marriage is Jewish scholar Savina Teubal’s SARAH THE PRIESTESS; and I talked to her before death and she used the word “priestess” in the title because her publisher insisted it was more controversial and would help sales; but the title and office she describes is that of the EN, meaning woman of “grace” literally, the Genesis 3:15 woman & seed fulfilled in the Virgin Mary & Jesus; and all her “other” children in John’s APOCALYPSE 12.

The Ancient Sacred Wedding Rite is, as Oxford’s Christian Egyptologist Kenneth Kitchen notes, another cultural universal right out of Genesis, like a standard of modesty. Let me paste this little quote from above:
**
Matrimony is taken from the Latin, “mater,” meaning “mother,” and “monium,” meaning “a state or condition,” thus defining the purpose of marriage as a man taking a wife in order to have children. In ancient Rome, this was understood as the purpose of marriage, the production of new citizens for the pagan Roman Empire. **

“Matrimony” is from Genesis 2, throughout history, and to Christ’s Second Coming, the Man’s leaving his home and approaching the Woman for her to take a husband, not the husband taking a wife, see? This is the Woman & Seed dynamic. And the “War on Woman” is the so-called “patriarchal revolution” that overthrew this, emplaced kings, and threw down landmarks (those big and little “goddess” figurines are, as with Rachel, land titles women inherit through mom), with the satanic rebels turning the EN–the queens/gwena’s into prostitutes and killing her children and enslaving or killing her monotheist husbands.

That’s the same battle today as of old, it’s “WOMEN AND CHILDREN LAST” with the CIA’s Gloria Steinem channeling feminism into abortion and away from equal pay for equal work. It’s the serial marriage and use of women like the enslaved sacred prostitute without the shack out back of DAVINCI CODE infamy. It’s prostitution-in-place.

This degradation of marriage fulfills Christ’s warning that the latter days will be as the days of Noah, marrying and giving in marriage, and the Noah era’s “marriage” was marked by violence and rapine and strange couples, the Sons of God with the Daughters of Men, probably a kind of hominid perhaps. I note that rape is on the increase after the cell phone and concealed carry dent in violence against women. When the “B” word becomes as repulsive as the “N” word, we will have addressed our own complicity in the War on Woman & Child. Men are to love women and children unto death. But the satanistas have delinked love, marriage and children.

Homosexuals refused civil unions that would have aided unmarried women joining households with legal protections and no sexual contact. The marriage envy is another of the cultural kidnappings, like the rainbow. Homosexual “marriage” means there is, if reproduction is to occur, going to be a third party in the mix of these sterile unions. Very bad for sexually transmitted disease vectors multiplying. Women are again turned into breeders as in the patriarchal revolution where the EN woman was put into a temple to breed with strangers. Woman & Seed are God’s curse upon Lucifer and his minions, the basis of the war on Woman & Seed.

**It is our duty to “keep our generations pure” like Noah and stay on track and apart from the profane culture. **

The disdain for “matrimony” in the classic sense is disdain for woman, and that disdain and marginalization for me as a Catholic is marked by ignoring Our Lady’s promise at Fatima, Portugal, for the “only” means of peace, to convert Russia, after an invitation by all the bishops in a public, solemn, simultaneous consecration to her Immaculate Heart. Any complicity in this “War on Woman” is utterly suicidal. The divine family will ultimately triumph when Christ returns, leaves His Heavenly home, and approaches His Bride, the Church, to be received by Him in the marital union with divinity Our Lady now shares with the Holy Spirit. Rough times ahead. EVEN SO, COME LORD JESUS! THE SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY, “COME!” +
 
Many many cultures, including many of those existing in the current USA before christians arrived, had definitions of marriage that included same sex cultures.
What happened to them? Why didn’t it catch on?
 
You can keep repeating this all you want. But sure they’ve been denied. They’re not attracted to someone of the opposite sex to marry. So obviously for SS couples to have the right, the definition has to change. And just because something is eons old doesn’t necessarily make it right. People can evolve and grow in their understandings over the course of time, Just because eons ago women did not speak in churches, for instance, doesn’t make that right. And no one is crushing those who don’t agree. Catholics for instance can continue on with their heterosexual Sacramental marriages and not perform marriages for SS couples. No one is being crushed. The only thing being crushed have been the hearts of loving, committed SS couples for eons when they were denied their right to marry.
Mothers can’t marry sons,sisters can’t marry each other. if they are really,really in “love” shouldn’t we change the definition of marriage to encompass their sexual desires?

Homosexuals have always been able to marry subject to the exact same restrictions that apply to all Americans regardless of race,creed gender or country of national origin
 
Just turned on the television to see report on thriving website/app TINDER for hooking up, handy for Phoenix SuperBowl fans who will eagerly await satanista Katie Perry giving them the tingles as promised by her pre-game “naughty cheerleader” outfit. Anybody see the disdain and low estate of woman here with users eagerly thumb scrolling their iPhones through pics of prospective hook-ups? Anybody see the hook-up trend here as anti-marriage? Anybody see EWTN’s report on child trafficking at the SuperBowl? Anybody find all this “straight” behavior as culturally destructive as so-called “gay marriage”? Silence.

Then I flipped over to the Auschwitz documentary with Dr. Mengele doing “twin” experiments with mutilation and electro-shock. I’ve been reading up on MKULTRA, scanning FOIA documents released showing the same lineage of child torture at summer camps; and at CIA facilities in Canada spearheaded by Dr. Ewen Cameron; and note the Franklin Savings & Loan sex slaves trained via MKULTRA have been shipped to politicians in Washington, D.C. More evidence of the ongoing war on Woman & Seed. Silence.

I know there are right now Christian women being auctioned off via ISIS, and Christian children choosing to be beheaded rather than deny Christ. I know Islam’s idea of “marriage” includes the Prophet’s OK’ing child marriage; and that’s NOT covered by the media anymore than the March for Life, like so many Egyptians chiseling off the names of enemies of the state from their engraved columns. Silence.
 
“The legalization of same-sex “marriage” was about prohibiting a definition of heterosexual marriage as normative. It was about the state denying the right to speak one of the most obvious truths about human nature. It was about a conspiracy to enforce collective madness, cultivate psychological dependence and achieve totalitarian control.”

From an article by Joe Bissonette, speaking about same sex marriage in Canada

crisismagazine.com/2015/totalitarianism-sex-marriage
All the evidence is there. The truth will be replaced with a redefinition, and to make sure the redefinition is not diminished, totalitarian control is and will be the case. However, let everyone remember that each of us can and should object in a conscientious way.

Ed
 
The scope of the civil law is certainly more limited than that of the moral law, but civil law cannot contradict right reason without losing its binding force on conscience.

Every humanly-created law is legitimate** insofar as it is consistent with the natural moral law, recognized by right reason,** and insofar as it respects the inalienable rights of every person.

Laws in favor of homosexual unions are contrary to right reason because they confer legal guarantees, analogous to those granted to marriage, to unions between persons of the same sex. Given the values at stake in this question, the** State could not grant legal standing to such unions without failing in its duty to promote and defend marriage as an institution essential to the common good.**
I agree. This is a new phenomenon that does not line up with right reason.

Ed
 
Sounds like this takes us back to the Catholic argument that the main thing about what makes a marriage is if 2 persons of the opposite sex can have intercourse and procreate.
That is an argument from biology. The only way to get the next generation of human beings and to make sure they are raised by the two people responsible for bringing them into the world.

Ed
 
Same sex couples have been. Saying that homosexuals ‘may’ marry someone of the opposite sex is as hollow as saying that catholics have freedom of religion as long as that religion is Islam. 🤷

Many many cultures, including many of those existing in the current USA before christians arrived, had definitions of marriage that included same sex cultures.

Let’s not get off topic. But very briefly, the papal condemnation of Galileo makes it very clear that he was punished for holding that the earth goes around the sun.

…and Aristarchus proposed heliocentrism long before Copernicus. Who was allegedly terrified of the response of the Church and had to be jollied into publishing. And whose books were censored by the church after his death.

Those living in glass houses should not throw the first stone.
Galileo, again?

catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy

Copernicus - again?

What did Copernicus discover?

"Through mathematical examination, Copernicus came to believe that the sun is the center of the universe, and the planets, including Earth, revolve around it—contrary to popular and scientific understanding, which fixed Earth at the center of the universe. Copernicus’ manuscript circulated in scholarly circles, though it was not formally published until he was on his deathbed in 1543. But Pope Leo X (r. 1513-1521) was intrigued by his theories and showed interest in their advancement.

“For the most part, the Church raised no objections to Copernicus’ revolutionary hypothesis after his death—as long as it was represented as theory, not undisputed fact. The difficulty that the Church had with the theory is that it seemed to contradict Scripture: Joshua made the sun stand still and the Psalmist praised the earth “set firmly in place.” Most important, the theory could not be proven by current scientific technology.”

Ed
 
Just turned on the television to see report on thriving website/app TINDER for hooking up, handy for Phoenix SuperBowl fans who will eagerly await satanista Katie Perry giving them the tingles as promised by her pre-game “naughty cheerleader” outfit. Anybody see the disdain and low estate of woman here with users eagerly thumb scrolling their iPhones through pics of prospective hook-ups? Anybody see the hook-up trend here as anti-marriage? Anybody see EWTN’s report on child trafficking at the SuperBowl? Anybody find all this “straight” behavior as culturally destructive as so-called “gay marriage”? Silence.

Then I flipped over to the Auschwitz documentary with Dr. Mengele doing “twin” experiments with mutilation and electro-shock. I’ve been reading up on MKULTRA, scanning FOIA documents released showing the same lineage of child torture at summer camps; and at CIA facilities in Canada spearheaded by Dr. Ewen Cameron; and note the Franklin Savings & Loan sex slaves trained via MKULTRA have been shipped to politicians in Washington, D.C. More evidence of the ongoing war on Woman & Seed. Silence.

I know there are right now Christian women being auctioned off via ISIS, and Christian children choosing to be beheaded rather than deny Christ. I know Islam’s idea of “marriage” includes the Prophet’s OK’ing child marriage; and that’s NOT covered by the media anymore than the March for Life, like so many Egyptians chiseling off the names of enemies of the state from their engraved columns. Silence.
Auschwitz, the CIA, satanist(a), and MKULTRA sex slaves all in one post. After years of research, I think this is some kind of a record, but many of the assumptions represent appeals to emotion - a common psychological warfare tactic.

I’ve researched all of this and the truth about some of it is that it’s pure baloney, while mixing in heinous crimes. And the Muslim card. I follow conspiracy theories and some of this is on the very fringes. Places where most people would dare not go, because the facts are too horrible. Meanwhile, there are sane people who are against human trafficking, like the Catholic Church.

Contact the media. And those straights, we all know “they’re all like that.”

Ed
 
Mothers can’t marry sons,sisters can’t marry each other. if they are really,really in “love” shouldn’t we change the definition of marriage to encompass their sexual desires?

Homosexuals have always been able to marry subject to the exact same restrictions that apply to all Americans regardless of race,creed gender or country of national origin
Do you know of lots of mothers who want to marry their sons and sisters who want to marry each other? Probably not, so it’s not much of an issue is it? But there are many thousands of same-sex couples who want to marry. 🤷
 
Do you know of lots of mothers who want to marry their sons and sisters who want to marry each other? Probably not, so it’s not much of an issue is it? But there are many thousands of same-sex couples who want to marry. 🤷
If that’s true, it still doesn’t change the facts.

Ed
 
Do you know of lots of mothers who want to marry their sons and sisters who want to marry each other? Probably not, so it’s not much of an issue is it? But there are many thousands of same-sex couples who want to marry. 🤷
Here you go:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2914138/Teenager-dating-father-two-years-reveals-pair-planning-married-children.html

Besides, the reason you dont see a demand for incestual marriage is because its effectively prevented because its a taboo. Fifty years ago you could have said “you don’t see homosexual people wanting to get married” and you’d have been right, because there wasn’t any social context for it. Now that there is socially acceptable context for homosexuality, you see a demand for marriage. I’d be willing to bet that if tomorrow all social taboos on incest were removed, you’d see the demand for that kind of marriage too.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top