"Archbishop Paglia’s grave error" (Catholic Herald)

[Emeraldlady]

Meh, that mural doesn’t look at all homoerotic, or any kind of erotic, to me. It looks like a bad modern imitation of Michelangelo. With an extremely beefy Jesus.

I agree. All their faces look pained more than anything and their bodies tortured. It certainly doesn’t ‘turn me on’ in anyway.

 

[Jedothek]

:
Paglia’s words are yet another reminder that a significant number of Catholic priests no longer believe Catholic doctrine. If suicide is a mortal sin, to offer the temporary comfort of sitting passively by a person as he kills himself, when the priest believes that that suicide will shortly begin possible unending torment, is not compassion but the reverse. Any priest who believed the doctrine would, if necessary, grab the person’s wrists to prevent the act.

 

[InThePew]

when the priest believes that that suicide will shortly begin possible unending torment.

This is not Catholic teaching. As the Catechism puts it: “We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives.”

The Catechism also describes voluntary co-operation in suicide as contrary to the moral law and this, by itself, makes the Archbishop’s comments problematic to say that least. That said, moral theology is only ever neat in the classroom and on the internet! As I write this, I’m wondering if a priest should anoint somebody about to undergo assisted suicide and I’m coming down on the side of yes. While the sacrament shouldn’t be conferred on those who manifestly persist in grave sin (of course, if you want to split hairs, the person is only preparing to commit a sin at that point) at the same time we also entrust all souls to the Lord’s mercy - especially those tortured by the effects of terminal illness whose reason may well be impaired. Granted, there is the risk of giving the impression that what the person is doing is acceptable but this really comes down to how public their decision is. It might be better to anoint them immediately after the act (placing the priest in the unenviable position of having to wait and, no doubt, pray, while the person is being helped to take their own life) or simply to pray for them.

Ultimately, I’d agree with the Swiss Bishops that it is better for priests not to be present (nearby may be possible) but would also say that, when it comes to pastoral judgments like this, we need to remember that theoretical discussions are one thing, actually being in that situation is another thing altogether and so any priest faced with this situation needs to do what he considers best based on prudent pastoral judgment and, of course, prayer!

 

[Jedothek]

My source is ST II-II. Q 64. A 5:

“suicide is always a mortal sin, as being contrary to the natural law and to charity,”

which is rendered authoritative of course by Aeterni Patris.

I am not saying that InThePew is wrong, just citing my source.

 

[Emeraldlady]

As I write this, I’m wondering if a priest should anoint somebody about to undergo assisted suicide and I’m coming down on the side of yes.

I would say definitely yes as well since touched by grace, a person may decide not to go ahead with suicide.

 

[JimG]

I doubt that a priest would attend a suicide if a person intended to hang himself or shoot himself or engage in a suicide bombing.

But I once heard a retreat master say that in some cases, a person who kills himself may already have gone through his hell and his purgatory.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

If suicide is a mortal sin, to offer the temporary comfort of sitting passively by a person as he kills himself, when the priest believes that that suicide will shortly begin possible unending torment, is not compassion but the reverse. Any priest who believed the doctrine would, if necessary, grab the person’s wrists to prevent the act.

Yes, absolutely agree. We would hope the priests and we, others would do all we can to prevent the act.
Isn’t that what we would want for ourselves if in that situation, prayers and actions to save our mortal souls.

I would say definitely yes as well since touched by grace, a person may decide not to go ahead with suicide.

That would absolutely be my hope. Even if a priest didn’t annoint the person, there are prayers and rosaries and counseling that should be lifted up in hopes they decide not to go ahead.

But I once heard a retreat master say that in some cases, a person who kills himself may already have gone through his hell and his purgatory.

I would be very concerned about that thinking or spreading that thinking because we can not judge ourselves and so how would we be able to know what is to be our hell or our purgatory. It is definitely not Catholic doctrine.

Once someone has died we can pray for their soul, that God granted them final repentance.

 

[Ammi]

I would be very concerned about that thinking or spreading that thinking because we can not judge ourselves and so how would we be able to know what is to be our hell or our purgatory. It is definitely not Catholic doctrine. Once someone has died we can pray for their soul, that God granted them final repentance.

Yeah. I think purgatory can happen in this world. If the Spirit is convicting us of sin, and the anguish of our sins causes pain.

But that is NOT hell. Hell is total deprivation of God and His hope. His love burns.