Archbishop Pietro Parolin: Priest Celibacy is Open to Discussion

[JamesCaruso]

I don’t think so. There is an example of a priest in India or thereabouts who left the Roman Catholic priesthood and got married. He then became a priest in the Orthodox Church and was allowed to stay married, even though he got married after his ordination to the Roman Catholic priesthood.

Novel, but more like the exception that proves the rule.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

I don’t think so. There is an example of a priest in India or thereabouts who left the Roman Catholic priesthood and got married. He then became a priest in the Orthodox Church and was allowed to stay married, even though he got married after his ordination to the Roman Catholic priesthood.

You’re conflating the ordinations of two separate churches here. I’m pretty sure Brendan was talking about already Orthodox priests who are forbidden from marrying, not a Catholic priest who marries, then becomes Orthodox and subsequently is ordained an Orthodox priest. What he says still stands: both the Catholic and Orthodox churches forbid their own already ordained priests from marrying subsequently.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Father Jonathan Morris on Fox and Friends discussing priestly celibacy

video.foxnews.com/v/2674051659001/vatican-priest-celibacy-open-for-debate/?playlist_id=938973798001

 

[Tomdstone]

You’re conflating the ordinations of two separate churches here. I’m pretty sure Brendan was talking about already Orthodox priests who are forbidden from marrying, not a Catholic priest who marries, then becomes Orthodox and subsequently is ordained an Orthodox priest. What he says still stands: both the Catholic and Orthodox churches forbid their own already ordained priests from marrying subsequently.

The RCC looks upon the Orthodox Church as a sister Church and recognizes its Sacraments.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

The RCC looks upon the Orthodox Church as a sister Church and recognizes its Sacraments.

Nice sleight of hand. Let’s recall the situation you brought up: a Catholic priest who left the priesthood to marry, then subsequently was ordained an Orthodox priest. It doesn’t matter how the RCC looks upon the Orthodox Church, rather what matters is the inverse relationship. As I understand it the Orthodox Church does not view the RCC as a “sister church”. The Orthodox Church is THE Church. The Orthodox Church does not recognize Catholic ordination, so this Catholic priest was never a priest in the eyes of the Orthodox until he was ordained a priest by the Orthodox Church, which of course occurred after he was already married.

It is a fact that neither the Catholic nor the Orthodox churches allow for post-ordination marriage. In fact, Orthodox priests who become widowers are not allowed to remarry.

Priesthood, in all three of its degrees, according to the canonical tradition in force (canon 3 of the Council in Trullo), constitutes an impediment to marriage.

orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/misc/damaskinos_celibacy.htm

 

[Tomdstone]

The Orthodox Church does not recognize Catholic ordination,…

Who said so?
If what you say is true, how do you explain the fact that after WWII, Eastern Catholic Churches with their congregations and priests in the Ukraine were incorporated into the Eastern Orthodox Church overnight? The next day they were Orthodox Churches and their priests were recognized as Orthodox priests? (There were Catholic priests who did not go along with this and some were jailed, but I am talking about the ones who did go along with the Soviet authorities). Obviously, such cases show that the Orthodox Church in the Soviet Ukraine did recognize the validity of the Catholic sacraments and orders, contrary to what you have asserted here.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

Who said so?

The couple dozen or so Orthodox people I’ve known and spoken with (both Eastern and Oriental), including but not limited to a Greek, a Serbian, and a Romanian Eastern Orthodox priest as well as a Coptic, and Ethiopian Oriental Orthodox priest. Every single one has told me that there is no Sacramental Grace outside of their respective Orthodox Church.

Nevertheless, I know that Orthodoxy is far from homogeneous in praxis so I did some searching for a definitive answer, and it seems that Orthodoxy is not in agreement concerning the validity of Sacraments of other churches. Particularly so, it seems that the Russian Patriarch recognizes Catholic Sacraments (which would explain why Eastern Catholics are not rebaptized or rechrismated upon conversion). Since there is no universal opinion on this matter in Orthodoxy, and given that there are indeed certain Orthodox who do not recognize Catholic Sacraments, I’d assume that the case of the priest in India who married after Catholic ordination involves an Orthodox church that does not recognize Catholic ordination. I’m making this assumption based on the fact that every single Orthodox church I can find relevant information about on the Internet forbids the ordained from marrying.

Now, do you have any evidence whatsoever of an Orthodox priest, ordained as an Orthodox, marrying after ordination?

 

[Tomdstone]

The couple dozen or so Orthodox people I’ve known and spoken with (both Eastern and Oriental), including but not limited to a Greek, a Serbian, and a Romanian Eastern Orthodox priest as well as a Coptic, and Ethiopian Oriental Orthodox priest. Every single one has told me that there is no Sacramental Grace outside of their respective Orthodox Church.

Nevertheless, I know that Orthodoxy is far from homogeneous in praxis so I did some searching for a definitive answer, and it seems that Orthodoxy is not in agreement concerning the validity of Sacraments of other churches. Particularly so, it seems that the Russian Patriarch recognizes Catholic Sacraments (which would explain why Eastern Catholics are not rebaptized or rechrismated upon conversion). Since there is no universal opinion on this matter in Orthodoxy, and given that there are indeed certain Orthodox who do not recognize Catholic Sacraments, I’d assume that the case of the priest in India who married after Catholic ordination involves an Orthodox church that does not recognize Catholic ordination. I’m making this assumption based on the fact that every single Orthodox church I can find relevant information about on the Internet forbids the ordained from marrying.

Now, do you have any evidence whatsoever of an Orthodox priest, ordained as an Orthodox, marrying after ordination?

First of all, do you agree that Eastern Catholic priests served as Orthodox priests in Soviet Ukraine after WWII?
Secondly, there have been many cases of remarried Orthodox priests in Russia and in Romania. Sometimes the wife of the priest would die, but the priest had to bring up younger children so the priest was allowed to remarry but he would be sent to a rural parish in Russia.
In Romania, there have been many remarried priests, either divorced from their first wives or widowed, however, there has been an attempt recently to crack down on this practice. If you would read Decision # 1092 - Feb. 24, 2010 of the ROMANIAN PATRIARCHATE
CHANCERY OF THE HOLY SYNOD signed by President of the Holy Synod

+DANIEL

Patriarch of BOR

Secretary of the Holy Synod

+Ciprian Campineanu

Hierarchal Vicar of the Patriarchate
you would find (in part):
With brotherly love, we announce that the Holy Synod of the Romanian Orthodox Church [BOR], in its Feb. 11, 2010 working session, examined . the status of divorced priests and/or divorced and remarried priests, and this in the context of developing a unified and obligatory set of measures to be adopted in these situations across all eparchies of the Romanian Patriarchate .

.The Chancery of the Holy Synod has determined that as of 2009, there are 570 priests that are divorced priests and/or divorced and remarried priests, and only 39 have received any kind of penalty for what had transpired, which is over 3.5% of all BOR priests who are not monks; a serious situation in terms of the level of morality of priests .

. As a consequence of the discussions and suggestions regarding this issue and at the given the recommendations of the Commission regarding canonical and juridical discipline, the Holy Synod has decided:

…
3) In an attempt to strengthen the stability of the Christian family, and to further develop discipline and morality in clergy ranks, as well as diminishing the cases that negatively impact church life and activity, the following measures are approved which focus on canonical regulations, constitutional and in the form of church rules, that apply to divorced clerics, divorced and remarried clerics, as well as widowed priests having remarried:

a) Divorced clerics, divorced and remarried clerics, as well as those widowed and having remarried, are not permitted to occupy leadership positions in church administration, either at the Deanery, Eparchial or Patriarchal level;

b) Divorced clerics, divorced and remarried clerics, as well as those widowed and having remarried, are not permitted to occupy the position of Parish Priest, which is a position of leadership, in parishes where there are multiple priests. In rural parishes, in this very special case, this type of priest is kept on as Parish Priest, however he will not be promoted to superior category parishes;

etc.

 

[fdeunha]

Both marriage and priesthood are callings from God. In the Byzantine Rite Catholic Church a married individual may become a priest, and a priest may marry.

I agree with you, and I know it. But my post was replying to that one that said “Going a lifetime without sexual release is a tall order” …

“Sexual release”? That sounds linke an instinct. Celibacy can be changed, of course. But not for reasons of “sexual release” .