Archbishop Tutu - I would rather go to Hell than worship a homophobic God

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DaddyGirl said:
Oh, thank you…I was not aware of his book!

If you are talking about AIDS when you say “spread disease and death”…I’m sure you know that heterosexual acts spread this disease as well, even among married couples…even among married Catholic couples.

And, of course, whether it’s hetero or homo-sexual…you can’t get AIDS from sex if you are healthy and in a monogamous relationship–which many homosexuals and heterosexuals are.

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If you care about gay men you need to educate yourself and them of the facts. Gay men are not twice as likely to get HIV/AIDS. They are not 10 times more likely to get it. They are more than 40 times more likely to get HIV/AIDS than a man who is not violated anally by other men. Homosexual sex acts spread this incurable disease more than any other sexual practice. You are just another of the many people I have encountered online who are in the dark about the risk of this behavior, and I find that truly sad, because it is perpetuating a lethal form of ignorance. The only explanation I can think of for this widespread ignorance is that it is not politically correct to say anything that puts homosexuality in a bad light. I urge you to educate yourself and any gay men you know about this deadly and disgusting practice of anal sex between men. You can help save lives if you educate people about this.

But the main point here is that Tutu is a Christian leader - he is leading many souls into sin by his false teaching and false witness on this issue. Homosexual sex acts do not only kill the body, but can kill the soul as well.
 
JonNC said:
I wasn’t aware that he had once been a Catholic, and became Anglican. Do you have a source for that?

Jon
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From our Catechism:

“Heresy is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and Catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

So, yeah, he’s a heretic AND schismatic.
 
Good point. We are outraged when the media misrepresents our Church’s views by reducing them to a sound bite; let us not be hypocrites.
 
The problem is that even most Protestants, and in his own homeland of Africa, believe his views on homosexual sex acts are heretical, against the moral teachings of Christ, as most African Christians, whether Protestant or Catholic, understand them.

I encourage you to do your own research on Desmond Tutu and his views on homosexuality, but I will share again what I already shared in an earlier post, this quote from him just so you do not think we are making unsubstantiated claims:

“Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical – the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act; the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reasons have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?”

huffingtonpost.com/desmond-tutu/religion-homosexuality_b_874804.html
 
More to the point, the moral prohibition against homosexual activity is not a specifically Catholic doctrine; homosexual activity violates the Commandments and it violates natural law. It is actually a strawman argument that says, “Well, he’s not Catholic, so we don’t expect him to believe that anyway,” as if only Catholics are bound by the Commandments and the natural law.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Crikey.
He’s not *really *choosing hell…he’s just trying to illustrate a point.
Like when Jesus spoke in parables, remember? …
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You’re comparing Tutu to Christ? In any event, if Tutu is rejecting Christ and His teachings, he is choosing Hell.
DaddyGirl said:
…Can you not see that…he is saying something positive about God? …
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No, I don’t see that. I see that Tutu is saying something negative and insulting.
DaddyGirl said:
…Unless you yourself, Swizzle-S, are saying God is indeed homophobic?
Because only if God is homophobic would Tutu be seen as “rejecting” God…
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No, God is not homophobic.

The Church teaches that it isn’t sinful to suffer from same sex-attraction and that we should treat those so burdened with compassion. The Church makes the distinction that it is homosexual acts that are sinful. The article doesn’t really make it completely clear what Tutu supports, but it would appear that he is rejecting the teachings of the Church and embracing the sin of homosexual acts. If that is so, then he has made his choice and rejected God and His laws. If that is so, then he is saying he would rather go to the other place than Heaven to worship God.
 
It seems as though I’ve stirred up a bit of a hornet’s nest with my “heretic” comment. My last comment on this will be to say that Abp. Tutu is in serious error and that he should be careful for what he wishes. He has obviously been caught up in the insane (yes, insane) homosexual mania which has forcefully gripped the entire world, seemingly, which I believe to be the work of the Enemy, and he should be charitably corrected. That’s all.
 
westNwewaxation said:
Homosexual sex acts are evil. They spread disease and death. This Christian leader is putting his blessing upon them by his approval of homosexual sex acts which is not mentioned in the article but is what he means by “homophobia”.

This is what Tutu means by “homophobia”:
“Churches say that the expression of love in a heterosexual monogamous relationship includes the physical – the touching, embracing, kissing, the genital act; the totality of our love makes each of us grow to become increasingly godlike and compassionate. If this is so for the heterosexual, what earthly reasons have we to say that it is not the case with the homosexual?”
huffingtonpost.com/desmond-tutu/religion-homosexuality_b_874804.html
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But not unacted on SSA. There used to be celibate persons with SSA that posted in Social Justice.

They have all disappeared because of the deep derision for anyone with SSA celibate, chaste or not.

I think this is fear, phobia, hatred choose your word directed at all with SSA even people who are faithful to the church’s teaching.

I do not hate or fear all with SSA, I do not think they are all active homosexuals. And I don’t think they are all the scum of the earth.
 
Once again, as many many many have stated here: the acts are sinful.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. By encouraging people to sin you do them no favor whatever and it is the polar opposite of love.
 
Which God is he referring to exactly? The God I worship is not afraid of anybody. 🤷
 
Bishop Tutu’s remarks remind me of this guy’s remarks:
Frank Kameny, a “pioneering” homosexual activist who was honored by President Obama and his administration, says the God of the Bible is a “sinful homophobic bigot” who needs to “repent of his sinful homophobia.”
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Kameny made the assertions about the Judeo-Christian God in a letter to Peter LaBarbera of Americans For Truth About Homosexuality, October 13, 2009:
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“Your God of Leviticus (and of the whole Bible) is clearly a sinful homophobic bigot. He should repent of his sinful homophobia. He should atone for that sin. And he should seek forgiveness for the pain and suffering which his sinful homophobia has needlessly inflicted upon gay people for the past 4000 years.” wrote Kameny to LaBarbera. “It is not homosexuality which is always wrong, immoral, and sinful. It is homophobia, including the homophobia of your god himself which is wrong, immoral, and sinful. And so your god is a sinner….”
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“Homophobia” is a negative word developed to incite anger and hysteria. It is used today without thought to the fact that it has an illogical foundation.
IMO, the only response is NOT to use the word. Hopefully it will fall into disuse.
As for Bishop Tutu, he’s a South African liberal Episcopal Bishop. No great surprise in what he said.
Why should I care?
 
andrewstx said:
But not unacted on SSA. There used to be celibate persons with SSA that posted in Social Justice.

They have all disappeared because of the deep derision for anyone with SSA celibate, chaste or not.

I think this is fear, phobia, hatred choose your word directed at all with SSA even people who are faithful to the church’s teaching.

I do not hate or fear all with SSA, I do not think they are all active homosexuals. And I don’t think they are all the scum of the earth.
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The activity is the whole point! Tutu is ok with it. That’s the problem.

For the record I have SSA. I have mentioned it elsewhere, and I have never been treated with anything but respect - and a lot of patience too I might add since I can be very … forthright and blunt sometimes in adhering to Catholic teaching.

Maybe there were other reasons the SSA people took off. I’ll be blunt again: sometimes these forums can get really tedious - maybe the reason was as simple as that: they got bored. This forum is not the only, or perhaps even the best, way to deal with one’s homosexuality. I do know personally that homosexuality is a very difficult problem to deal with, and I don’t want to minimize that. But hurt people sometimes have a way of blowing their own issue out of proportion, perhaps out of personal necessity, but a mistake it remains nonetheless. So perhaps again the people posting here were oversensitive, if indeed they left because they were offended. Life has a way of working out if one keeps trying and maybe if somebody got their feelings hurt on CAF they will actually live another day and it won’t be the end of their little world.

Anyway, I just have to take exception to your post because I think “homophobia” is everywhere exaggerated - including here on this forum. I don’t speak for all homosexuals the world over; that is just my own personal opinion. But I personally do not think your criticism is valid: nobody on this forum that I have ever seen has said we were the scum of the earth, or any of the other things you said. And if they did the moderators would probably ban them.
 
I think it’s hilarious that people are arguing the semantics and morphology of the word “homophobia”. Just as “photophobia” doesn’t always imply a fear of light, but an insensitivity to light, so “homophobia” doesn’t literally imply a fear homosexuals (or fear of “the same thing”, as someone else said). -Phobia isn’t always literally fear, and it’s commonly accepted in English that “homophobia” means negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuals.

What His Grace is saying, using a little shock value, is that God doesn’t have anything against gay people. Simple as that! And I applaud him.
 
gnosisofthomas said:
…What His Grace is saying, using a little shock value, is that God doesn’t have anything against gay people. Simple as that! And I applaud him.
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That is already known. God loves each of us. However, He clearly states through the teachings of His Church that homosexual acts are sinful.
 
gnosisofthomas said:
I’m part of His Church too, and we don’t believe that.
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It appears that you and Tutu are in agreement in your belief and rejection of the teachings of the Catholic Church. Invincible ignorance may be a factor in your belief, but perhaps you should educate yourself on the basis for the teachings of the Church. Then, if you still reject the teachings, God sees into your heart, mind and soul and His perfect mercy and perfect justice will prevail.
 
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