Archbishop Viganò defends Virgin Mary in response to new remarks by Pope |000

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My understanding of Mary as the Co-Redemptrix was that Jesus is the head and Mary is the neck to the body in all graces flow from Jesus through her. If it was not for her a yes then we would have no Incarnation, no Savior.
No Mary = no baby Jesus

Anyway here are Some thoughts

www.lifesitenews.com

Abp Viganò defends Virgin Mary in response to new remarks by Pope - LifeSite

'Not a day passes: from the most exalted throne the Supreme Pontiff proceeds to dismantle the See of Peter,' says the archbishop.
www.lifesitenews.com www.lifesitenews.com

Abp Viganò defends Virgin Mary in response to new remarks by Pope | News | LifeSite
 
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Lifesite and Vigano one again prove that they have no interest in contributing anything constructive.

What the Pope said about the idea of co-redemptrix is true and perfectly in line with Pope Benedict. I looked for any evidence of Vigano putting the same criticism to Pope Benedict and it does not exist, which shows that Vigano is targeting Pope Francis personally.

Bravo Pope Francis making this teaching and the Church’s position on co-redemptrix clear.

No Jesus, no Mary…
 
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All this contention is sad and pointless.
Mary does not need defense against the Pope’s remarks.
Our faith in Christ and his Church is so desperately weak in these times…
 
Archbishop Vigano responds to Pope Francis on the role of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

www.lifesitenews.com

Abp Viganò defends Virgin Mary in response to new remarks by Pope - LifeSite

'Not a day passes: from the most exalted throne the Supreme Pontiff proceeds to dismantle the See of Peter,' says the archbishop.
www.lifesitenews.com www.lifesitenews.com

“Not a day passes: from the most exalted throne the Supreme Pontiff proceeds to dismantle the See of Peter, using and abusing its supreme authority, not to confess but to deny; not to confirm but to mislead; not to unite but to divide; not to build but to demolish. Material heresies, formal heresies, idolatry, superficiality of every kind” writes Vigano.
This article appears in lifesitenews.
 
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Except it’s not a dogma of the Church, just a pious opinion of some Catholics.

A garbage story, even by LifeSite standards.
 
@JohnR77 Thank you very much. There is much written about Our Lady in Enc. Redemptoris mater, Mar., 1987 by our beloved Saint John Paul II. “His Mother cooperated from the first instant with the Redemption oriented plan of the Incarnation”. And another priest wrote, “Mary is the co-redeemer par excellence, and every woman is called to follow her in this respect” Rev. JC …“As the Council has taught in Vatican II, Lumen gentium”. #62
Thanks again…hope folks send a little donation to that organization…sounds like they need it. Thanks again for the article…Adios for the eve.
 
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Adamek said:
“Not a day passes: from the most exalted throne the Supreme Pontiff proceeds to dismantle the See of Peter, using and abusing its supreme authority, not to confess but to deny; not to confirm but to mislead; not to unite but to divide; not to build but to demolish. Material heresies, formal heresies, idolatry, superficiality of every kind” writes Vigano.
This article appears in lifesitenews.
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If an Archbishop wrote that, you’d have to admit it is a newsworthy story?
 
My goodness, the venom in some comments regarding this article, certainly indicates that Lifesite news is over the target and rattling some cages again (to mix metaphors.)
 
Well, there is another thread on the matter of the title of Co-Redemptrix.

Going back to the late part of the middle ages, the Franciscans wanted the title, and the Dominicans opposed it. I don’t know how much careful research has been done on the matter; there appears to have been some commentary by Pius XII on it; and no Pope since then has proposed giveng her the title officially. During Vatican II, during one of the yearly breaks, the Servites circulated some information which in part pt forward the title; it was clearly not part of any of the documents nor their preliminary drafts. I can’t trace down the comment by Pope Benedict, but my understanding is that he was definitely against the use of the title, so I am not sure what all the fluff is about, other than perhaps Archbishop Vigano possibly stirring the pot; or Life Site News taking his comments and expanding on them.
 
Well to be fair, Pope Francis does have an “odd” understanding of matters relating to the Virgin Mary.

On Dec. 21, 2018, Francis received the employees of the Holy See and Vatican City State at the Paul VI audience hall and, referring to the Nativity scene set up there, said:

“Allora, chi è felice nel presepe? La Madonna e San Giuseppe sono pieni di gioia: guardano il Bambino Gesù e sono felici perché, dopo mille preoccupazioni, hanno accolto questo Regalo di Dio, con tanta fede e tanto amore. Sono “straripanti” di santità e quindi di gioia. E voi mi direte: per forza! Sono la Madonna e San Giuseppe! Sì, ma non pensiamo che per loro sia stato facile: santi non si nasce, si diventa, e questo vale anche per loro.”

An official Holy See translation renders this as:

“So who is happy in the Nativity scene? Our Lady and Saint Joseph are full of joy: they look at the Child Jesus and they are happy because, after a thousand worries, they have accepted this gift of God, with so much faith and so much love. They are “overflowing” with holiness and therefore with joy. And you will tell me: of course! They are Our Lady and Saint Joseph! Yes, but let us not think it was easy for them: saints are not born, they become thus, and this is true for them too.”

Official complete translation of the whole speech below:

http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...a-francesco_20181221_dipendenti-vaticani.html

Some took the final sentence to indicate denial of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady as defined by Pope Pius 1X in 1854, although the establishment Catholic Press (certainly in the English speaking world) seems to have tried to ignore this and allow it to go unnoticed somewhat, as is often the case at the moment.

The video of the address [is available here](

(the paragraph quoted above begins at the 20:35 min mark).
 
IanM said:
Well to be fair, Pope Francis does have an “odd” understanding of matters relating to the Virgin Mary.
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This comments is a bit perplexing. The Holy Father has a perfectly orthodox devotion to Mary. If you are going to cast such an accusation, you should probably back it up with source material.
IanM said:
Some took the final sentence to indicate denial of the dogma of the Immaculate Conception of Our Lady as defined by Pope Pius 1X in 1854,
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I don’t see this at all. You would have to give the Pope’s comments the most negative interpretation possible to come to this conclusion… which betrays our obligation as Catholics to assume positive intent, not look for stretch interpretations that you can use to indict the Pope.

The Pope is absolutely right about Mary and Joseph earning their sainthood. Remember, Adam and Eve were created without original sin, just like Mary. They were all given free choice and all could have sinned. Mary chose not to… and said yes to God… she was not born a saint, she was made one over her lifetime.
 
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CTBcin said:
Except it’s not a dogma of the Church, just a pious opinion of some Catholics.

A garbage story, even by LifeSite standards.
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It’s not dogma, but it is doctrine. It’s more than just a pious opinion.

I think I understand what the Pope meant (and agree that the time is not right to dogmatically define), but he should have simply said something like “we currently have no reason to dogmatically define this doctrine,” or something to that effect.

Speaking off the cuff is not this Pope’s strong suit.
 
otjm said:
so I am not sure what all the fluff is about, other than perhaps Archbishop Vigano possibly stirring the pot;
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I think it has to do with the Pope’s word choice of “foolishness”
 
phil19034 said:
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CTBcin:
Except it’s not a dogma of the Church, just a pious opinion of some Catholics.

A garbage story, even by LifeSite standards.
Click to expand...
It’s not dogma, but it is doctrine. It’s more than just a pious opinion.

I think I understand what the Pope meant (and agree that the time is not right to dogmatically define), but he should have simply said something like “we currently have no reason to dogmatically define this doctrine,” or something to that effect.

Speaking off the cuff is not this Pope’s strong suit.
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I think all of us, liberal and conservative, can endorse this part bolded.
 
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Sanctity is possible. It is possible. This is now my sixth Christmas as Bishop of Rome, and I must say that I have known several saints who work here. Saints who live their Christian life well, and if they do something bad they apologize. But they go ahead, with the family. One can live in this way. It is a grace, and it is so beautiful. Usually they are people who are not show off; simple, modest people, but who do so much good in their work and in relationships with others. And they are joyful people; not because they always laugh, no, but because they have a great serenity inside and know how to transmit it to others. And where does that serenity come from? Always from him, Jesus, the God-with-us. He is the source of our joy, both personal and family, both at work.
Pope Francis Address to the employees of the Holy See
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Thank you for the link.

Pope Francis began this talk by referring to a 93 year old great-grandmother who was present with her daughter, grandchildren and greatgrandchildren. The whole talk was about the joy of life, of family and of work, that he saw in this family.

Those who see a denial of the Immaculate Conception need to relearn the lessons of sanctity. I think it was St Augustine who described sanctity with a thmble and a teacup. (Those are translations of his words lol) Saints are not all one size, but they are all filled with God’s Spirit. In some cases, that is a thimbleful, in others a teacupful, but in both cases they are full. The greatest saints are those who strive to hold more and more, always delighting in the gifts of God.

The greatest Saint was filled with the Holy Spirit from the first moment of her conception. And constantly she sought more of God. She went from carrying less than a thimbleful to carrying oceans of love. The choices she made were all in line with being full with the Spirit, but each choice opened her up to more. Her heart became larger, it grew more than three sizes, it grew hundreds and thousands of sizes larger. In that way her choices made her the saint she became, filled with the Holy Spirit to the utmost capacity.
 
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