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Archbishops Dolan, Listecki reluctant to deny Communion to pro-abortion politicians [CWN]
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I
Inhimthroughher
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He is wrong. From the article he says that he will follow the direction of Benedict
"The prelate acknowledged that some of his fellow bishops might favor such a ban, but Dolan said he does not, preferring to follow the lead of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who said it was better to try to persuade them than to impose sanctions.”
Yet Benedict says that communion should be denied.
". When “these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible,” and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it” (cf. Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts Declaration “Holy Communion and Divorced, Civilly Remarried Catholics” [2002], nos. 3-4). This decision, properly speaking, is not a sanction or a penalty. Nor is the minister of Holy Communion passing judgment on the person’s subjective guilt, but rather is reacting to the person’s public unworthiness to receive Holy Communion due to an objective situation of sin.
He is either being dishonest or is misinformed. He is an Archbishop, and probably future Cardinal, he should know this. This is a popular and important subject. I hope he follws Rome’s lead instead of his own.
"The prelate acknowledged that some of his fellow bishops might favor such a ban, but Dolan said he does not, preferring to follow the lead of Popes John Paul II and Benedict XVI, who said it was better to try to persuade them than to impose sanctions.”
Yet Benedict says that communion should be denied.
". When “these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible,” and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it” (cf. Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts Declaration “Holy Communion and Divorced, Civilly Remarried Catholics” [2002], nos. 3-4). This decision, properly speaking, is not a sanction or a penalty. Nor is the minister of Holy Communion passing judgment on the person’s subjective guilt, but rather is reacting to the person’s public unworthiness to receive Holy Communion due to an objective situation of sin.
He is either being dishonest or is misinformed. He is an Archbishop, and probably future Cardinal, he should know this. This is a popular and important subject. I hope he follws Rome’s lead instead of his own.
W
wisdomseeker
Guest
Bishop Dolan. i have watched him on EWTN, i didnt like his attitude. he likes to laugh a lot. it is also my impression that he is one of those who wants to make friends. these kind of people who are more interested in being friends with everybody, it is hardly the kind to uphold the Truth. yet, i may be wrong about him. time will tell.
T
TMC
Guest
The Archbishops are following the Pope’s lead on this issue. When he was head of the CDF, Pope Benedict laid out the conditions under which communion can be denied (in a private letter, portions of which were later leaked to the press), but the decision to do so, or not, is a pastoral decision within each bishop’s authority. Clearly the Pope believes that deny communion not always appropriate, as it has been widely reportedly that Pope Benedict has himself administered communion to some prominent pro-abortion politicians, including the mayor of Rome, the former prime minister of Italy, and Tony Blair.
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Inhimthroughher
Guest
Wrong. Maybe you missed this part from his letter.The Archbishops are following the Pope’s lead on this issue. When he was head of the CDF, Pope Benedict laid out the conditions under which communion can be denied (in a private letter, portions of which were later leaked to the press), but the decision to do so, or not, is a pastoral decision within each bishop’s authority. Clearly the Pope believes that deny communion not always appropriate, as it has been widely reportedly that Pope Benedict has himself administered communion to some prominent pro-abortion politicians, including the mayor of Rome, the former prime minister of Italy, and Tony Blair.
". When “these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible,” and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it”
Must does not mean may or may not. It is pretty clear.
T
TMC
Guest
If I am wrong, why have the bishops said that this issue is up to each bishop to decide? Why has the Pope himself decided to give communion to pro-abortion politicians? Does he not understand his own guidance?Wrong. Maybe you missed this part from his letter.
". When “these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible,” and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it”
Must does not mean may or may not. It is pretty clear.
R
rep140
Guest
Clearly the Pope believes that deny communion not always appropriate, as it has been widely reportedly that Pope Benedict has himself administered communion to some prominent pro-abortion politicians, including the mayor of Rome, the former prime minister of Italy, and Tony Blair.
If I am not mistaken JP II gave the Eucharist to Tony Blair while the latter was still a Church of England member and was head of a party that was big on abortion, same sex marriage, and adoption by gay couples. Apparently these are bigger issues in North America than across the pond.
If I am not mistaken JP II gave the Eucharist to Tony Blair while the latter was still a Church of England member and was head of a party that was big on abortion, same sex marriage, and adoption by gay couples. Apparently these are bigger issues in North America than across the pond.
B
Badaliyyah
Guest
While I agree with the basic thrust of TMC and Rep, I doubt very seriously that JP2 gave the Eucharist to Tony Blair prior to his reception into the Catholic Church. Do you have a source for that?Clearly the Pope believes that deny communion not always appropriate, as it has been widely reportedly that Pope Benedict has himself administered communion to some prominent pro-abortion politicians, including the mayor of Rome, the former prime minister of Italy, and Tony Blair.
If I am not mistaken JP II gave the Eucharist to Tony Blair while the latter was still a Church of England member and was head of a party that was big on abortion, same sex marriage, and adoption by gay couples. Apparently these are bigger issues in North America than across the pond.
In any case, I would guess the bishops understand the standards for when someone should and should not be denied communion better than any of us do, and take the burden of such decisions far more seriously than those with axes to grind against various politicians. Moreover the practice of B16, on this issue, seems to be in keeping with that of the American bishops, nor has he, at least as of yet, chastised the American bishops for their stance on this.
I would suggest that your local bishop be given more respect and deference for the weighty responsibilities that are laid on his shoulders. It is easy to sit at home and rail about what you would do when you do not have the pastoral responsibilities that these men bear.
These attacks on the bishops, many, if not most, of which come from those of us outside their local jurisdictions, are, it seems to me, the product of very Protestant attitudes and a lack of sympathy for the, largely, local nature of Catholic governance. These types of attacks on Church by its own members, this type of criticism and angry dissent, are engaged in much too lightly and flippantly by all sides.
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Inhimthroughher
Guest
You still have not explained this writtten directive he made. This is his statement.
". When “these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible,” and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it”
Where is your proof of him thinking or doing otherwise?
". When “these precautionary measures have not had their effect or in which they were not possible,” and the person in question, with obstinate persistence, still presents himself to receive the Holy Eucharist, “the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it”
Where is your proof of him thinking or doing otherwise?
R
rep140
Guest
I would suggest that your local bishop be given more respect and deference for the weighty responsibilities that are laid on his shoulders. It is easy to sit at home and rail about what you would do when you do not have the pastoral responsibilities that these men bear.
I agree. I don’t exactly recall where I saw the JP II and Blair thing, but I think it may have been while browsing Cheri Blair’s book in Barnes and Noble. I think this also came up for discussion in this forum some time ago.
I agree. I don’t exactly recall where I saw the JP II and Blair thing, but I think it may have been while browsing Cheri Blair’s book in Barnes and Noble. I think this also came up for discussion in this forum some time ago.
I
Inhimthroughher
Guest
That may be your opinion but that is all that it is. Ratzinger, now, Pope Benedict XVI says differently. I would suggest that the Vicor of Christ be given more respect and deference for the weighty responsibiulities that are laid on his shoulders.I would suggest that your local bishop be given more respect and deference for the weighty responsibilities that are laid on his shoulders. It is easy to sit at home and rail about what you would do when you do not have the pastoral responsibilities that these men bear…
His quote is
“the minister of Holy Communion must refuse to distribute it”
This is not left up to individual bishops.
Are you with the Pope or not? Are you with Peter or not?
U
unafraid
Guest
Archbishop Dolan is not what I had hoped for in a post-sex scandal prelate in New York. He seemes out of his depth and lacks the gravity required of his office during this period of renewal and re-affirmation. He is convivial and certainly a man of the world, but what a sign to the faithful it would have been to have seen a young doctrinaire “Prince of the Church”, ala a young Karol Wojtyla appointed this vital post. This nation seems eerily doomed. Perhaps America is not as important in God’s plans as we arrogantly assume it is. Perhaps the flag we wave is one of dishonor in the eyes of the Lord. Maybe Rush Limbaugh is wrong. Who really knows? I have served both God and Country in my lifetime, but I get the sense that all is not what it seems. I pray that God helps us learn to serve Him better.
K
KC91
Guest
One has to understand Archbishop Dolan’s character - he is a pastoral man. When I went to the US for holiday I went to his mass at St Patrick’s and he seemed to be very popular so what some people say may not be reflective of the opinion of New York Catholics. So I don’t blame him for adopting this attitude.
But if I was a Bishop I would excommunicate them.
But if I was a Bishop I would excommunicate them.
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