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Lost_Sheep
Guest
No, I would determine which ones contained the dog poop and discard them. Duh.
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China123
Guest
Agreed! It is very easy to slide into the culture at large. It is especially easy when you are ridiculed and teased on public forums (FB mostly). But I don’t care anymore. People can make fun all they want. I don’t think the culture at large thinks much about anything today except having fun NOW and being cool. Just my 2 cents.
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mikekle
Guest
Well, then theres no point in doing the challenge then…I mean, why dump ice all over you if you are just going to donate to a different group?
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mikekle
Guest
You are right, way too many people today have the wrong priorities, and is sad to think when the time comes, they will easily be fooled into loosing their soul for good! As I truly think when the antichrist comes, ‘they’ (he) will have their plan well thought out, they know they cant come in all brutal and evil, they recognize they will have to win over alot of people quickly, I think they will do this using popular culture somehow, it will be suddenly ‘cool’ and hip’, to be on the side of the antichrist, and then when its too late, all those people will recognize what they have signed up for, but will be too late then!
Agreed! It is very easy to slide into the culture at large. It is especially easy when you are ridiculed and teased on public forums (FB mostly). But I don’t care anymore. People can make fun all they want. I don’t think the culture at large thinks much about anything today except having fun NOW and being cool. Just my 2 cents.
Things like this today, are just leading up to the big finale imo, they are doing things slowly and methodically, over time, they are swaying peoples views and opinions, until they get to the point where they literally despise God…the antichrist and satan are very very smart, they know how to sway and influence people.
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Scottgun
Guest
You are misunderstanding the analogy. All of the cookies have some excrement in them. Or put it this way: add a spoonful of wine to a bottle of sewage, it’s still a bottle of sewage, but add a spoonful of sewage to a bottle of wine, and you now have bottle of sewage.
The AOC didn’t just tell people not to give money, they recommended giving it to the John Paul II Medical Research Institute, which conducts nondestructive adult stem cell research.
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YoungTradCath
Guest
?? I seriously doubt ISIL seriously spends ALL day killing Christians.
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Bruised_Reed
Guest
To raise awareness of the disease which im very pleased and surprised to see happening. And the ALS Association isn’t the only organization to donate to; Matt Lauer of the Today Show made a donation to a hospice organization.
And the original challange was a bucket of ice water dunped over the head or a donation. That many people are doing both is just gravy.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
So let’s say 95% of the ALS’s research does not involve embryonic stem cells and on 5% of their research does. Would you be happy if the whole organization was shut down entirely because of that 5%?
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Scottgun
Guest
Yes, because there exists research organizations that don’t formally cooperate with evil and thus, are more deserving of funding.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
More deserving? In whose opinion besides yours?
Tell me, do you patronize businesses that provide health insurance for birth control and/or abortions, or offer benefits for same-sex partners? I’ll bet you do and you don’t even realize it.
Are your friends and associates squeaky clean and sin-free? Or for that matter, are you? First stone and all that.
Additionally, from what I understand, their research program using ESC’s is privately and separately funded and will soon be coming to a conclusion. General donations do not support ESC research.
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Holly3278
Guest
My bishop, Bishop Charles Thompson has also voiced concerns about the ALS Association Ice Bucket Challenge. He said that they are donating to an organization which has embryonic stem cell research as one of it’s studies. He also voiced concerns over wasting clean water when many people throughout the world do not have clean water.
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Lost_Sheep
Guest
People worry too much. The amount of water “wasted” in these ice bucket challenges is just a drop in the ocean (pun noted) and would not even begin to solve the water shortages of third world countries.
Now if your bishop wants to start a campaign to solve their water problems he is certainly free to do so.
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manualman
Guest
Dr. Jack Kevorkian didn’t kill all his patients either. Feel better about picking him as your surgeon now?
It turns out that even just a little bit of killing makes one a bad doctor (or foundation)!
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J_Peterson
Guest
How is this any different than a mother dontating her child’s body, who died of natural causes, to science? Does the cause of death affect the morality of donating a body to science?
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Scottgun
Guest
Your misundertandings are legion.
Embryonic stem-cell research is evil. Period. Not just my opinion, it’s the teaching of the Church and can be upheld by reason and simple apprehension. So you need to make up your mind. Is your objection that we shouldn’t withhold donations because ESC is only a small part of what they do, or is it that ESC isn’t really evil? All cards on the table please.
Embryonic stem-cell research is evil. Period. Not just my opinion, it’s the teaching of the Church and can be upheld by reason and simple apprehension. So you need to make up your mind. Is your objection that we shouldn’t withhold donations because ESC is only a small part of what they do, or is it that ESC isn’t really evil? All cards on the table please.
In a case where someone support something evil and didn’t know it, that would be an example of remote material cooperation with evil, which, while not good, would not impute any culpability to the supporter. We don’t have a duty to absolutely avoid any and all remote material cooperation possible. We do have duty to avoid in as far as it is reasonably possible to do so, especially when we become aware of it.
Irrelevant. Imagine someone saying, “give me some money so I can pay this trigger man to rub out my neighbor. Trust me, he’s a bad man and the world will benefit from his removal.” I of course refuse and the guy then tells you, “What?! You think you are so squeaky clean and sin-free?” I remember a similar dialog from Days of Wine and Roses when a recovering alcoholic refuses to get drunk with his alcoholic wife.
Sub-contracting out evil doesn’t help the case. Morally, it’s no different from extraordinary rendition. Also, money is fungible. If I give money to a company that provides medicine for poor countries in one department, but promotes nun-beating in another, it’s no good for me to say, “Well, I’ll give you money for the medicine, but don’t use it for nun-beating.” supporting one is supporting the other.
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manualman
Guest
There were no natural causes involved in embryonic stem cell research. Your analogy would be closer to the truth if the mother in question deliberately got pregnant, birthed the child, killed him and THEN donated the body to science - and intentionally did all those things to get to the point where the body was donated. You good with that?
In any case, it’s not like it’s all THAT much work to find someone to donate to that ONLY does good work, not both good work and gruesome atrocities.
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J_Peterson
Guest
There’s no need for an analogy here. A woman gets pregnant, has an abortion at 8 weeks, decides to donate the fetus for research. The only moral question here is if it’s okay for a mother to donate her child’s body if she was the one that put it to death and if it’s moral to use that body for research. I don’t think I have an issue here with the exeption of the cause of death, but that would have happened even if there was no such thing as embryonic stem cell research.
In any case, the ALS Association isn’t promoting abortion. In fact, from what I’ve seen they haven’t even funded that one project that uses ESC’s because funding is coming from elsewhere.
As far as being okay with it, if a loved one could benefit from this type of research I’d take advantage of it in a second.
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J_Peterson
Guest
A mother can donate her child’s body when they die since a child can’t consent, even after birth. If the child dies from natural causes, say a miscarrage, would it be okay to use the body for stem cell research? If not, then why?
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duckbooklady
Guest
Can anyone point me towards a graphic or other data that verifies or supports the claim that embryonic stem cells have not even been found to treat or cure illness. If it would provide acomparison to other stem cells and the medical gains made by those, that would be great. I would like to use such information in my defense of the church.
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J_Peterson
Guest
I’m speaking specifically about the ALS Association. The lifenews article I posted earlier stated the following:
This is different from a widow becuase the woman that donated didn’t benefit from the donation. I’ll admit is a very grey area but I think that you can donate to the ALS Association without guilt.
The woman didn’t sell the fetus and she didn’t get an abortion so that she can donate it. She had reasons that only she knows. The money donated to ALS Association will not fund this research because it’s being funded by NeuralStem Inc.
This is different from a widow becuase the woman that donated didn’t benefit from the donation. I’ll admit is a very grey area but I think that you can donate to the ALS Association without guilt.
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