Archdiocese of New York tells 31 Catholic schools they face closure, have until January to appeal

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There can be no serious discussion with you. I have to wonder why you would dodge saying exactly what you do at the Catholic school; you could be a teacher, you could be the principal, you could be the secretary, you could be the janitor. I cannot understand why you won’t say what you do. Nevertheless, if you are in a Catholic H.S., how in the world can you imagine that Catholic school closings do not directly affect you and the students there?
 
There can be no serious discussion with you. I have to wonder why you would dodge saying exactly what you do at the Catholic school; you could be a teacher, you could be the principal, you could be the secretary, you could be the janitor. I cannot understand why you won’t say what you do. Nevertheless, if you are in a Catholic H.S., how in the world can you imagine that Catholic school closings do not directly affect you and the students there?
I am sorry, I did not know you wanted me to get so detailed. I teach (among other things). I do not see what my “job” is any real business of you or how that can affect what is going on in a diocese across the country.

Again, if there is no money to keep the schools open and enrollment is not there to susitain it I do not see where the Archbishop is wrong for closing down some schools. This will increase enrollment and money to those that are kept open.

The closing of Catholic Schools over 2000 miles away does not affect my school at all as we are not receive any students from there. That is how it does not affect me.
 
Well, as soon as you can figure out how to raise an extra $12 million dollars then we can talk.
I was watching part of the USCCB conf. on tv a couple days ago and the Bishop of San Diego said that he had paid out “$80 some million” for abuse settlements thus far and still had to pay off “some $50 million more”. There’s plenty of money that can (and should be) earmarked for SCHOOLS. Please note he said this in protest to what I will call a proposed 3% “tax increase” to each Bishop - the money to go to the USCCB.
 
The closing of Catholic Schools over 2000 miles away does not affect my school at all as we are not receive any students from there. That is how it does not affect me.
Your words stun me. I cannot understand how a teaching Brother in a Catholic school can feel so disconnected from the larger picture. How can the health of the Catholic school system not be a priority for you? Is this what you have been taught?

My first suggestion as to what you can do is to educate yourself regarding the agendas in the Church. You cannot work in isolation. By saying it does not affect you, you remind me of the people in Germany who, as Hitler’s men marched from town to town, said “that’s not my town”. Then one day, they came to their town.

I also suggest that you do some serious meditation on the Body of Christ and the Communion of Saints. After that, there are several practical things you can do, but you must get the big picture first.
 
Your words stun me. I cannot understand how a teaching Brother in a Catholic school can feel so disconnected from the larger picture. How can the health of the Catholic school system not be a priority for you? Is this what you have been taught?
The health of the Catholic school system is a priority. How can we run schools that we can not afford? If there is no money to run the school how do we keep it open?
My first suggestion as to what you can do is to educate yourself regarding the agendas in the Church. You cannot work in isolation. By saying it does not affect you, you remind me of the people in Germany who, as Hitler’s men marched from town to town, said “that’s not my town”. Then one day, they came to their town.
This is a red herring.

Also offensive to compare me to Hitler’s men.

I believe that this is something that we can have disagreements on how things should be done to take care of it.

If a school can not afford to run itself and enrollment is down then maybe it should close and its enrollment move to one of the schools that is not in financial difficulty.
I also suggest that you do some serious meditation on the Body of Christ and the Communion of Saints. After that, there are several practical things you can do, but you must get the big picture first.
I suggest that you not treat me in such a manner. Remember, respect.

After the multiple disrespect you have shown me I am adding you to the ignore list.

Good Day.
 
This is probably a good thing. Catholic schools don’t turn kids into informed faithful Catholics.
 
No, I think he’s got it completely. We’ve got people here at CAF questioning everything the bishop’s do, and they don’t even show proper respect. How do we expect the bishops to get anything done when even the most orthodox Catholics won’t even support them?

And did you send off this suggestion to Archbishop Dolan, or would you rather just rant on a backwater website?

Same thing. Did you actually send the suggestion to Archbishop Dolan? There seems to be a lot of armchair pseudo-bishops around here.
Curlycool, I’m with you 100%. 👍

I consider it a great grace for the Church that the bishops are bishops and their critics are not. 😛

Charity demands that we give people (and our bishops especially) the benefit of the doubt. Does anyone here have first-hand knowledge of what it takes to financially run a Catholic school? A diocese? Millionnaire benefactors are not going to come out of the woodwork based on wishful thinking and a well-written proposal.

No bishop makes these decisions casually about closing parishes or schools. Why do we assume that our bishops are trying to bring the Church down from the inside and/or tick off as many lay people as they possibly can? I’m pretty sure that Archbishop Dolan is a little more informed on the financial solvency of the schools in question than anyone here.

I assume that everyone here tithes and donates generously (and regularly) to their local Catholic schools. That is what will make the difference. We can’t expect our bishops to do all the work themselves.
 
I was watching part of the USCCB conf. on tv a couple days ago and the Bishop of San Diego said that he had paid out “$80 some million” for abuse settlements thus far and still had to pay off “some $50 million more”. There’s plenty of money that can (and should be) earmarked for SCHOOLS.
No, that money is already earmarked. Also, that is either a legal settlement or a court ordered settlement, and as far as I know those will have timelines attached to them. You have to pay the $20 million this year for example, you can’t just take some of that and transfer it to the schools. At that point, your in breach of contract or breaching a court-order, which gets you nothing more than another round of charges, fines, lawsuits, and settlements. Then you have even less money than before.

There’s no point in complaining about settlement money. That’s already there and done. You can try and ask the court for an extension, but I have a feeling that you won’t get it. So, you have to pay it.
Your words stun me. I cannot understand how a teaching Brother in a Catholic school can feel so disconnected from the larger picture. How can the health of the Catholic school system not be a priority for you? Is this what you have been taught?
You still can’t ignore reality and economics and live in a fantasy world. The bigger picture is that there’s no money for the schools, therefore they have to be closed.
My first suggestion as to what you can do is to educate yourself regarding the agendas in the Church. You cannot work in isolation. By saying it does not affect you, you remind me of the people in Germany who, as Hitler’s men marched from town to town, said “that’s not my town”. Then one day, they came to their town.
By Goodwin’s Law, you’ve now lost the argument.

You’ve also compared a Religious Brother directly to Nazi-sypathysers, which also puts you in violation of forum rules (which Brother David posted a page back).
I consider it a great grace for the Church that the bishops are bishops and their critics are not. 😛
Definitely.
I assume that everyone here tithes and donates generously (and regularly) to their local Catholic schools. That is what will make the difference. We can’t expect our bishops to do all the work themselves.
Exactly. Look, I support Catholics schools but I don’t live in NY (I don’t even live in the US). I’m sorry, but I’m not about to donate money. I’m not about to tell an Archbishop halfway across the continent how to run his diocese either (I’d never ever think about telling my archbishop how to run his diocese, or even tell the priests at the Catholic college here how to run it).

Brother David doesn’t live in NY. He’s a religious brother, which means that right now he’s right where he’s suppose to be. Who knows if his order even has a presence in NY. He’s in a school teaching right now, and that’s where his focus should be.
We don’t expect Benedictines to abandon their monasteries to serve the laity, nor do we expect the Franciscan Missionaries of the Eternal Word to get out and staff parishes 3 states away. They’re doing their work for the Church in whatever way they can, but they can’t fix all the ills of the world.

Brother David is simply recognizing the facts. There’s no point in moaning and yelling and complaining about it. This has been way over stated too; it’s not like they’re closing the entire system. A couple schools are closing so that the ones that are being kept can be maintained to a better level. It’s pretty much analogues to the closing of parishes in that we have too many, they’re underused and need massive maintenance. That’s just life, and since so many people here adore the free market system I’ll add that “It’s just good business”.
 
You’ve also compared a Religious Brother directly to Nazi-sypathysers, which also puts you in violation of forum rules (which Brother David posted a page back).
Go back and read my post. I did not compare Brother to Hitler’s men. I was speaking of the people in other towns who said “I don’t have to do anything because it’s not my town.” When the day came that it was their town, there was no one left to defend them AGAINST Hitler’s men - NOT that they were Hitler’s men.
 
When I entered my parochial school, the building was exactly two weeks old. Now, I know it needs some repairs, but the bishop has it on the endangered list? I don’t know why – it has always been overcrowded.
 
30 plus Catholic schools are closing down and you’re worried how to address an Archbishop? I think you’ve missed the point here…🤷
How to address the Archbishop may not be the main point here but that doesnt mean it’s not a valid point. The fact that 31 schools are closing is not a reason not to address the Archbishop the right way, it’s respect & common courtesy.
 
Your words stun me. I cannot understand how a teaching Brother in a Catholic school can feel so disconnected from the larger picture. How can the health of the Catholic school system not be a priority for you? Is this what you have been taught?

My first suggestion as to what you can do is to educate yourself regarding the agendas in the Church. You cannot work in isolation. By saying it does not affect you, you remind me of the people in Germany who, as Hitler’s men marched from town to town, said “that’s not my town”. Then one day, they came to their town.

Germany wasn’t Nazified by Hitler’s ‘men’ marching from town to town. What sort of fairy tale books have you been brought up on?

I also suggest that you do some serious meditation on the Body of Christ and the Communion of Saints. After that, there are several practical things you can do, but you must get the big picture first.

**Are you out of your mind. Notice, that’s not punctuated as a question, because its not one. Questions are asked when answers are not immediately apparent.

If you are just the hivemind of the RCC–with a list of tasks that will maximize our efficiency in spreading God’s Word to the nether reaches of the globe–please, tell us what ‘practical things’ we can do.

But since you aren’t, I suggest you check your tone before telling someone who has given his entire life to our Lord’s service that he needs to improve his spiritual state.
**
 
Here in America, we have the habit of referring to people by their last names. Our President is called Obama; in Catholic press and media, the Pope is referred to as Benedict, Pope John Paul II is referred to as JP2, etc. It’s a matter of speaking, not disrespect. And isn’t it common these days for Fr. Joe to be Fr. Joe, not Fr. “last name”?

In the Church, we have a habit of treating clergymen, and men who have given their lives to God’s service as Brother has, with respect. Presumably, you’re here because you’re a Catholic, not an American. So abide by the Church’s standards.

You’re clearly wrong, so apologize and admit your mistake. We won’t think less of you for it; on the other hand if you persist…

Ok, now answer my question. What’s your job?

**Your tone is ridiculously peremptory. Brother was very charitable to tell you his profession and occupation. I don’t believe that you’re a very successful person in life, so let me give you a tip: people generally don’t get very far by treating others the way you do. **
 
Tell me your job and I’ll tell you what you can do.
OK, I’ll give this a shot:

I’m currently a student (Philosophy and Engineering), but when I’m not getting As, I have done the following:

Demolition Worker
Ranch Foreman
Ranch Hand
Network Intern
IT Assistant

Now tell me how this will save 30 schools from closing in New York City. :rolleyes:
 
Brother: Why then do we care about the Church in Haiti? According to you, we have no vested interest in the Church in our country. As each parish/school falls, we all lose. One can either build up the Church or tear it down. It doesn’t all happen in my neighborhood. And yes, every true Catholic has a big dog in the fight.
If the Diocese of Bridgeport opens up a pork-only butcher shop in the Charedi section of Jerusalem or Islamabad, do I have an obligation, personally, to somehow save it from insolvency? An obligation that carries the moral weight of helping my Catholic brothers and sisters that are maimed, homeless, and starving in Haiti?

Uh, kcuf no.

The Catholic school systems across America are something that we should be concerned with–both with their long-term sustainability/solvency and their orthodoxy. But the truth is, its no longer the 1940s with Irish/Italian sprites popping out, left-and-right. The Archdiocese has to make its own plan for the current circumstance and plan for the future.

What I mean is, just because schools are closing, doesn’t mean this is a sign of weakness or neglect. If they are consolidating bodies of pupils, raising the standards for teachers, and improving the standards of catechism, this would be preferable to having a bunch of schools open that have poor accounts and questionable orthodoxy.
 
Go back and read my post. I did not compare Brother to Hitler’s men. I was speaking of the people in other towns who said “I don’t have to do anything because it’s not my town.” When the day came that it was their town, there was no one left to defend them AGAINST Hitler’s men - NOT that they were Hitler’s men.
Yeah, instead of ‘Nazi-sympathizer’–which was just barely a misnomer on his part–you compared him to a ‘Nazi-enabler’ (through apathy). Which, arguably, is even worse.

You’re a big boy and you should be able to concoct your own statements without crude metaphors likening religious brothers to Fritz von Papen.

I think, also to clarify what Brother might have meant, the *geographic disparity *was less important than the walk of life that Brother most likely finds himself in.

This school-closing problem is something that concerns (1) the administrative office of the Archdiocese and its comptroller, (2) Catholic donors, and–MOST IMPORTANTLY–(3) Catholic parents with money and children to send to these schools.

If Brother is like most religious brothers I know, he is (1) poor, and (2) childless.

Two conditions which ironically are the result of having served the Church more than you ever will.
 
To the ranting poster - Simmer down. Your anger does not help your message. Your statements are flawed; I have no desire to address them. What I do want to address is your attempt to distort Truism’s words to the Brother. I know what Truism was referring to: a poem written about the time leading up to the Holocaust. The point is that evil can flourish when good men do nothing. That’s right - good men. In other words, the Brother was being characterized as being a good man - NOT a Nazi. Your accusations are beyond the pale.

I find it to be an incredibly valid point that the silence of Catholics when it comes to school closings, parish closings, etc. is extremely detrimental. One does not have to live within the neighborhood of that closing parish or closing school to be affected by it. Are we not weaker as a whole religion if one by one, region by region, our Churches and schools are shut down? Would it not help if we, as united Catholics, spoke up and supported each other to keep such closings from happening? Is it not time that we demand, as a united body of Catholics that our Catholic schools be not only kept open, but restored to having truly Catholic standards?

This apathetic attitude of “it’s not my parish so it doesn’t affect me” is disastrous in its practical effects. The enemy wants to divide and conquer. DIVIDE and conquer. Why shouldn’t we UNITE across state borders and parish boundaries to strengthen ourselves? Thank God for the internet - it helps all of us to become aware of what is going on in the Church throughout this whole country (and world) - and we ALL have a vested interest in it.

And count me in as someone who is dismayed at the idea that a teaching Brother does not feel mass Catholic school closings (no matter where it may be) does not affect him.
 
To the ranting poster - Simmer down. Your anger does not help your message. Your statements are flawed; I have no desire to address them. What I do want to address is your attempt to distort Truism’s words to the Brother. I know what Truism was referring to: a poem written about the time leading up to the Holocaust. The point is that evil can flourish when good men do nothing. That’s right - good men. In other words, the Brother was being characterized as being a good man - NOT a Nazi. Your accusations are beyond the pale.

I find it to be an incredibly valid point that the silence of Catholics when it comes to school closings, parish closings, etc. is extremely detrimental. One does not have to live within the neighborhood of that closing parish or closing school to be affected by it. Are we not weaker as a whole religion if one by one, region by region, our Churches and schools are shut down? Would it not help if we, as united Catholics, spoke up and supported each other to keep such closings from happening? Is it not time that we demand, as a united body of Catholics that our Catholic schools be not only kept open, but restored to having truly Catholic standards?

This apathetic attitude of “it’s not my parish so it doesn’t affect me” is disastrous in its practical effects. The enemy wants to divide and conquer. DIVIDE and conquer. Why shouldn’t we UNITE across state borders and parish boundaries to strengthen ourselves? Thank God for the internet - it helps all of us to become aware of what is going on in the Church throughout this whole country (and world) - and we ALL have a vested interest in it.

And count me in as someone who is dismayed at the idea that a teaching Brother does not feel mass Catholic school closings (no matter where it may be) does not affect him.
I disagree with what you have said here.

I did not say, if I recall correctly, that they do not affect me. I asked what I am expected to do in a diocese that is over 2000 miles away.

I support the Archbishop. I am sure he has worked through this thougthfully. No bishop wants to close down anything but at times it is necessary.

We can, as faithful Catholics, disagree on this matter.

To paint me as a “good man” who is doing nothing and therefore allowing evil to flourish is ignorant and offensive. It is labeling me as an enableler.

Trusim attempted to put me in the same class as those who enabled the Holocaust which is offensive and disgusting.

The closing of Catholic schools that can not support themselves in now way compares to the intentional killing of over 6 million people.
 
To the ranting poster - Simmer down. Your anger does not help your message. Your statements are flawed; I have no desire to address them. What I do want to address is your attempt to distort Truism’s words to the Brother. I know what Truism was referring to: a poem written about the time leading up to the Holocaust. The point is that evil can flourish when good men do nothing. That’s right - good men. In other words, the Brother was being characterized as being a good man - NOT a Nazi. Your accusations are beyond the pale.

And count me in as someone who is dismayed at the idea that a teaching Brother does not feel mass Catholic school closings (no matter where it may be) does not affect him.
Look, I just think that its stupid and dangerous for… people who are otherwise decent and right-headed… to assume the mantle of the Church’s Rambo.

My treatment of him was not especially ‘angry’–far from it. I was pointing out, firmly, why his own brash attitude wouldn’t carry him very far.

As for my statements being ‘flawed’–if so, prove it.
 
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