Are All Called To Be Saints?

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choliks said:
I have to disagree with this. We are called to holiness and to be saints. However, the way we respond is what makes us Saints. Believe or not, our canonized Saints are just saints, but it was their EXTRAORDINARY responses to God’s call that made them stand out. The martyrs gave up their lives for the faith. St. Augustine used his superior intellect to serve the Church. Blessed Mother Theresa was unmatched in her selflessness and love… and so on and so forth. All extraordinary.
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I think the Saints would be happy with ‘just’ being saints, seriously though I know what you mean but I disagree. And I do so not for the sake of it or being stubborn but based on the authentic teaching of the church as expounded by the two Doctors of The Church I have cited.
 
jmj1984 said:
All catholics are saints in that we are ‘a royal priesthood etc…’ and set apart for God but we are not all going to receive the graces Saints do or demonstrate heroic virtues.
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So God plays favorites and gives out graces to some, not others? Grace to help us grow in heroic virtue? Christ commands us to be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect. I think that demands extraordinary and heroic virtue. We are called to live out charity to a heroic degree.
And that is why I object to the idea that we are all called to be Saints, in the sense of canonised saints or exercise their virtues, God will call whom he will.
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And He calls us all!
The idea is absurd because Grace is not given equally to all as St Thomas Aquinas states and as God would not call us to a state without providing us with the means to achieve that state insofar as we are faithful to his will, he cannot call us all to be ‘Saints’.
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Insofar as we open ourselves to grace, do things to receive grace, are docile to grace we will always receive grace, God will never withhold grace. Grace is not given equally to all because not all are open and want it. And God respects that. It requires our cooperation.
 
vardaquinn said:
So God plays favorites and gives out graces to some, not others? Grace to help us grow in heroic virtue? Christ commands us to be perfect as our heavenly father is perfect. I think that demands extraordinary and heroic virtue. We are called to live out charity to a heroic degree.

And He calls us all!

Insofar as we open ourselves to grace, do things to receive grace, are docile to grace we will always receive grace, God will never withhold grace. Grace is not given equally to all because not all are open and want it. And God respects that. It requires our cooperation.
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Thanks but thats your opinion I am not expressing my opinion but pointing out the theological statements of two Doctors of the Church. I am not asking people to listen to me but to what they say, you on the other hand have not addressed these statements but merely expressed your opinion.
 
On the subject of St. Therese’s quote posted by jmj1984…

Not all of us are called to live extraordinary lives. Some of us are called to live hidden and quiet lives (like Therese). Some of us are called to do extraordinary things, some of us are called to do be quiet and little. But all of us are called to union with God in an extraordinary way, and all of us are called to live extraordinary virtue. There must be a diversity in our individual vocations, with that beautiful analogy of the garden. But all of us are supposed to be flowers in the garden.
 
vardaquinn said:
On the subject of St. Therese’s quote posted by jmj1984…

Not all of us are called to live extraordinary lives. Some of us are called to live hidden and quiet lives (like Therese). Some of us are called to do extraordinary things, some of us are called to do be quiet and little. But all of us are called to union with God in an extraordinary way, and all of us are called to live extraordinary virtue. There must be a diversity in our individual vocations, with that beautiful analogy of the garden. But all of us are supposed to be flowers in the garden.
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Indeed but as St Therese says ‘Then opening the Gospels, my eyes fell on these words: "Jesus, going up into a mountain, called unto Him whom He would Himself. They threw a clear light upon the mystery of my vocation and of my entire life, and above all upon the favours which Our Lord has granted to my soul. He does not call those who are worthy, but those whom He will. As St. Paul says: "God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy."I often asked myself why God has preferences, why all souls do not receive an equal measure of Grace.’

Advocates of universal sainthood would do well to remember St Therese of Liseux’s words when they attempt to claim her as support for their view in misrepresenting her words, the same way people attempt to claim St Francis for ecumenicism by misrepresenting him.
 
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jmj1984 said:
Indeed but as St Therese says ‘Then opening the Gospels, my eyes fell on these words: "Jesus, going up into a mountain, called unto Him whom He would Himself. They threw a clear light upon the mystery of my vocation and of my entire life, and above all upon the favours which Our Lord has granted to my soul. He does not call those who are worthy, but those whom He will. As St. Paul says: "God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy."I often asked myself why God has preferences, why all souls do not receive an equal measure of Grace.’

Advocates of universal sainthood would do well to remember St Therese of Liseux’s words when they attempt to claim her as support for their view in misrepresenting her words, the same way people attempt to claim St Francis for ecumenicism by misrepresenting him.
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So, what I am getting from your last paragraph is that God created some souls to attain everlasting life in heaven. (sainthood). And he created other souls to languish in everlasting punishment. Is that what you mean?

Even though, some are roses and some are a lowly daisy, all are in God’s garden. (heaven and are therefore saints). What is wrong with my understanding of these words?
 
Celticnovice said:
This
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Yes! We are all called to be saints. It is only one poster who disagrees with this.

He has made some really skewed posts to oppose the statement. I was looking for some clarification regarding the misunderstanding he has about the writings of St. Therese, but I guess that won’t be forthcoming.
 
jmj1984 said:
Indeed but as St Therese says ‘Then opening the Gospels, my eyes fell on these words: "Jesus, going up into a mountain, called unto Him whom He would Himself. They threw a clear light upon the mystery of my vocation and of my entire life, and above all upon the favours which Our Lord has granted to my soul. He does not call those who are worthy, but those whom He will. As St. Paul says: "God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy."I often asked myself why God has preferences, why all souls do not receive an equal measure of Grace.’
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But as Our Lord revealed to St. Faustina time and time again - His mercy is for ALL, without exception. That is the heart of the Divine Mercy devotion. No matter what, God will have mercy on us. Not through our own worthiness, but simply because we come to Him and ask, acknowledging our own unworthiness.
 
Indyann said:
Yes! We are all called to be saints. It is only one poster who disagrees with this.

He has made some really skewed posts to oppose the statement. I was looking for some clarification regarding the misunderstanding he has about the writings of St. Therese, but I guess that won’t be forthcoming.
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He’s operating under the delusion that God will refuse grace to those who come to Him, and is taking Therese out of context. Therese is showing that God is merciful to all, and calls all to Himself, does this in different ways. But not everyone comes. It’s something called “terminal uniqueness”. One thinks that God’s grace and God’s mercy and the call to holiness is for everyone, but them. Jesus did not say: come unto me all you who labor, and I will give you rest - except this person, or this group. No. The essence of the Catholic faith is that God’s mercy and salvation and grace, and His call to be holy, and His desire for union with all souls is something that is for every single person, without exception.
 
Indyann said:
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So, what I am getting from your last paragraph is that God created some souls to attain everlasting life in heaven. (sainthood). And he created other souls to languish in everlasting punishment. Is that what you mean?

Even though, some are roses and some are a lowly daisy, all are in God’s garden. (heaven and are therefore saints). What is wrong with my understanding of these words?
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That your understanding ignores St Therese’s words perhaps?

‘He does not call those who are worthy, but those whom He will. As St. Paul says: "God will have mercy on whom He will have mercy. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that showeth mercy."I often asked myself why God has preferences, why all souls do not receive an equal measure of Grace. I was filled with wonder when I saw extraordinary favours showered on sinners… and many others whom he forced so to speak to receive his graces. In reading the lives of the Saints, I was surprised to see there were certain privileged souls whom Our Lord favoured from the cradle to the grave, allowing no obstacle in their path which might keep them from mounting towards him…And again it puzzled me why so many poor savages should die without even having heard the name of God…’
 
Indyann said:
Yes! We are all called to be saints. It is only one poster who disagrees with this.

He has made some really skewed posts to oppose the statement. I was looking for some clarification regarding the misunderstanding he has about the writings of St. Therese, but I guess that won’t be forthcoming.
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The statements are not skewed, they are simply quotes from Doctors of the church, if you have a problem with that take it up with them.
 
vardaquinn said:
But as Our Lord revealed to St. Faustina time and time again - His mercy is for ALL, without exception. That is the heart of the Divine Mercy devotion. No matter what, God will have mercy on us. Not through our own worthiness, but simply because we come to Him and ask, acknowledging our own unworthiness.
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Indeed but not all will avail themselves of that Mercy and his mercy does not contradict his justice as our Lord made clear when speaking of purgatory and hell.

'…In a moment I was in a misty place full of fire in which there was a great crowd of suffering souls…The flames which were them did not touch me at all. My guardian angel did not leave me for an instant. I asked these souls what their greatest suffering was. They answered me in one voice that their greatest torment was longing for God. I saw our lady seeking the souls in purgatory…We went out of that prison of suffering I heard an interior voice which said’My mercy does not want this but justice demands it’ Divine Mercy in my soul 20

'I sister Fasutina, by the order of God, have visisted the abysses of hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I notice one thing: that most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell. When I came to, I could hardly recover from the fright. How terribly souls suffer there! Divine Mercy in My Soul 741
 
vardaquinn said:
He’s operating under the delusion that God will refuse grace to those who come to Him, and is taking Therese out of context. Therese is showing that God is merciful to all, and calls all to Himself, does this in different ways. But not everyone comes. It’s something called “terminal uniqueness”. One thinks that God’s grace and God’s mercy and the call to holiness is for everyone, but them. Jesus did not say: come unto me all you who labor, and I will give you rest - except this person, or this group. No. The essence of the Catholic faith is that God’s mercy and salvation and grace, and His call to be holy, and His desire for union with all souls is something that is for every single person, without exception.
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Now I’m operating under a delusion? Who said that was even my point of view? For someone who claims to be baptised in the spirit it looks like you could do with a fresher course on the virtues.

I did not say Gods mercy was not for everyone or that everyone was called to be holy, I said that not everyone is called to be saints, they are two entirely different things. I wonder perhaps if you understand or how you understand the de fide doctrines of predestination and hell?
 
Indyann said:
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So, what I am getting from your last paragraph is that God created some souls to attain everlasting life in heaven. (sainthood). And he created other souls to languish in everlasting punishment. Is that what you mean?

Even though, some are roses and some are a lowly daisy, all are in God’s garden. (heaven and are therefore saints). What is wrong with my understanding of these words?
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Exactly. What I’m getting from his opinion is that we are not equal in the eyes of God: that those of us who are not called to be Saints are to spend the rest of eternity in purgatory or hell. Sounds like predestination to me.

When we get to heaven, whether the church recognizes us or not, we become Saints. IMHO, the canonization of Saints is an exercising of the Church’s authority to bind or loose. She is declaring that a certain saint is already in heaven. This is ascertained by the Church through the miracles that occur with the Saint’s intercession–proof that the saint is now in the company of Christ. Now, the Church canonizes a Saint also so that the faithful, us saints, can follow in his/her footsteps.

Indeed we need grace to be a Saint. But it doesn’t stop there. Yes, grace enables us, but we need to freely choose and love Him extraordinarily. This was what St. Ignatius of Loyola meant with “magis.” In the First Principle and Foundation found in the Spiritual Exercises…

*The human person is created to praise, reverence, and serve God Our Lord, and by doing so, to save his or her soul.

All other things on the face of the earth are created for human beings in order to help them pursue the end for which they are created.*

It didn’t say… “Certain human persons were created…”

Mind you, that if it’s absurd to aspire to be a Saint then we better ask Fr. Robert Barron to remove that part from the “Catholicism” series, because it’s going to be used as aninstructional video too. Which means it’s not only opinion, it’s Church teaching.

Could it be that the quotes from the Doctors of the Church were used out of context? Because St. Therese was talking about her vocation, not about being a Saint, in that quote.
 
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