Are All Called To Be Saints?

[zab]

If I remember rightly, the Baltimore Catechism stated that our purpose as humans in to know God, to love God, and to serve God, and to worship Him forever in heaven.

Who worships God in heaven? Saints. Yes, we are all called to Sainthood. Right now we are saints (little s). We hope to become Saints (big S) in heaven.

Yes, belong to the **Communion of Saints- **The faithful on earth, the souls in purgatory and the saints in heaven.

 

[jmj1984]

If I remember rightly, the Baltimore Catechism stated that our purpose as humans in to know God, to love God, and to serve God, and to worship Him forever in heaven.

Who worships God in heaven? Saints. Yes, we are all called to Sainthood. Right now we are saints (little s). We hope to become Saints (big S) in heaven.

Would someone like to provide evidence rather than merely repeat it again and again?

Yes we are all called to be holy and worship god in heaven and only saints will be heaven (little s) but how are we all called to be Saints (big s) canonised, experiencing such graces and exercising the virtues in a heroic way?

 

[TrueLight]

Would someone like to provide evidence rather than merely repeat it again and again?

Yes we are all called to be holy and worship god in heaven and only saints will be heaven (little s) but how are we all called to be Saints (big s) canonised, experiencing such graces and exercising the virtues in a heroic way?

For the sake of clarification, can we not refer to saints and **Canonized **Saints?.

I think most would agree that we are all not going to be canonized. It is not canonization that turns you into a Saint.

To throw another wrench, I have always been taught that saints, also refer to “believers”, or holy people. Even those who are still alive.

1 Cor 6:1-20
[1] When one of you has a grievance against a brother, does he dare go to law before the unrighteous instead of the saints?
[2] Do you not know that the **saints **will judge the world? And if the world is to be judged by you, are you incompetent to try trivial cases?

Philippians 4:21

Greet all the **saints **in Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me send greetings.

 

[jmj1984]

For the sake of clarification, can we not refer to saints and **Canonized **Saints?.

I think most would agree that we are all not going to be canonized. It is not canonization that turns you into a Saint.

To throw another wrench, I have always been taught that saints, also refer to “believers”, or holy people. Even those who are still alive.

So had I. My point in making the statement which kicked off this whole thread is that;

1)We will not all receive equal graces
2)We will not all receive equal glory in heaven
3)We are not all called to exercise the virtues in a heroic way

 

[valient_Lucy]

So had I. My point in making the statement which kicked off this whole thread is that;

1)We will not all receive equal graces
2)We will not all receive equal glory in heaven
3)We are not all called to exercise the virtues in a heroic way

No thinking person could disagree with those statements.

 

[TrueLight]

So had I. My point in making the statement which kicked off this whole thread is that;

1)We will not all receive equal graces
2)We will not all receive equal glory in heaven
3)We are not all called to exercise the virtues in a heroic way

Ah gotcha.

However, I’m not sure how “heroic” is being used.

Are we not to give our all to live a devout life?

 

[valient_Lucy]

Ah gotcha.

However, I’m not sure how “heroic” is being used.

Are we not to give our all to live a devout life?

Heroes go above and beyond. Classic example is the martyr. A martyr is called by God to sacrifice his life for the faith. Not everyone is called to be a martyr.

Others are called to the councils of perfection: poverty, chastity, and obedience. God calls some women to live lives of consecrated virginity, to be a sign of the Church. Not all women are called to this.

 

[TrueLight]

Heroes go above and beyond. Classic example is the martyr. A martyr is called by God to sacrifice his life for the faith. Not everyone is called to be a martyr.

So some of us are called to be cowards if faced with choosing the Christian faith or choosing another faith?

Early Christians died in droves. I’m sure they did not see themselves as heroes, but only did what was the right thing to do.

I am not saying I would enthusiastically sign up for the chance to be a martyr, if faced with worshiping the true God and some false God, but I would pray for strength to do it.

Others are called to the councils of perfection: poverty, chastity, and obedience. God calls some women to live lives of consecrated virginity, to be a sign of the Church. Not all women are called to this.

I agree with this.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Heroes go above and beyond. Classic example is the martyr. A martyr is called by God to sacrifice his life for the faith. Not everyone is called to be a martyr.

Others are called to the councils of perfection: poverty, chastity, and obedience. God calls some women to live lives of consecrated virginity, to be a sign of the Church. Not all women are called to this.

On a related note, during the early church, there was a heresy that said that unless a person died a martyr, he could not be saved.

I believe that there was a similar heresy that said that if a person married and did not die a virgin, he could not be saved. I’m not sure about that, but I think there was.

 

[TrueLight]

On a related note, during the early church, there was a heresy that said that unless a person died a martyr, he could not be saved.

I believe that there was a similar heresy that said that if a person married and did not die a virgin, he could not be saved. I’m not sure about that, but I think there was.

Interesting!

 

[RICKY_RASPER]

Just to clarify my statement, I did not mean saints in lowercase s, as I made rather clear, but saints as regards ‘canonised saints’ that is exercising the virtues to a heroic degree.

Surely the last word on who is worthy of sainthood lies with the Lord.Who is man to set man on a pedestal above other men?

 

[valient_Lucy]

So some of us are called to be cowards if faced with choosing the Christian faith or choosing another faith?

Early Christians died in droves. I’m sure they did not see themselves as heroes, but only did what was the right thing to do.

I am not saying I would choose martyrdom if faced with worshipping the true God and some false God, but I would pray for strength to do it.

Martyrdom is a grace from God. Not everyone has that gift. Some people are called to live ordinary lives and die ordinary deaths. Some people are called to live extraordinary lives and die ordinary deaths.

St. Therese desperately wanted to die a martyr, so did St. Teresa of Avila. St. Teresa of Avila even tried to run away as a child to lands occupied by the Muslims so that she could be martyred. And yet neither one of them were martyred. They served God in their own way, but they were never martyred. They didn’t have that gift.

 

[TrueLight]

Martyrdom is a grace from God. Not everyone has that gift. Some people are called to live ordinary lives and die ordinary deaths. Some people are called to live extraordinary lives and die ordinary deaths.

St. Therese desperately wanted to die a martyr, so did St. Teresa of Avila. St. Teresa of Avila even tried to run away as a child to lands occupied by the Muslims so that she could be martyred. And yet neither one of them were martyred. They served God in their own way, but they were never martyred. They didn’t have that gift.

I’m not saying we should all strive to be martyrs. I certainly don’t want to die a martyr. But if ever faced with death or idolatry of a false god, I pray I don’t chicken out.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I’m not saying we should all strive to be martyrs. I certainly don’t want to die a martyr. But if ever faced with death or idolatry of a false god, I pray I don’t chicken out.

We all pray that.

But for every martyr, there have been 1000 Catholics who lived ordinary lives and died ordinary deaths, their names unkown to anyone but God. The fact is, most people will be one of those 1000 ordinary Catholics. Most Catholics will never be called by God to die martyrs, to travel half way around the world to preach the gospel in a foreign land, to become the Pope, or to found or reform a religious order. A few will, most will not.

 

[m134e5]

So had I. My point in making the statement which kicked off this whole thread is that;

1)We will not all receive equal graces
2)We will not all receive equal glory in heaven
3)We are not all called to exercise the virtues in a heroic way

We do not all receive equal graces, because each person has unique needs. God offers each of us what we need. Some people need a lot. Others don’t need much at all.

Yes, we are all called to be saints. We won’t all be canonized, but a saint is a soul in heaven and we are all called to be that someday.

Please read the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium. It should make things clearer to you, and comes straight from the Vatican so there is no doubt about the accuracy of what it says. Pay particular attention to chapter 5.

 

[valient_Lucy]

We do not all receive equal graces, because each person has unique needs. God offers each of us what we need. Some people need a lot. Others don’t need much at all.

Yes, we are all called to be saints. We won’t all be canonized, but a saint is a soul in heaven and we are all called to be that someday.

Please read the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium. It should make things clearer to you, and comes straight from the Vatican so there is no doubt about the accuracy of what it says. Pay particular attention to chapter 5.

You didn’t respond to the other two points

2.) Some people will have a higher glory in heaven
3.) Some people will be called to demonstrate heroic virtue.

 

[TrueLight]

You didn’t respond to the other two points

2.) Some people will have a higher glory in heaven
3.) Some people will be called to demonstrate heroic virtue.

Someone can demonstrate heroic virtue without a bunch of people being aware of it. Those are called unsung heroes. I guess I don’t understand why anything has to be obviously “heroic”.

Someone who is a risk taker, and extremely brave, may find it easy to risk his life for a stranger, while someone who is painfully shy may exhibit heroic virtue by speaking to a person about the Lord.

I just think we need to focus to giving our all to the Lord and in being open to be a vessel which he can use in whichever way he wants.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Someone can demonstrate heroic virtue without a bunch of people being aware of it. Those are called unsung heroes. I guess I don’t understand why anything has to be obviously “heroic”.

Someone who is a risk taker, and extremely brave, may find it easy to risk his life for a stranger, while someone who is painfully shy may exhibit heroic virtue by speaking to a person about the Lord.

I just think we need to focus to giving our all to the Lord and in being open to be a vessel which he can use in whichever way he wants.

It doesn’t have to be obviously heroic; some people do heroic things without letting anyone know.

A good example: a married couple Bl. Luigi and Bl. Maria (the first married couple to be beatifiied) took a vow of continence after 20 years of marriage. They gave up sexual relations and slept in different bedrooms for the rest of their marriage. But most people who knew them were probably not aware that they made this deicion. However, it was a heroic deicion.

 

[TrueLight]

It doesn’t have to be obviously heroic; some people do heroic things without letting anyone know.

A good example: a married couple Bl. Luigi and Bl. Maria (the first married couple to be beatifiied) took a vow of continence after 20 years of marriage. They gave up sexual relations and slept in different bedrooms for the rest of their marriage. But most people who knew them were probably not aware that they made this deicion. However, it was a heroic deicion.

Is that what they were beatified for?

What if a couple who is not that much into sex anyway, and takes a vow of continence because they feel it will help their spiritual lives. Is that heroic in the eyes of God?

What if on the other hand, one grows to despise sex, but out of charity, denies himself and sleeps with his wife. Is that heroic?

Anyway, I fear I am derailing the thread, so I’ll leave it alone.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Is that what they were beatified for?

It was part of it, but not the whole reason. Otherwise my parents would be up for beatification as soon as they died. (They’re divorced.)

What if a couple who is not that much into sex anyway, and takes a vow of continence because they feel it will help their spiritual lives. Is that heroic in the eyes of God?

Don’t know, but the greater the sacrifice, the greater the act of heroism. If they weren’t that crazy about sex anyway, then it would be far less heroic than for a couple who very much enjoyed their sex life to take a vow of continence. It would not be heroic for me to give up tomatoes.

What if on the other hand, one grows to despise sex, but out of charity, denies himself and sleeps with his wife. Is that heroic?

Yes. It would be less heroic than a man who likes sex taking a vow of continence, imo, but still heroic.

Anyway, I fear I am derailing the thread, so I’ll leave it alone.

Probably a good idea. This could be a huge tangent.