Are All Called To Be Saints?

[corsair]

I believe that if we would follow Christ to the best of our ability and put all of our trust in Him, then He will give us the Graces to do what needs to be done. some will be given the Grace to become martyr’s, some will be given the Grace to promote the Faith in the face of evil. Some will receive the Grace to be good fathers and mothers.

We all have a mission, of sorts. God alone knows what that will be and if we will meet the challenge or fail.

But above all, we need to learn to trust Him implicitly.

God Bless

 

[TrueLight]

I believe that if we would follow Christ to the best of our ability and put all of our trust in Him, then He will give us the Graces to do what needs to be done. some will be given the Grace to become martyr’s, some will be given the Grace to promote the Faith in the face of evil. Some will receive the Grace to be good fathers and mothers.

We all have a mission, of sorts. God alone knows what that will be and if we will meet the challenge or fail.

But above all, we need to learn to trust Him implicitly.

God Bless

Excellently put, Corsair. That is what I have been trying to say, but it took me like 5 posts while it took you one.

 

[jmj1984]

We do not all receive equal graces, because each person has unique needs. God offers each of us what we need. Some people need a lot. Others don’t need much at all.

Yes, we are all called to be saints. We won’t all be canonized, but a saint is a soul in heaven and we are all called to be that someday.

Please read the Vatican II document Lumen Gentium. It should make things clearer to you, and comes straight from the Vatican so there is no doubt about the accuracy of what it says. Pay particular attention to chapter 5.

If the only thing you can cite to support that view is one document from the ordinary magisterium, I’m afraid you’re not going to convince me. As the holy father himself said 'we must interpret in the light of tradition’ and the tradition of the church on those matters is quite clear.

 

[jmj1984]

Is that what they were beatified for?

What if a couple who is not that much into sex anyway, and takes a vow of continence because they feel it will help their spiritual lives. Is that heroic in the eyes of God?

What if on the other hand, one grows to despise sex, but out of charity, denies himself and sleeps with his wife. Is that heroic?

Anyway, I fear I am derailing the thread, so I’ll leave it alone.

Ultimately its up to the church to decide what is and isn’t heroic, so who knows I very much doubt though someone having sex though disliking it would be a heroic act of charity.

 

[jmj1984]

Ah gotcha.

However, I’m not sure how “heroic” is being used.

Are we not to give our all to live a devout life?

Indeed we are but heroic is something above and beyond mere devoutness. Heroic humulity would be for example when St Margaret Mary Alcoque only drank dirty water or put up with persecution and ridicule for years and even believed she was deluded etc… It is something ‘heroic’ because it is so above what we must do.

 

[jmj1984]

Surely the last word on who is worthy of sainthood lies with the Lord.Who is man to set man on a pedestal above other men?

It lies with the church, his bride, through him he chooses to speak and act.

 

[valient_Lucy]

Ultimately its up to the church to decide what is and isn’t heroic, so who knows I very much doubt though someone having sex though disliking it would be a heroic act of charity.

St. Thomas Aquinas says that it is a meritorious act to render the marital debt. It may or may not be heroic, but the situation (where a man who doesn’t like sex has sex with his wife if she desires it) would certainly be meritoroious.

 

[valient_Lucy]

St. Thomas Aquinas says that it is a meritorious act to render the marital debt. It may or may not be heroic, but the situation (where a man who doesn’t like sex has sex with his wife if she desires it) would certainly be meritoroious.

On second thought, it would definitely not be heroic. There is nothing heroic about a man having sex with his wife, because he is obligated to do that. There is nothing heroic about fulfilling your obligations. However, it would still be meritorious.

Now, Bl. Luigi and Bl. Maria were not obligated to give up sexual relations; no couple is. But they chose to make that sacrifice for the sake of the Kingdom. That is heroic.

 

[cecilia97]

Would someone like to provide evidence rather than merely repeat it again and again?

Yes we are all called to be holy and worship god in heaven and only saints will be heaven (little s) but how are we all called to be Saints (big s) canonised, experiencing such graces and exercising the virtues in a heroic way?

This is a false dichotomy between canonized Saints and un-canonized Saints (ie the Saints in heaven that are, as yet, unknown to the Church). For all we know (and hope) there are millions of Saints in heave right now whom we know nothing about. They have not been canonized, but they are (big S) Saints.

I am a little s saint right now, and I hope to be a big S Saint in the future. The Church might not know about me and canonize me, but I could still be a Saint. I am shooting for that. The alternative is too terrible to consider.

 

[valient_Lucy]

So some of us are called to be cowards if faced with choosing the Christian faith or choosing another faith?

In Egypt right now, Coptic Christians are fearing that they will be persecuted by Muslims. They are choosing to flee the country.

Are they behaving heroically?

No.

Are they doing anything wrong?

No!

 

[valient_Lucy]

This is a false dichotomy between canonized Saints and un-canonized Saints (ie the Saints in heaven that are, as yet, unknown to the Church). For all we know (and hope) there are millions of Saints in heave right now whom we know nothing about. They have not been canonized, but they are (big S) Saints.

I am a little s saint right now, and I hope to be a big S Saint in the future. The Church might not know about me and canonize me, but I could still be a Saint. I am shooting for that. The alternative is too terrible to consider.

If I’m correct, the poster’s point is that not everyone in heaven will have equal glory. But we all know this. Neither one of us will be Queen of Heaven, that honor belongs to the Virgin Mary.

We also know that, in heaven, martyrs will trump non-martyrs, and consecrated virgins (ie religious) will trump married people. The formers will be given a greater reward than the latter. (There will be some exceptions, since Jesus said that many who are first shall be last and many who are last shall be first.) But the rule still holds.

I think the problem is that most of the people on this forum (myself included) are American, and as a result we’ve been brainwashed since childhood to believe that “all men are created equal” nonsense. This makes it tough to understand why some people in heaven will get better rewards than others.

 

[guanophore]

Yes! We are all called to be saints. It is only one poster who disagrees with this.

He has made some really skewed posts to oppose the statement. I was looking for some clarification regarding the misunderstanding he has about the writings of St. Therese, but I guess that won’t be forthcoming.

He manifests this on every topic. It has something to do with a reading comprehension problem.

 

[jmj1984]

If I’m correct, the poster’s point is that not everyone in heaven will have equal glory. But we all know this. Neither one of us will be Queen of Heaven, that honor belongs to the Virgin Mary.

We also know that, in heaven, martyrs will trump non-martyrs, and consecrated virgins (ie religious) will trump married people. The formers will be given a greater reward than the latter. (There will be some exceptions, since Jesus said that many who are first shall be last and many who are last shall be first.) But the rule still holds.

I think the problem is that most of the people on this forum (myself included) are American, and as a result we’ve been brainwashed since childhood to believe that “all men are created equal” nonsense. This makes it tough to understand why some people in heaven will get better rewards than others.

That is indeed all I meant we will all be saints, in that we will be saved in heaven. But we are not going to be equal and probably not canonised.

 

[jmj1984]

He manifests this on every topic. It has something to do with a reading comprehension problem.

And you manifest your inability to be charitable on every topic, it has something to do with not properly understanding the virtues

 

[guanophore]

Would someone like to provide evidence rather than merely repeat it again and again?

Your previous posts have made it clear that you do not consider the New Testament to be an authentic Source of Catholic faith, jmj, but for those who do consider it to be a source of Catholic theology, here is some “evidence”:

1:1 Paul…by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord, 5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship to bring about the obedience of faith for the sake of his name among all the nations, 6 including yourselves who are called to belong to Jesus Christ; 7 To all God’s beloved in Rome, who are called to be saints… Rom 1:1-7

2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours…1 Cor 1:2

…from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might, 10 when he comes on that day to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed, because our testimony to you was believed. 11 To this end we always pray for you, that our God may make you worthy of his call, and may fulfil every good resolve and work of faith by his power, 12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thess 1:9-12

The term “saints” in these passages is translated from the Gk. “hagios” which means “holy” or set aside for a sanctified purpose.

Yes we are all called to be holy and worship god in heaven and only saints will be heaven (little s) but how are we all called to be Saints (big s) canonised, experiencing such graces and exercising the virtues in a heroic way?

We all receive the amount of grace we need to be able to be canonized. Some people need more grace than others (they are further away from God and have more travel to sanctity) but each person receives whatever grace they need to become the person God desires them to become. Everyone has a different calling/vocation in life, and many saints live quiet lives of obedience and sanctity that may never be recognized even by persons close to them, or by the Church. That is the only difference, though. All are saints on the same level. Those with a capital “S” are distinguished only by the fact that their presence in heaven has been revealed to the Church.

 

[guanophore]

Heroes go above and beyond. Classic example is the martyr. A martyr is called by God to sacrifice his life for the faith. Not everyone is called to be a martyr.

Others are called to the councils of perfection: poverty, chastity, and obedience. God calls some women to live lives of consecrated virginity, to be a sign of the Church. Not all women are called to this.

Each person has his own particular vocation, and each of us have certain works that God has prepared for us to accomplish. Persons who are “heroic” will tell you that they are just doing what was their duty, and what anyone would have done in that situation. We are all equally called to fulfill our respective vocations “heroically” in that we are to live out God’s grace in our lives in a way that radically contradicts the world in which we live. We are all equally called to lay down our lives, take up our cross, and live the Gospel.

 

[guanophore]

However, I’m not sure how “heroic” is being used.

I think what jmj is saying is that we are not all called to demonstrate the heroic virtue that characterizes canonized saints.

 

[TrueLight]

We also know that, in heaven, martyrs will trump non-martyrs, and consecrated virgins (ie religious) will trump married people. The formers will be given a greater reward than the latter. (There will be some exceptions, since Jesus said that many who are first shall be last and many who are last shall be first.) But the rule still holds.

Lucy, do you have a reference to the above? Thanks.

 

[TrueLight]

I think what jmj is saying is that we are not all called to demonstrate the heroic virtue that characterizes canonized saints.

Thank you.

 

[RICKY_RASPER]

It lies with the church, his bride, through him he chooses to speak and act.

The Church decides who goes to Heaven and not Christ ! A novel idea but not one which I would agree with.