Are all Homosexual acts as immoral

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JuicetheBaptist

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I just came out of a youth group meeting where I had a riff with the pastor of the parish. He challenged me to show a source where the Church has declared homosexual acts to be immoral. I held that this is what the Church teaches. When I arrived home, I found that my catechism states very cleary that homosexual acts do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved" [CCC 2357]. He also told the us that we should follow what we truly believed to be right (although not what we think is easiest). How this distinction can be translated to a 16 year old, I have no idea!

He claims as well that because they are in a loving relationship, certain homosexual acts are necessary sins. He argued that we would prefer them in these relationships than in promiscuous ones. This is his idea of the pastoral approach. What do teens know of the pastoral approach? And does that make it right or acceptable? I look forward to your response. Please furnish me with definitive Church statements which I can bring back to him.
 
Don’t take anything back to him at all. Tell your parents and/or pastor about the situation. You’re a kid; it’s not your responsibility (or it shouldn’t be) to correct an adult. While I am grateful for your knowledge – and I’m sure there are other kids in that room who were, too – it would be disrespectful for you to fight this one on your own. Let another adult handle it. Tell your parents and/or your pastor. Go further up the food chain if nothing is done. God Bless you for asking advice on what to do rather than just allowing yourself to go off half-cocked at him.
 
JuicetheBaptist said:
When I arrived home, I found that my catechism states very cleary…

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Please furnish me with definitive Church statements which I can bring back to him.
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The Catechism is a definitive Church statement. 😉

If it was your pastor who challenged you (yikes!), ask your parents to help you talk with him, and contact the bishop of your diocese if necessary.
 
Oh…umm, I mentioned it in another post and probably should have mentioned it here. I’m a 23yr old seminarian. I’m the youth group coordinator. Nonetheless I’m a little cautious of confronting him.
 
JuicetheBaptist said:
Oh…umm, I mentioned it in another post and probably should have mentioned it here. I’m a 23yr old seminarian.
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Oops. 😊 Sorry about that!! For some reason, I had it in my head you were 16. Maybe it’s too late at night to be answering people’s posts… 😃

Sorry I couldn’t be more helpful. This does change things a little.
 
JuicetheBaptist said:
Oh…umm, I mentioned it in another post and probably should have mentioned it here. I’m a 23yr old seminarian. I’m the youth group coordinator. Nonetheless I’m a little cautious of confronting him.
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You need to report this to the head of your seminary, and to the Bishop. Talk to your spiritual director.

You are 100% correct, and don’t let your youth or inexperience stop you from confronting this evil.

This is a terrible abuse of his authority, leading young people astray. He has some serious issues and should not be allowed to continue anywhere near young people.
 
It’s not just in the catechism. It’s pretty clearly stated in the Bible someplace too, but I can’t remember the chapters and verses now. Anybody know offhand?
 
Jesus defines sin as lack of love. (Mt 22:36-40) What is unloving about homosexuality? If you like shockers, look at Leviticus 18:22 in German. Martin Luther’s Bibel (1545) has an original take on it that has been corrupted since King (or Queen) James and his version. (Get it at BibleGateway.com) He translates it “Man shall not lie with a BOY as with a woman”.
 
Isn’t this pretty easy?
  1. Marriage in the church is between a male and female with no impediment to marry.
  2. Sex between people other than a husband and wife is wrong.
  3. Homosexual acts are never between a married male and female, therefore they are always wrong.
 
Matthew 22:36-40 says “36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: " ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’** 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” That includes the sixth which outlaws adultery (voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a person who is not their spouse), certainly not a loving act.
Homosexuality is not an act. It is “feeling or involving sexual attraction to people of one’s own sex”. While we are getting terms straight, know that “homosexuality” is a word coined about 1865. So you need to read an earlier version of the Bible to see that most use a phrase like “sexual immorality” which is yet to be defined. Incidentally the attempted rape of angels in Genesis surely was an abomination to God. But not even San Francisco has a 100% homosexual population. (actually it is only 35%) If the mob were ALL the men and boys, they were not homosexuals. Where would the youth come from? “'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.” (Ezekiel 16) Something to chew on with your Sunday breakfast.**
 
“Silence the man!” Bah, such an unfortunately common response on these forums. I suggest that you should simply meet this person in private and discuss the issue. Perhaps you could make arrangements for your paster and yourself to have a discussion/debate about the subject as a sort of “issue night” for the youth. It would be an occassion for the youth to hear both sides of the arguments. I think that the youth are old enough to hear both sides of this particular issue, right?
 
JuicetheBaptist said:
Oh…umm, I mentioned it in another post and probably should have mentioned it here. I’m a 23yr old seminarian. I’m the youth group coordinator. Nonetheless I’m a little cautious of confronting him.
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It’s quite clear (the “rift”) that you’ve already confronted him. Now you need to encounter the rector of your seminary and if it’s necessary, the bishop. You are in the process of formation. It is beyond your capabilities and responsibilities to see that you “change his mind” and his teaching. However others do have the power to see that he is “changed” or dismissed. I’ll pray for you. This is a very serious matter and reporting him is totally mandatory as far as your responsibility in the situation.

God bless you.
 
Exalt said:
“Silence the man!” Bah, such an unfortunately common response on these forums. I suggest that you should simply meet this person in private and discuss the issue. Perhaps you could make arrangements for your paster and yourself to have a discussion/debate about the subject as a sort of “issue night” for the youth. It would be an occassion for the youth to hear both sides of the arguments. I think that the youth are old enough to hear both sides of this particular issue, right?
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Wrong.

The Church is obligated to teach truth, not lies.
 
1ke said:
This is a terrible abuse of his authority, leading young people astray. He has some serious issues and should not be allowed to continue anywhere near young people.
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I quite agree.
 
Exalt said:
If the Church’s teaching is true, then an honest debate will lead teens towards that truth, right?
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Again, wrong.

One does not debate truth. Truth is truth. Teens (children) are better prepared for life when they recieve large servings of truth.
 
Exalt said:
“Silence the man!” Bah, such an unfortunately common response on these forums. I suggest that you should simply meet this person in private and discuss the issue. Perhaps you could make arrangements for your paster and yourself to have a discussion/debate about the subject as a sort of “issue night” for the youth. It would be an occassion for the youth to hear both sides of the arguments. I think that the youth are old enough to hear both sides of this particular issue, right?
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Yes, but not from the pastor, and not in his pastoral role. If he is there to shepherd the flock, then his duty is to teach and guide within orthodox faith. He cannot be the one proposing that sins are necessary in any circumstance, because they are not.
Exalt said:
If the Church’s teaching is true, then an honest debate will lead teens towards that truth, right?
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No. Most Catholic youngsters have been very poorly catechized, and their consciences are unformed, or malformed. As such, they lack the tools needed to be find the truth on their own. However, even if they were well formed and understood what the Church teaches, an “honest” debate would require that the Pastor, who is responsible to represent and champion the teachings of the Church, would do so.
 
catharina said:
Again, wrong.

One does not debate truth. Truth is truth. Teens (children) are better prepared for life when they recieve large servings of truth.
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Wait, so how do you know what the truth is at all if you don’t debate it?
 
This is why JPII’s Theology of the body needs to be mandatory reading in seminaries. It should also be simplified and adapted for youth education, marriage preparation classes, RCIA, etc. If our seminaries learn it and preach it when they become priests we could turn around this age of sexual concupiscence in a generation or two.
 
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