Are all theological developments in the West adopted by Easterners Latinizations?

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I was wondering, since the West has adopted and defended the orthodox theologies of the East (we don’t call them easternizations, but orthodox), how come all theologies developed by the West and then adopted by some easterners considered latinizations?

This seems to be some sort of Latin prejudice. If it isn’t historically found in the eastern Church; it shouldn’t be there altogether. I understand you wish to keep your identity as Eastern Christians and the identity of your sui juris church, but is everything Latin adopted eastward a latinization?
 
Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

Let me qualify my answer before I begin. It’s early in the morning and I really haven’t thought this through as completly as I should have.

A simple anwer is: IN MY OPINION many things that were adopted from the West were done so to be identified as good Catholics or so Eastern Catholics could separate themselves from the Orthodox. In most cases of Latinizations, Western practices replaced those of the East. Eastern sprituality was therefore set aside. Sometimes the changes came under pressure or because of a misplaced conception of how a Catholic should practice his/her faith.

This is not a complete answer, but I have a Divine Liturgy(Mass) to prepare for. The use of the word Mass in the East is a Latinization.

Yours in Christ,
Father Deacon Paul
 
Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

Let me qualify my answer before I begin. It’s early in the morning and I really haven’t thought this through as completly as I should have.

A simple anwer is: IN MY OPINION many things that were adopted from the West were done so to be identified as good Catholics or so Eastern Catholics could separate themselves from the Orthodox. In most cases of Latinizations, Western practices replaced those of the East. Eastern sprituality was therefore set aside. Sometimes the changes came under pressure or because of a misplaced conception of how a Catholic should practice his/her faith.

This is not a complete answer, but I have a Divine Liturgy(Mass) to prepare for. The use of the word Mass in the East is a Latinization.

Yours in Christ,
Father Deacon Paul
I attended midnight liturgy, so I am a bit tired, but I’ll answer the best I can…

I agree with ELEUTHERIUS. Also, many Latin practices were forced on Eastern communities. On the other hand, most Eastern practices which have been discovered by the East, are accepted freely and in addition to the fullness of the Latin practices. In some Easterners lives, for instance, the Rosary has replaced the chotki…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
 
I attended midnight liturgy, so I am a bit tired, but I’ll answer the best I can…

I agree with ELEUTHERIUS. Also, many Latin practices were forced on Eastern communities. On the other hand, most Eastern practices which have been discovered by the East, are accepted freely and in addition to the fullness of the Latin practices. In some Easterners lives, for instance, the Rosary has replaced the chotki…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
Tired from that Latinization that all, except the Armenians have succumbed to:

CHRISTMAS.

Advent and its fast also started in the West (Gallican rite).
 
I attended midnight liturgy, so I am a bit tired, but I’ll answer the best I can…

I agree with ELEUTHERIUS. Also, many Latin practices were forced on Eastern communities. On the other hand, most Eastern practices which have been discovered by the East, are accepted freely and in addition to the fullness of the Latin practices. In some Easterners lives, for instance, the Rosary has replaced the chotki…

Prayers and petitions,
Alexius:cool:
the rosary and chotki are both private devotions and therefore left up to the individual Christian, Orthodox or Catholic. I was thinking more along the lines of theologies such as the treasury of merits, indulgences, etc.
 
the rosary and chotki are both private devotions and therefore left up to the individual Christian, Orthodox or Catholic. I was thinking more along the lines of theologies such as the treasury of merits, indulgences, etc.
Just to clear something up. The east does not simply view the Jesus Prayer as a private devotion, it is a way of life. It is a way of praying ceaselessly. It is central to their spiritual life.
 
Just to clear something up. The east does not simply view the Jesus Prayer as a private devotion, it is a way of life. It is a way of praying ceaselessly. It is central to their spiritual life.
if i’m not mistaken the jesus prayer is only a tradition of the byzantine eastern churches.
 
if i’m not mistaken the Jesus prayer is only a tradition of the byzantine eastern churches.
I don’t think so, but I’m not really sure. It may be more widespread among them but I don’t think it can be thought of as an exclusively ‘Greek’ devotion.

The prayer is very old and predates the later divisions of the East, but that’s a good question. I thought that it was prayed among the desert fathers of Egypt. I wonder if many Copts or Jacobites pray it today. If it is well known among Maronites that could also be a good indicator.

Certainly Saint Hesychios (early fifth century) expounded on it a great deal and for him it seems to have been a received discipline. He died before the Council of Chalcedon and some of his writings are found in the Philokalia.

Michael
 
Copts do practice the Jesus prayer, as do the Jacobites. I do not know about the Armenians or Ethiopians.

There are some Maronites who practice the Jesus Prayer, though the Rosary is far more popular due to it’s enforcement in the 18th century. Whether the practice of the Jesus Prayer is a “Hellenization,” I do not know, though as brother Michael said, the Jesus Prayer predates the schisms.

Peace and God Bless.
 
Advent and its fast also started in the West (Gallican rite).
Wrong. Saint Gregory of Nazianza started the Nativity Feast at Constantinople. That is what the Eastern Churches of the Byzantine tradition use.

I’m sure Saint Gregory had no idea of what the Gallicans used or did.

The preporatory period is not Latin.
 
I was wondering, since the West has adopted and defended the orthodox theologies of the East (we don’t call them easternizations, but orthodox), how come all theologies developed by the West and then adopted by some easterners considered latinizations?

This seems to be some sort of Latin prejudice. If it isn’t historically found in the eastern Church; it shouldn’t be there altogether. I understand you wish to keep your identity as Eastern Christians and the identity of your sui juris church, but is everything Latin adopted eastward a latinization?
Having looked at the OP, and the list of posters so far I feel that I will be allowed frankness in this post.

I think one of the reasons theologies of the “east” are defended by the west is that they are the roots of the west. To deny them is for her to deny she has connection to the apostles. One cannot deny the great disperity in the spacifics in the realms of thought between the Early Church Fathere’s and what became the church of the west. So the west attempts to phrase them as merely alternative perspectives and more developed schools of thought when compared to the consistancy that the churches of the east show with the same, saying that their own grew out of the apostolic deposit of faith while in the east theological insight stagnated in preserving the pool inviolate.
Thus you are right the latinization of the east occours not only when practices are forced upon the faithful of the east like the majority who have responded before me have noted, but also in the taking up of thinking that the western church has. That is the development of theology and these developed theologies. This thinking is not healthy. This thinking gives us Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII, and the assundry of protestant churchmen. This thinking gives us the doctrines of sin nature, predestination and self governance independant of Church authority. Many of you will say: “Wait we are Catholic and not a part of these heretical ideas that are illigitimate developments cut off from the apostles.” I say to you: when you accept one idea foreign to the fathers as rightly developed, how do you know the others are not?" The prejiduce against the latin is justified in areas of such diseased thoughts claiming to be developed, but unjust in the areas consistent with the fathers that is free of novelties and inovations.
 
if i’m not mistaken the jesus prayer is only a tradition of the byzantine eastern churches.
There are many forms of the Jesus Prayer, and there are a few forms which are Byzantine-specific; some are even specific ethnic traditions.

It is, however, institutionalized in the Byzantine Chotki. 33, 50, or 150 of them. Where the Marion Rosary uses 50 Hail Mary’s, the Chotki uses the Jesus Prayer, and hence its name as the Jesus Rosary or even the Byzantine Rosary.

Certain traditions allow the shortening of the prayer when saying the chotki…
  • Oh Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.
  • Oh Lord Jesus, have mercy on me.
  • Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.
  • Lord Jesus, have mercy on me.
  • Lord have mercy on me, a sinner.
  • Lord have mercy.
I often use the last of these, as I was taught by him who byzantified me: Rev. Fr. Greskowiak.
 
Christ is Born! Glorify Him!

The Jesus Prayer or the Prayer of the Heart that I learned and use is “Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, Have mercy on me a sinner.” I never shorten this prayer as in it we pray what we believe. We recognize Jesus as our Lord. We recognize Him as the Son of the Father. We recognize that we are sinners. We recognize the Holy Spirit, for it is only through the Spirit that we can pray properly and know who Jesus is. So the prayer is not only a prayer to Jesus but also to the Holy Trinity.

Yours in Christ,

Father Deacon Paul
 
Wrong. Saint Gregory of Nazianza started the Nativity Feast at Constantinople. That is what the Eastern Churches of the Byzantine tradition use.
In 379 or 380 Gregory Nazianzen made himself exarchos of the new feast, i.e. its initiator, in Constantinople, where, since the death of Valens, orthodoxy was reviving. His three Homilies (see Hom. xxxviii in P.G., XXXVI) were preached on successive days (Usener, op. cit., p. 253) in the private chapel called Anastasia. On his exile in 381, the feast disappeared.

According, however, to John of Nikiû, Honorius, when he was present on a visit, arranged with Arcadius for the observation of the feast on the Roman date. Kellner puts this visit in 395; Baumstark (Oriens Chr., 1902, 441-446), between 398 and 402. The latter relies on a letter of Jacob of Edessa quoted by George of Beeltân, asserting that Christmas was brought to Constantinople by Arcadius and Chrysostom from Italy, where, “according to the histories”, it had been kept from Apostolic times. Chrysostom’s episcopate lasted from 398 to 402; the feast would therefore have been introduced between these dates by Chrysostom bishop, as at Antioch by Chrysostom priest. But Lübeck (Hist. Jahrbuch., XXVIII, I, 1907, pp. 109-118) proves Baumstark’s evidence invalid. More important, but scarcely better accredited, is Erbes’ contention (Zeitschrift f. Kirchengesch., XXVI, 1905, 20-31) that the feast was brought in by Constantine as early as 330-35.

In Antioch, on the feast of St. Philogonius, Chrysostom preached an important sermon. The year was almost certainly 386, though Clinton gives 387, and Usener, by a long rearrangement of the saint’s sermons, 388 (Religionsgeschichtl. Untersuch., pp. 227-240). But between February, 386, when Flavian ordained Chrysostom priest, and December is ample time for the preaching of all the sermons under discussion. (See Kellner, Heortologie, Freiburg, 1906, p. 97, n. 3). In view of a reaction to certain Jewish rites and feasts, Chrysostom tries to unite Antioch in celebrating Christ’s birth on 25 December, part of the community having already kept it on that day for at least ten years. In the West, he says, the feast was thus kept, anothen; its introduction into Antioch he had always sought, conservatives always resisted. This time he was successful; in a crowded church he defended the new custom. It was no novelty; from Thrace to Cadiz this feast was observed – rightly, since its miraculously rapid diffusion proved its genuineness. Besides, Zachary, who, as high-priest, entered the Temple on the Day of Atonement, received therefore announcement of John’s conception in September; six months later Christ was conceived, i.e. in March, and born accordingly in December.

Finally, though never at Rome, on authority he knows that the census papers of the Holy Family are still there. [This appeal to Roman archives is as old as Justin Martyr (Apol., I, 34, 35) and Tertullian (Adv. Marc., IV, 7, 19). Julius, in the Cyriline forgeries, is said to have calculated the date from Josephus, on the same unwarranted assumptions about Zachary as did Chrysostom.] Rome, therefore, has observed 25 December long enough to allow of Chrysostom speaking at least in 388 as above (P.G., XLVIII, 752, XLIX, 351).
I’m sure Saint Gregory had no idea of what the Gallicans used or did.
Why? The Paschal controversy of the second century, during the persecusions, and later, show the Church was very aware of what the individual Churches were doing.

And from this period we know, for instance, St. Hillary of Poitiers went to Constantinople. And the emperors in Constantinople were heavily involved in Gaul (e.g. Julian became emperor in Paris).
The preporatory period is not Latin.
The preporatory period doesn’t date from the 4th century, but later. It’s fuller development was the gift of the Gallic Church to the Church as a whole.
 
I think one of the reasons theologies of the “east” are defended by the west is that they are the roots of the west. To deny them is for her to deny she has connection to the apostles. One cannot deny the great disperity in the spacifics in the realms of thought between the Early Church Fathere’s and what became the church of the west. So the west attempts to phrase them as merely alternative perspectives and more developed schools of thought when compared to the consistancy that the churches of the east show with the same, saying that their own grew out of the apostolic deposit of faith while in the east theological insight stagnated in preserving the pool inviolate.
Thus you are right the latinization of the east occours not only when practices are forced upon the faithful of the east like the majority who have responded before me have noted, but also in the taking up of thinking that the western church has. That is the development of theology and these developed theologies. This thinking is not healthy. This thinking gives us Luther, Calvin, Henry VIII, and the assundry of protestant churchmen. This thinking gives us the doctrines of sin nature, predestination and self governance independant of Church authority. Many of you will say: “Wait we are Catholic and not a part of these heretical ideas that are illigitimate developments cut off from the apostles.” I say to you: when you accept one idea foreign to the fathers as rightly developed, how do you know the others are not?" The prejiduce against the latin is justified in areas of such diseased thoughts claiming to be developed, but unjust in the areas consistent with the fathers that is free of novelties and inovations.
Great post.
 
Isa,

I think our understandings of the Gallican tradition differ significantly.

The Cappadocians and John Chysostom come from a fairly uniform tradition, where as, I understand the term gallican to be rather “muddled” and not very uniform.
 
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