Are Anglicans protestants?

[Peter_J]

The Episcopal church refers to itself as Protestant AND Catholic, because – well, we like having our cake and eating it too.

We Catholics (along with the PNCC, ACoE, and the Orthodox) prefer to be catholic only and not protestant because, well, “Why have chicken when you can have steak?”

 

[GKC]

It pays to be organized. I wonder what the other rulers in europe thought of him having 6 wives?

In succession, of course. His circumstance was remarked on, but not much.

GKC

 

[Mystophilus]

I think this is missing the point. It doesn’t matter how large the American church is.

It is very much to the quoted point, in which the OP questions whether the self-identification of the American Episcopalian Church(es) is indicative of Anglicanism. TEC is only one very small corner of the Communion, and thus too small a sample to be indicative of the whole.

 

[Mystophilus]

The entire theology and liturgy of the Church of England, from the Book of Common Prayer to the Articles of Religion, are thoroughly Protestant.

I would add ecclesiology to that list, also, since we are a confederation of autonomous provinces.

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

The Episcopal church refers to itself as Protestant AND Catholic, because – well, we like having our cake and eating it too. We regard ourselves as being members of the ‘catholic’ (universal) Christian church, but the influence of Protestanism varies on the parish, I think – both on the people’s desires (mine has become more high church over the years) and the priest. My first rectors were converted Methodists and southern Baptists, so their theology tended to be different than that of my current rector, who was baptized in the Catholic church but raised in an Episcopal parish. The only major Protestant influence I’ve observed on the whole is a greater emphasis on salvation by faith.

At this point in time you and your experience are not uncommon. Had you lived in 1835 you and your parish and your rectors would have been drummed out of the C of E.

Anglo-Catholicism is a modern innovation in Anglicanism. As a practical matter, however, theologically the Anglican Communion is thoroughly Protestant. Women priests and bishops, birth control, abortion, divorce and remarriage, are all inconsistent with any coherent Catholic theology.

.

 

[ltwin]

It is very much to the quoted point, in which the OP questions whether the self-identification of the American Episcopalian Church(es) is indicative of Anglicanism. TEC is only one very small corner of the Communion, and thus too small a sample to be indicative of the whole.

This has nothing to do with how big TEC is. TEC’s story is indicative of how language has been changed in the wider Anglican world. The pattern is the same. Once, “Protestant” was an uncontroversial designation among Anglicans. Today, it is controversial. That’s the point, and TEC’s name changes are illustrations of that. Uses in English law of the phrase “Protestant Reformed Religion established by law” illustrate the same point in the case of the Church of England.

The point is that language changes over time. Words that were once uncontroversial become controversial. This has happened to “Protestant” within the wider Anglican world. American Episcopalians were not outliers when they called themselves “Protestant Episcopal.” They were in agreement with other Anglicans that they were indeed Protestants. Today, TECers share with other Anglicans a reluctance to identify themselves as unambiguously Protestant without a ton of qualifiers and talk of a Via Media.

 

[commenter]

Ok. No hurry if you have other things to do. I would love to hear the tale though. Thanks.

“No Hurry?” … “other things to do?”
What could be more important than prompt response to posts on the Internet?
Does life have other aspects I don’t know about?

 

[GKC]

This has nothing to do with how big TEC is. TEC’s story is indicative of how language has been changed in the wider Anglican world. The pattern is the same. Once, “Protestant” was an uncontroversial designation among Anglicans. Today, it is controversial. That’s the point, and TEC’s name changes are illustrations of that. Uses in English law of the phrase “Protestant Reformed Religion established by law” illustrate the same point in the case of the Church of England.

The point is that language changes over time. Words that were once uncontroversial become controversial. This has happened to “Protestant” within the wider Anglican world. American Episcopalians were not outliers when they called themselves “Protestant Episcopal.” They were in agreement with other Anglicans that they were indeed Protestants. Today, TECers share with other Anglicans a reluctance to identify themselves as unambiguously Protestant without a ton of qualifiers and talk of a Via Media.

The “via media” goes back to the Tractarian Newman; the idea back to Hooker and before. Sometimes as a middle way within protestantism, sometimes as a middle path between it and the RCC.

GKC

 

[benjohnson]

My personal observation, is that I seemingly only call Anglicans “protestant” when I know it will annoy them.

Anglican: “Yay! We just ordained a lactose-intolerant female priest!”
Me: “How very… protestant.”

 

[Mystophilus]

This has nothing to do with how big TEC is. TEC’s story is indicative of how language has been changed in the wider Anglican world.

Really, so how many other Anglican provinces have changed their names by removing “Protestant”?

 

[ltwin]

Really, so how many other Anglican provinces have changed their names by removing “Protestant”?

Few provinces existed in the 1780s. TEC was the first to exist outside the British Isles. Geographic designations were used for the Churches of England and Ireland. Yet, Scotland was different. In that country, Presbyterianism was the state religion, and the Presbyterians had the honor of calling their church the Church of Scotland. The Anglicans settled on the Protestant Episcopal Church in Scotland, which was shortened to the Episcopal Church in Scotland and today that church is known as the Scottish Episcopal Church. I’m not sure when “Protestant” was dropped from the name, but it was still part of the name in 1840, showing up in an Act of Parliament.

My point is not that every Anglican province originally had “Protestant” as part of their name. My point is that in the 1700 and 1800s it was taken for granted that Anglicans were Protestants. Otherwise, no Anglican province would have included “Protestant” in its name.

 

[Mystophilus]

My point is not that every Anglican province originally had “Protestant” as part of their name. My point is that in the 1700 and 1800s it was taken for granted that Anglicans were Protestants. Otherwise, no Anglican province would have included “Protestant” in its name.

I have not, at any point, disagreed with the fact that Anglicanism was understood to be Protestant.

 

[KjetilK]

Sometimes I see places where it says Anglicans are not Protestants, but a distinctive branch of Christianity, but then other times I see places where it says that Anglicans are Protestants. Isn’t the full name of the Episcopal Church the Protestant Episcopal Church of America? Does that show Anglicans are Protestants? But then you will hear a lot of Anglicans disavow Protestant and refer to themselves as a distinct branch… I’m really confused…

The problem is that ‘Protestantism’ has become (or has perhaps always been) a meaningless, empty term which can mean almost anything. To say that a Lutheran and a Zwinglian are both Protestants, for instance, show how empty the term is.

 

[mustrdseedfaith]

Sometimes I see places where it says Anglicans are not Protestants, but a distinctive branch of Christianity, but then other times I see places where it says that Anglicans are Protestants. Isn’t the full name of the Episcopal Church the Protestant Episcopal Church of America? Does that show Anglicans are Protestants? But then you will hear a lot of Anglicans disavow Protestant and refer to themselves as a distinct branch… I’m really confused…

The short answer to this after reading all the posts is, yes, we Anglicans are Protestant because we are not under the authority of the Pope or the Catholic Church. The remainder of our differences or similarities really are of no consequence to the answer.

 

[mustrdseedfaith]

The problem is that ‘Protestantism’ has become (or has perhaps always been) a meaningless, empty term which can mean almost anything. To say that a Lutheran and a Zwinglian are both Protestants, for instance, show how empty the term is.

Protestantism isn’t an empty term simply because there is spectrum of beliefs under one umbrella. Protestantism means that you adhere to the Christian faith without being part of the Catholic Church. It really isn’t intended to define doctrine any more than that.

 

[mustrdseedfaith]

At this point in time you and your experience are not uncommon. Had you lived in 1835 you and your parish and your rectors would have been drummed out of the C of E.

Anglo-Catholicism is a modern innovation in Anglicanism. As a practical matter, however, theologically the Anglican Communion is thoroughly Protestant. Women priests and bishops, birth control, abortion, divorce and remarriage, are all inconsistent with any coherent Catholic theology.

.

FYI, be sure to distinquish between the Church of England’s brand of Anglicanism and American Anglicanism. The latter recently had to break away from CoE because we could no longer find grounds for compromise with CoE’s increasingly unscriptural stand.

 

[mustrdseedfaith]

Yes, sadly, Anglicans are Protestants. Arguably, Henry VIII did more for Protestantism than Martin Luther ever dreamed of.

“Sadly”?

 

[mustrdseedfaith]

A few details:

It was the managers of the young Edward VI who pushed the CoE in the reformed direction. Mary followed Eddie, and shifted back to Rome, then Liz brought the CoE back to the center. And there was a little more to the Defensor Fidei title then the Assertio Septem Sacramentorum story (one of my favorite tales).

But you have the right idea.

GKC

Actually, Elizabeth followed her mother’s lead. Anne Boelyn was very influenced by the reformers. Just a little fun history factoid.

 

[mustrdseedfaith]

We Catholics (along with the PNCC, ACoE, and the Orthodox) prefer to be catholic only and not protestant because, well, “Why have chicken when you can have steak?”

Because steak leads to high cholesterol and heart attacks, while chicken is good for the heart?

 

[GKC]

Actually, Elizabeth followed her mother’s lead. Anne Boelyn was very influenced by the reformers. Just a little fun history factoid.

Anne was no ways the savvy politico that Liz was. La Boleyn certainly was moved by the reformist mode. It was, after all, she who gave Tyndale’s OBEDIENCE OF A CHRISTIAN MAN to Henry, thus inspiring his whole "Christian Monarch " fetish, which underlay his justification for taking the Church in England private. But Liz was a far shrewder hand. One can hardly conceive of anything analogous to the Elizabethan Compromise coming from Anne’s pretty head.

Love historical factoids, I do. Re: Tudors, they been a hobby area for me for around 20 years. Many factoids in there. Many of them related here, over the years.

GKC