Are animals wiser than people?

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Qoeleth

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It would seem that in many respect animals are wiser than people:
  • Animals do not exhibit greed or avarice, but take only what they need, and do not have useless anxiety about the future, e.g. Jesus’ reference to the birds of the air, which take no thought for the future
  • Animals do not exhibit pride, vanity or desire for the esteem of others, unlike their human counterparts
  • Animals have social and sexual relationships in accordance with the norms of nature, unlike humans, not having sex for recreation
  • Animals, when no activity is necessary, can sink into deep contemplation, which is possible only for few humans. What mystic could ever equal a crocodile lying still on the banks of the river for stillness of mind and body?
As a consequence, among animals there is less war, less destruction of the environment, less injustice, less immorality, less depression, than amongst people. Are animals, therefore, wiser than people?
 
**Lassie for President! 😃 **

Really, Ooeleth. You come up with strange ideas, but this one takes the cake.

A crocodile sits quietly all day because it can think of nothing else. It’s not comtemplation.
The same for your other thoughts.
 
If animals are so wise then why did the chicken cross the road?
 
This reminds me of something C.S. Lewis wrote, about how if we could be an animal for a short time we might easily mistake the inferior simplicity of its non-rational mind for superiority, for some kind of spiritual epiphany.

Although, by the way, I think some social animals like dogs do hunger for the approval of others, while somewhat intelligent but not so social animals like cats seem to have something akin to pride.
 
Qoeleth said:
It would seem that in many respect animals are wiser than people:
  • Animals do not exhibit greed or avarice, but take only what they need, and do not have useless anxiety about the future, e.g. Jesus’ reference to the birds of the air, which take no thought for the future
  • Animals do not exhibit pride, vanity or desire for the esteem of others, unlike their human counterparts
  • Animals have social and sexual relationships in accordance with the norms of nature, unlike humans, not having sex for recreation
  • Animals, when no activity is necessary, can sink into deep contemplation, which is possible only for few humans. What mystic could ever equal a crocodile lying still on the banks of the river for stillness of mind and body?
As a consequence, among animals there is less war, less destruction of the environment, less injustice, less immorality, less depression, than amongst people. Are animals, therefore, wiser than people?
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Is any of what you refer to really wisdom? Or is it instinct, nature, drive, cognitive and emotional simplicity, lack of free will? How do you define wisdom: only by its consequences? Further, some species can and do destroy their own, and sometimes not for ecologically sound reasons; and they can be cruel to other species as well.
 
No. They are not wiser. But they (or nature in general) seem to be smarter than we are. But God still gives us mastery over them. 😃 Don’t abuse that privilege!
 
Qoeleth said:
  • Animals have social and sexual relationships in accordance with the norms of nature, unlike humans, not having sex for recreation.
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That’s not entirely true. It depends on the species. Bonobo chimps are very promiscuous and whereas penguins mate for life and daddy penguins look after the babies. 🙂
 
Qoeleth said:
It would seem that in many respect animals are wiser than people:
  • Animals do not exhibit greed or avarice, but take only what they need, and do not have useless anxiety about the future, e.g. Jesus’ reference to the birds of the air, which take no thought for the future.
Click to expand...
As far as greed, I’ve placed two dog biscuits on the floor about a foot apart in front of my dog, and seen him spend a few slightly anxious minutes choosing neither biscuit because he couldn’t figure out how to nab both at once.

I’ve often seen one of my horses, the boss mare, ruffle up her pile of hay if it contains a little alfalfa mixed in with grass hay. The alfalfa leaves fall through the grass hay stalks onto the ground, and then she snarfs them up first. Then, after her hay has no alfalfa leaves remaining, she goes to another horse’s pile of hay, tells them to move on, and repeats the ruffling up/leaf gathering process.

Today I only had one water bucket filled and ready when my horses first came in from the pasture on this fairly hot day. The boss mare drank first, but her friend kept pestily nudging her to get her head out of the bucket so he could drink. After a lot of nudging a stalemate was reached, both noses deadlocked a few inches above the bucket, neither one allowing the other to drink their fill and move on. I tried not to laugh as I filled the second water bucket.

Animals are amazing…extremely, uncannily perceptive, “gifted with extensions of the senses that we have lost or never attained.” “They are not brethren, they are not underlings; they are other nations, caught with ourselves in the net of life and time, fellow prisoners in the splendor and travail of the earth.” But no, they are not wiser than people.
 
I’ve heard that apes and dolphins also have recreational sex.

And “stillness of body” probably has far more to do with human sleep than with human contemplation!

I would not say that nature was smarter than we. Nature is mindless. We just haven’t solved it out yet.

ICXC NIKA
 
Qoeleth said:
It would seem that in many respect animals are wiser than people:
  • Animals do not exhibit greed or avarice, but take only what they need, and do not have useless anxiety about the future, e.g. Jesus’ reference to the birds of the air, which take no thought for the future
  • Animals do not exhibit pride, vanity or desire for the esteem of others, unlike their human counterparts
  • Animals have social and sexual relationships in accordance with the norms of nature, unlike humans, not having sex for recreation
  • Animals, when no activity is necessary, can sink into deep contemplation, which is possible only for few humans. What mystic could ever equal a crocodile lying still on the banks of the river for stillness of mind and body?
As a consequence, among animals there is less war, less destruction of the environment, less injustice, less immorality, less depression, than amongst people. Are animals, therefore, wiser than people?
Click to expand...
Animals lack free will… that is why they are incapable of many of the sins that you mentioned above. A 5 year old child who has not yet reached the age of reason is also incapable of sin… would you argue that children are wiser then adults?? Perhaps you could argue that Jesus calls us to be child-like in our faith and that a child is generally more united with God’s love then many adults are. But I’ve always seen wisdom as being something that a person acquires when they do what’s right after experiencing the temptation of evil rather then doing what’s right just because there’s no discourse to do that which is wrong.
 
Qoeleth said:
It would seem that in many respect animals are wiser than people:
  • Animals do not exhibit greed or avarice, but take only what they need, and do not have useless anxiety about the future, e.g. Jesus’ reference to the birds of the air, which take no thought for the future
  • Animals do not exhibit pride, vanity or desire for the esteem of others, unlike their human counterparts
Click to expand...
True about no anxiety for the future, but I’ve seen cats fight over food and kill kittens because the kitten is a potential usurper to one’s dominance over territory.
Qoeleth said:
  • Animals have social and sexual relationships in accordance with the norms of nature, unlike humans, not having sex for recreation
Click to expand...
This one I agree with. But its not about being wiser. The fact that they do not overthink sex is their strength. People, because of knowledge, turned sex into something that it is not.
Qoeleth said:
  • Animals, when no activity is necessary, can sink into deep contemplation, which is possible only for few humans. What mystic could ever equal a crocodile lying still on the banks of the river for stillness of mind and body?
Click to expand...
Who says they are contemplating?
Qoeleth said:
As a consequence, among animals there is less war, less destruction of the environment, less injustice, less immorality, less depression, than amongst people. Are animals, therefore, wiser than people?
Click to expand...
Less war? Many of them fight upon contact. Those who are solitary would fight others. Those who live in communities would fight another community.

Less immorality? One feline can have a number of kittens, each with a different father. (I have a lot of cat facts because I love cats and have read a bit about them and watched those National Geographic specials about them)

Less depression? Love birds die when their partner dies.
 
There are numerous Scriptural instances where we humans are directed to emulate the wisdom of animals.
“Consider the birds of the air. for they neither so nor reap.” Matt 6:26
“Behold the ant, you sluggard, and consider its ways” Prov 6:6
The locust- who have no king, yet march in order. (Prov 30:27)
The gecko- which you can hold in your hand, yet lives in the palace of kings. (Prov 30:28)

Yes, there are examples of the folly of some animals (especially domestic animals)- but surely this is less than the folly of humanity.

One of the things most admirable about animals is there ability to do nothing, when there is nothing which needs doing.
 
Qoeleth said:
There are numerous Scriptural instances where we humans are directed to emulate the wisdom of animals.
“Consider the birds of the air. for they neither so nor reap.” Matt 6:26
“Behold the ant, you sluggard, and consider its ways” Prov 6:6
The locust- who have no king, yet march in order. (Prov 30:27)
The gecko- which you can hold in your hand, yet lives in the palace of kings. (Prov 30:28)

Yes, there are examples of the folly of some animals (especially domestic animals)- but surely this is less than the folly of humanity.

One of the things most admirable about animals is there ability to do nothing, when there is nothing which needs doing.
Click to expand...
Don’t mistake wisdom for better knowledge or higher sophistication. Wisdom is often found in simplicity. Perhaps the animals are wise because they do not think. We are foolish because we think too much.
 
Qoeleth said:
There are numerous Scriptural instances where we humans are directed to emulate the wisdom of animals.
“Consider the birds of the air. for they neither so nor reap.” Matt 6:26
“Behold the ant, you sluggard, and consider its ways” Prov 6:6
The locust- who have no king, yet march in order. (Prov 30:27)
The gecko- which you can hold in your hand, yet lives in the palace of kings. (Prov 30:28)

Yes, there are examples of the folly of some animals (especially domestic animals)- but surely this is less than the folly of humanity.

One of the things most admirable about animals is there ability to do nothing, when there is nothing which needs doing.
Click to expand...
I think we should be praising the wisdom of God for creating the animal rather then praising the animal itself (since the animal lacks free will and cannot rationally reflect on its own actions…)
 
ConstantineTG said:
Don’t mistake wisdom for better knowledge or higher sophistication. Wisdom is often found in simplicity. Perhaps the animals are wise because they do not think. We are foolish because we think too much.
Click to expand...
From Shakespeare’s “Hamlet”: “And thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied o’er by the pale cast of thought.” IOW, we over-analyze everything and therefore fail to accomplish important tasks. Our intellect works contrary to our nature.
 
meltzerboy said:
From Shakespeare’s “Hamlet”: “And thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied o’er by the pale cast of thought.” IOW, we over-analyze everything and therefore fail to accomplish important tasks. Our intellect works contrary to our nature.
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Considering that our mind has taken our fragile body, weak muscles, and dull senses and made us the dominant animal species of the planet, numbering in the billions; I’d say our intellect has served our nature pretty effectively.

The human body would make a lousy animal. It’s great strength is to carry a cognitive mind. And that has been more than enough to overcome it’s weaknesses.

ICXC NIKA
 
Qoeleth said:
It would seem that in many respect animals are wiser than people:
  • Animals do not exhibit greed or avarice, but take only what they need, and do not have useless anxiety about the future, e.g. Jesus’ reference to the birds of the air, which take no thought for the future
  • Animals do not exhibit pride, vanity or desire for the esteem of others, unlike their human counterparts
  • Animals have social and sexual relationships in accordance with the norms of nature, unlike humans, not having sex for recreation
  • Animals, when no activity is necessary, can sink into deep contemplation, which is possible only for few humans. What mystic could ever equal a crocodile lying still on the banks of the river for stillness of mind and body?
As a consequence, among animals there is less war, less destruction of the environment, less injustice, less immorality, less depression, than amongst people. Are animals, therefore, wiser than people?
Click to expand...
With no free will, animals have no choice but to follow Gods’ wisdom, to act according to the nature He’s given them. Humans, OTOH, have that very freedom, to oppose His will IOW, and that’s why its possible for us to do all the dumb things we do. The more intelligent a being is, and the more capacity they have for wisdom themselves, the greater the potential for falling, unless they happen to be God-with perfect wisdom, unlimited intelligence, omniscience, etc.
 
:snowing::manvspc::confused::DSaint Francis is the only one (outside of God) who could have a diffent answer to this question.
 
No, animals are not wiser than people. If they were, they would have been the ones to invent modern civilization along with things such as jets. Now, granted that pertains to knowledge but I still do not think that animals are wiser than humans. Humans are created in the image of God and animals are not.
 
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