Are any styles of music unsuitable for liturgy, if the lyrics are suitable?

[benedictgal]

I think its a matter of popular opinion within the group. If it were a bunch of teens, then perhaps for them it would be entirely possible to worship God with a rock song (with Christian lyrics, of course). If it were a more mixed group, that might not be so appropriate.

One should look forward to worshiping God with others. If they are able to have a group, then why can they not worship God in a way they enjoy? Certainly Jesus could appreciate the joy in all earnest worship. Whether it be a Gregorian chant, or someone screaming their lungs out, worship is worship.

But, you need to remember a couple of things. When we say worship, we are generally speaking of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Mass has its own standards for sacred music. It’s not some sort of free-for-all get together where anything goes. Rock music, no matter how orthodox the lyrics are, is never appropriate for the Mass. And, merely looking forward to worshipping God with others loses track of why we are there in the first place. True, the Church doesn’t exist in a vaccuum, but, neither is the community the driving force and focus of the Mass. God is.

That is why the music and the lyrics have to be in synch. Plus, there is solemnity involved. Now, solemnity and joy are not mutually exclusive. But, the joy pierced by Sacred Music is a sublime joy that goes beyond the emotions and it cuts right through to the soul. Rock music doesn’t do that. In fact, it does the opposite. Just read what the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger said (it’s somewhere in this thread). That should help clear things up.

 

[brycelaliberte]

But, you need to remember a couple of things. When we say worship, we are generally speaking of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Mass has its own standards for sacred music. It’s not some sort of free-for-all get together where anything goes. Rock music, no matter how orthodox the lyrics are, is never appropriate for the Mass. And, merely looking forward to worshipping God with others loses track of why we are there in the first place. True, the Church doesn’t exist in a vaccuum, but, neither is the community the driving force and focus of the Mass. God is.

That is why the music and the lyrics have to be in synch. Plus, there is solemnity involved. Now, solemnity and joy are not mutually exclusive. But, the joy pierced by Sacred Music is a sublime joy that goes beyond the emotions and it cuts right through to the soul. Rock music doesn’t do that. In fact, it does the opposite. Just read what the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger said (it’s somewhere in this thread). That should help clear things up.

Well, yes, of course. I was just speaking in general for worship. But for the liturgy, that’s not the place for that. Mistake on my part, forgetting about the context. Thinking from the way I grew up.

 

[KevinV]

Jim, what if somebody said that music in one of those styles was conducive for worship and prayer, for them? What would you say to them?

It seems like you’re splitting hairs. If it’s a style that’s not traditional and considered standard music suitable for the liturgy, I would say they’re out of luck. Enjoy that style all they want, just not in church. Either it is suitable, or it isn’t; no ambiguity. Having a preference for one type of music over another doesn’t cause it to cross lines of genre.

Just my opinion as a lifelong musician.

 

[Biblioassistant]

I love metal and punk but there’s no way in the world that I think music in those genres is suitable for church. Even if you rewrote the words to Highway to Hell and Bon Scott came back to sing them, I wouldn’t want that at Mass.

 

[VociMike]

It seems like you’re splitting hairs. If it’s a style that’s not traditional and considered standard music suitable for the liturgy, I would say they’re out of luck. Enjoy that style all they want, just not in church. Either it is suitable, or it isn’t; no ambiguity. Having a preference for one type of music over another doesn’t cause it to cross lines of genre.

Just my opinion as a lifelong musician.

Well, look at all the styles that would not have been considered suitable 50 years ago that are considered suitable today (at least in some parishes). I’d say there’s a great deal of ambiguity. There’s ambiguity in the words of the Vatican II documents, and there’s even more ambiguity in their interpretation. So how can one ever say that a style of music is unsuitable? What exactly is the argument that one would make? “Such-and-such style of music is unsuitable for liturgy because…” What does one put in place of the dots?

 

[JimR-OCDS]

You gave me a mission and before my tape self-destructs, I have completed it. Here is the website:

wyd2008.org/index.php/en/australian_parishes_schools/wyd08_mass_setting/(offset)/10

I am just now downloading the Gloria (I heard it at the office) and from the sounds of it, it’s pretty good and an improvement over the 2005 version. I don’t know if you remember the broadcast, but the look on the Holy Father’s face as the camera cut to him during the music was priceless. He was rather stoic (moreso than he usually appears) and seemed to just want the song to die a quick death (they also had some sort of bongo-tribal thing going, even though the texts were in Latin).

Interesting. I listened to the Gloria, and it sounds like its written and performed by David Haas.

I used David Haas music often at Mass. He wrote some good stuff which we could use for the responsorial psalm.

BTW, the music is for the parts of the Mass. What about the entrance, communion and recessional hymns?

Jim

 

[agapewolf]

I would really like someone who can actually talk intelligently about music tell me why they think the mass parts that we have for the WYD is good.

I’m not saying they aren’t …I haven’t dissected them yet.

Just because there is Organ and there is latin, does not make it good.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

I would really like someone who can actually talk intelligently about music tell me why they think the mass parts that we have for the WYD is good.

I’m not saying they aren’t …I haven’t dissected them yet.

Just because there is Organ and there is latin, does not make it good.

Well, I only listened to the Gloria. However, that piece is very similar to those sung in many Parishes, so, young people should be able to sing along on WYD.

If the music were to be, so complex, that they people attending, would merely have to listen, I would have a problem with it.

If the rest is like the Gloria, no problem.

BTW, the Gloria, they did in both Latin and English

Jim

 

[MargaretCortona]

Part of the issue seems to be the atmosphere that is set by the music. Some of the songs and mass settings we are now hearing sound more appropriate for “Diamond Tooth Gertie’s” than “St. Gertrude’s” - the words of the Gloria (for example) aren’t changed, but the “atmosphere” generated is definitely not one of solemnity, reverence, or awe at the presence of the Lord, or even of joyful celebration, but of “showiness” and “fun entertainment”.

 

[benedictgal]

I would really like someone who can actually talk intelligently about music tell me why they think the mass parts that we have for the WYD is good.

I’m not saying they aren’t …I haven’t dissected them yet.

Just because there is Organ and there is latin, does not make it good.

Of course, there are those who are allergic to both Latin and the organ for Youth Masses, so for them, it wouldn’t matter, would it?

Just because one uses something from Spirit and Song (which is not a very good hymnal as it takes excessive liberties with some of the parts of the Mass), plays it with a full “pop” band (complete with electric guitars, a drum set and keyboards) doesn’t make it at all good.

Besides, what has been released for WYD 2008 actually follows along with the kind of music mentioned in the Constitution on Sacred Liturgy, Musica Sacram and Sacramentum Caritatis. It is certainly far superior to what OCP is publishing right now.

Agapewolf, just because I am not a musician doesn’t necessarily mean that I don’t have an ear (or an appreciation) for music, especially since the type released for WYD 2008 falls along the lines of what the Church has requested. But, many, as far as OCP is concerned, have ignored or turned a deaf ear to, as far as the settings are concerned.

Why some people are so adamant about not letting young people learn to appreciate the kind of music the Church requests is something that is difficult to understand? Why not expose them to something solid, beautiful, solemn and sublime? Solemnity and joy are not mutually exclusive.

 

[system]

But, you need to remember a couple of things. When we say worship, we are generally speaking of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Exactly! This goes right to the whole point of being Catholic.

When I see those mega churches on TV and everyone is swaying, clapping and there’s a full “praise band” and the guitars are wailing, it doesn’t bother me a bit, because they’re just singing singing a hymn and “praisin’ the Lord!” No offense to any members of those churches, but what we Catholics are doing is something WAY above and beyond that. We’re talking the real and true presence of God. It’s is hard enough for my limited mind and faith to grasp that; it’s even harder if there’s inappropriate music in the background.

That is why the music and the lyrics have to be in synch. Plus, there is solemnity involved. Now, solemnity and joy are not mutually exclusive. But, the joy pierced by Sacred Music is a sublime joy that goes beyond the emotions and it cuts right through to the soul. Rock music doesn’t do that. In fact, it does the opposite. Just read what the former Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger said (it’s somewhere in this thread). That should help clear things up.

Today I had to live through an electric guitarist who knew only power chords, a drummer on an electronic drumset, and a few singers. Just not good.