Are Catholic women required to be beautiful?

[Sarcelle]

Beautiful as in physically beautiful or spiritually beautiful?

Think of St. Damien of Molokai, face ravaged by leprosy as he cared for lepers or Mother Theresa who cared for society’s rejects.

They may not pass muster on today’s Instagram but to me they are more beautiful than all the Instagram models combined.

 

[Sarcelle]

Hopefully it appears in the next installment.

 

[kainosktisis]

I don’t know that I want to see the next installment. The movie was unfortunately a huge fail for me.

 

[somecanadian]

It was just so bad. The latest one being the worst. Such a disappointment.

 

[Lea101]

I’m not a comic book fan, but I’ve seen versions of Wonder woman and they were often sexualised/sassy towards men all the time. I don’t know how accurate that version was, though. There are many variations. I actually liked this wonder woman because they managed to show both stereotypical femininity and masculinity in her character, and the guys in the movie were actually useful too. She came across as really genuine and endearing to a lot of people, which I think was why it was so successful.

 

[Lea101]

It’s like the very feminists who are trying to free women are also sending out the message that only masculinity is strong.

To be fair, it’s not like non feminists are somehow saying femininity is just as strong. There’s a reason why it is so ingrained in most of society(bc that’s the message that was common). I’ve stopped identifying myself with the current feminist movement but I’ve seen more of them defending feminine interests/dressing from guys a lot more than people who diss feminism. For example, defending women who enjoy fashion from guys that call them bimbos simply because of that. Lol. Most anti feminists tend to avoid gender discussions (and when they do, they tend to talk about traditional roles) which unfortunately benefits the liberal movements a lot more than they realize.

 

[Calliope]

Calliope:

I looked at a bunch of those photos and honestly they don’t come across as very Catholic or glorifying God. It’s a woman who knows she is sexually attractive and apparently gets someone to take photos of her in Church alot, and receiving communion. Like WHO DOES THAT? What normal person gets someone set up to take photos of them receiving communion bent over with their backsides poking out?

She’s a photographer who has a video camera set up for a wedding. She isn’t having anyone taking pictures of her, she captured a still from a video.

And how else do you perform a bow? If I don’t bow like that I either look like I’m just bobbing my head or I throw my back out. I swear I’m just going to go back to making the sign of the cross if people are going to be judging my posture like you are.

Most often, to my understanding, the videographer or photographer is behind the camera. I’ve never seen a photographer advertise or show off their work using photos they took of themselves. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, along with taking images of people receiving communion. That’s odd to me. I recall when I received first communion it being clearly stated by the priest that no photos were to be taken of the children receiving. Photos before and after the Mass, but not during. Maybe things have changed.

I am sorry if my noticing her posture offended you. You are correct, I have no authority of any kind to determine what is or is not the correct posture in which to receive. I was looking at the collection of photos overall and they appear to me to be serving the purpose of calling attention to her physical features, which is fine, but I find it odd to take that manner of photo of yourself during Mass.

 

[kainosktisis]

Most anti feminists tend to avoid gender discussions (and when they do, they tend to talk about traditional roles) which unfortunately benefits the liberal movements a lot more than they realize.

I don’t consider myself a feminist.

One of the things I remember as a kid was how feminism was supposed to make us more “free” - opening doors in the workforce. The military was one of those areas that was opened up for more service, & I’d served, but once I came home, it was to start a family. Something about serving in war has a way of driving people to want to procreate. I found out not long after the birth of my first child that some in the feminist movement turn up their noses & speak disdainfully at stay-at-home moms. They lost my vote from then on. Never mind the rude pink hats & handmaid’s tale costumes.

Interestingly enough I noted on YouTube that when Katy Perry donned a uniform for her “Part of Me” video, many whom I perceived as feminists dissed the video. They showed a complete lack of respect for service in the military, which I found amazing in light of the past push for more women in the military. I found it insulting.

 

[somecanadian]

I think there’s this concept of first wave feminism, second wave feminism and third wave (which we’re in now).

First wave feminism was the feminism that argued that women are capable of caring for themselves and should be allowed to make choices on their own (free of man’s interference). These were the women who fought for women to vote, fought for women to join the military if they wished, fought for women to be in the police force, fought for women’s right to live alone or go for walks after dark or any other thing they CHOSE to do on their own.

Third wave feminism seems to be all about victim culture. It’s the feminism that argues women are too delicate to handle offense. The feminism that tries to shut down men, demonizes masculinity because it’s ‘scary for women’ and in general treats women like special snowflakes that will melt under the slightest heat. Third wave feminism tells us that women are fragile, weak and need protection via laws and government interference.

Looking at what I’ve seen… I have to say I agree with the theory and would consider myself someone who agrees with what first wave feminism did but has serious issues with what third wave feminism is fighting for.

 

[Lara]

Exactly. A woman can do anything, scale Mount Everest, become President. But ask her to keep her baby at 16? Well that’s just far too hard to fathom for these feminists.

 

[somecanadian]

Didn’t you know? Babies are the worst things that can happen to a woman. They suck away our freedom and make us slaves to the home. We’re far too weak to handle it and too powerful to be strapped down by it. /heavy sarcasm

 

[Lara]

Perhaps you are far younger than I. When I was younger, I believed more in the anything-goes philosophy. But now I see that clothes and outward appearances can affect society positively. Some traditional values are attached to wearing a dress every so often, for instance, and can be promoted to younger women via older women.

There’s something pleasant about smelling a nice, faint perfume on your mother. I’m not saying we can keep up with all the markers of femininity, but try for a few.

The other day, I saw a woman wearing Dock Martins, a brown lumberjack shirt, tattoos, and other masculine things, but somehow, the fact that she died her hair blonde made her look more feminine. It saved her look.

I think we need to find some strength in delicacy and in charming people with feminine things. We don’t have to look like warriors. Read the “Glass Menagerie,” a play by Tennessee Williams for some inspiration.

 

[Sarcelle]

The so called traditional markers of femininity such as dresses is actually very culturally dependent. So is the wearing of perfume or heels.

A woman from a Pakistani background will wear the shalwar khameez or in Vietnam the ao dai both which involves loose trousers.

So wearing trousers or dresses by itself is not intrinsically masculine or feminine. Kilts come to mind which are traditionally worn by Scottish men.

I don’t know about hair color and how being blond is more feminine. Most women around the world are dark haired. Does not make them less feminine.

Adam and Eve when in the Garden and before the fall did not wear any clothes or perfume yet they were still unmistakably masculine and feminine respectively.

We are being backwards when we let superficial temporal things like clothes, perfume, shoes, etc. define timeless archetypes such as masculinity and femininity. It should be the other way round.

 

[somecanadian]

Femininity is absolutely about something internal, not external. Which is why when we read a book we make assumptions about a characters gender before hearing a description of them.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Most often, to my understanding, the videographer or photographer is behind the camera. I’ve never seen a photographer advertise or show off their work using photos they took of themselves. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, along with taking images of people receiving communion.

She and her sister work together. They do do photogragraphy for weddings meaning they are going to get as many angles as possible; that camera is probably on a tripod. They go to communion and it gets caught on camera. Those pics are on her personal IG and she has a separate IG for the business.

I recall when I received first communion it being clearly stated by the priest that no photos were to be taken of the children receiving. Photos before and after the Mass, but not during. Maybe things have changed.

This isn’t a first communion, it’s a wedding. She’s a professional, not one of dozens of parents who want a photo of the moment. Some parishes do spring for a professional photographer for first communion to keep multiple parents from suddenly appearing in the sanctuary during communion.

I was looking at the collection of photos overall and they appear to me to be serving the purpose of calling attention to her physical features, which is fine

She’s dressed nicely for the wedding. From reading her captions she did the wedding of a friend so she’s dressed as a wedding guest, not just a photographer.

but I find it odd to take that manner of photo of yourself during Mass.

If you looked at more than a couple of pictures you would see that she is not the only person that is on camera receiving communion. Like I said, a camera is on a tripod and anyone who passes by is going to get caught on video.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

The marketing etc is fine in itself from a “world” perspective,but I guess the ultimate question for me is is this version of “feminine beauty” a cultural notion,or is it a Catholic based notion/ideal?

Maybe neither? Perhaps it’s one woman’s personal style, her interests, her faith, and anything else that she chooses. I didn’t see any thing in which the woman whose IG you linked said that she is holding herself up as a feminine ideal nor is she suggesting what a “Catholic feminine ideal” unlike some people on this thread.

There’s nothing wrong in itself of being attractive (or not) or selling mantillas or other headscarf.
I just don’t think it’s purely coincidental the way it as a whole (for lack of better words) has been put together.

I think you are right but I don’t see that as a problem. A quick look at her accounts shows that she has a good eye for beauty and showcasing a subject.

At the same time though,I can’t help feeling something a bit tasteful if Catholic/ism goes down this same route too because women already receive enough of these messages in the world.

Again, she isn’t putting herself out as an ideal. That was you.

I’m aware of how Instagram type marketing campaigns work and the purpose of using certain models with a certain look is because often it is the “beauty ideal” that is really being sold and, believe it or not,not so much the product.
Using certain select Instagram “models” wearing your product will often sell your product more effectively than using others because what women/girls really are often buying is the dream moreso that the jewellery or swimwear etc that you are selling.

Ah. I just realized something. I have a couple of IG accounts. I follow a wide variety of things and the algorithms throw really odd things at times trying to show me what they think I want. Anyway, I follow a lot of hairstylists (and tattoo artists) and sometimes follow their models and the photographers if I like their accounts, too. Now when I say models, I’m not talking paid professional models, I mean they are clients who agreed to be photographed for IG or other portfolio. And the “model” usually posts the same pic on his or her IG. That’s what the woman you link is doing; she posed for her sister and she is posting those pics. What she is doing isn’t odd, but rather is one of the best uses of IG I’ve seen. She is modeling but I don’t see any suggestion from her that she thinks what she is doing is the only or best way to be a Catholic woman.

 

[Lea101]

They showed a complete lack of respect for service in the military, which I found amazing in light of the past push for more women in the military.

I think it’s more about not wanting women to be excluded rather than genuinely appreciating the army with them. Like how you have people wanting female priests even though they hate the Church.

I have to say I agree with the theory and would consider myself someone who agrees with what first wave feminism did but has serious issues with what third wave feminism is fighting for.

Yeah, same here I guess. Although I feel these waves of feminism isn’t so clear cut in reality and it’s simply for academic purposes. In reality, we see feminists who are pro life, pro/anti sex work, pro islam/anti Islam and so on. But I do get you’re referring to the most vocal and annoying one hahaha.

The other day, I saw a woman wearing Dock Martins, a brown lumberjack shirt, tattoos, and other masculine things, but somehow, the fact that she died her hair blonde made her look more feminine. It saved her look.

How is blonde hair more feminine though? Don’t you see how random and subjective these things are when one tries to label it as masculine/feminine?

Anyway, most women are ‘feminine’. Even Ellen Degeneres is feminine despite her attire and attraction to women. Ie if she was to change into a man and not change anything in the manner she talks, treat others and her mannerisms, people would not find her masculine at all. Same goes for most androgynous women, really.

The so called traditional markers of femininity such as dresses is actually very culturally dependent

Even behavior to some extent. I remember giving the example of how a Asian mom will be seen as a poor mother if she were to act like the sweet and gentle white housewife in her society. And how an Asian man will be seen as feminine to southern Americans.

 

[kainosktisis]

I think it’s more about not wanting women to be excluded rather than genuinely appreciating the army with them. Like how you have people wanting female priests even though they hate the Church.

Women hadn’t been completely excluded from the military. Maybe they may not have had a wide range of choices in specialties to serve in, but they did serve.

Women in the military - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

My next-door neighbor from my home town had served as one of the 1st Black WACs during WW2. She dealt w/ the prejudice of the time, but she served - & loved it.

 

[Calliope]

Calliope:

Most often, to my understanding, the videographer or photographer is behind the camera. I’ve never seen a photographer advertise or show off their work using photos they took of themselves. Maybe it’s a cultural thing, along with taking images of people receiving communion.

She and her sister work together. They do do photogragraphy for weddings meaning they are going to get as many angles as possible; that camera is probably on a tripod. They go to communion and it gets caught on camera. Those pics are on her personal IG and she has a separate IG for the business.

I recall when I received first communion it being clearly stated by the priest that no photos were to be taken of the children receiving. Photos before and after the Mass, but not during. Maybe things have changed.

This isn’t a first communion, it’s a wedding. She’s a professional, not one of dozens of parents who want a photo of the moment. Some parishes do spring for a professional photographer for first communion to keep multiple parents from suddenly appearing in the sanctuary during communion.

I was looking at the collection of photos overall and they appear to me to be serving the purpose of calling attention to her physical features, which is fine

She’s dressed nicely for the wedding. From reading her captions she did the wedding of a friend so she’s dressed as a wedding guest, not just a photographer.

but I find it odd to take that manner of photo of yourself during Mass.

If you looked at more than a couple of pictures you would see that she is not the only person that is on camera receiving communion. Like I said, a camera is on a tripod and anyone who passes by is going to get caught on video.

Again, perhaps it’s cultural differences. I’ve never seen anyone take video of the communion line, so it seems odd to me, but perhaps it’s common where she is doing her work.

I did look at quite a number of the photos. There isn’t anything objectionable in them, but since we were asked our opinion, mine is that she seems to be posting many photos glorifying her physical beauty, moreso than glorifying the faith. That’s how they come across to me, of a different culture. That may not be her intention or the way others see it, but it’s the way it comes across to me.

I’m not her spiritual director nor God, and I’m not condemning her work or her photos. Just stating how they appear to me.

 

[Melodeonist]

There is no such thing as “beauty”. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Some people are pretty pathetic and have a very narrow view of what is “beauty”. I say all women are beautiful. That’s just how God created them.