Are Catholic worshiping Mary? and the statues?

[TheBreak]

Let me first apologize for any misspelling, but English is not my first language.

One of the most common things I hear from other Christian when I tell them I follow the Catholic church, is that we are worshiping the saint Mary, even if we can’t see that.
Friend of mine told me via the internet that “Catholic worshiping Mary without they recognize it, also they are worshiping the statues by touching them as if they have something holy inside them”
Now let me say one thing, I watch Catholic channel and sometimes I see people touching the saint Mary statue and put around it many things, somehow I feel there is something not right in that? Maybe because of my background thinking.

I hope somebody could answer my question.

May God bless you all.

 

[MichaelHowling]

We honor her.

Statues are not worshipped…they are simply signs that lift our hearts and minds to God. They are reminders…like pictures of your family that you have in your home, that you might kiss, or even put flowers by…they simply are a reminder. We are not only spiritual beings but also physical beings. The church knows that and that’s why we have incense, statues, beautiful vestments, candles, bells etc etc …The physical can point us to the spiritual.

Mary, and all the saints are our brothers and sisters and they are living ! We honor them, we ask them to pray for us (this is very biblical…look at the book of revelation where it describes the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God).

lastly…look at the old testament.

God told the jewish people how to build the temple…He even asked for statues! Statues of angels! …they weren’t meant to be worship…but the mere sight of these beautiful things would remind you of the Holy, of heaven, of the amazing things in the temple and what the temple stood for!

The church teaches it’s a sin to worship ANYONE/ANYTHING but God alone. It also teaches that worshipping ANYTHING…including statues…is a horrible sin.

God bless!

 

[aidanbradypop]

We honor her.

Statues are not worshipped…they are simply signs that lift our hearts and minds to God. They are reminders…like pictures of your family that you have in your home, that you might kiss, or even put flowers by…they simply are a reminder. We are not only spiritual beings but also physical beings. The church knows that and that’s why we have incense, statues, beautiful vestments, candles, bells etc etc …The physical can point us to the spiritual.

Mary, and all the saints are our brothers and sisters and they are living ! We honor them, we ask them to pray for us (this is very biblical…look at the book of revelation where it describes the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God).

lastly…look at the old testament.

God told the jewish people how to build the temple…He even asked for statues! Statues of angels! …they weren’t meant to be worship…but the mere sight of these beautiful things would remind you of the Holy, of heaven, of the amazing things in the temple and what the temple stood for!

The church teaches it’s a sin to worship ANYONE/ANYTHING but God alone. It also teaches that worshipping ANYTHING…including statues…is a horrible sin.

God bless!

 

[Tantum_ergo]

If you have ever framed a picture of your loved ones and hung it in your room, or carried pictures of your children in your wallet to show to people, brought flowers to a loved one, etc., then you are doing exactly what Catholics do regarding Mary and the other saints.

If your pictures, gifts etc. to loved ones aren’t worshipping THEM, then our pictures, flowers etc. to loved ones who happen to be with Christ in heaven right now while we are still on earth, aren’t ‘worshipping’ those loved ones either.

 

[TheBreak]

Thank you guys, I CAN NOT ask for much better answers.

May God bless you all.

 

[pablope]

Let me first apologize for any misspelling, but English is not my first language.

One of the most common things I hear from other Christian when I tell them I follow the Catholic church, is that we are worshiping the saint Mary, even if we can’t see that.
Friend of mine told me via the internet that “Catholic worshiping Mary without they recognize it, also they are worshiping the statues by touching them as if they have something holy inside them”
Now let me say one thing, I watch Catholic channel and sometimes I see people touching the saint Mary statue and put around it many things, somehow I feel there is something not right in that? Maybe because of my background thinking.

I hope somebody could answer my question.

May God bless you all.

Well, have you seen, the President or head of state of any country, put flowers in war memorials for those killed in war…are they worshipping the memorial?

What was the intent of the flowers? The tribute to the war heroes?

Those who say this to you…ask them too…if they have placed flowers in the graves of their loved ones, be it their mother, a grandparent…by placing these flowers, are they worshipping the grave or what is the intent of the flowers?

 

[Filioque]

One thing that separates Catholic teachings and practices from what developed later on in Protestantism is that many Protestant groups consider those who have died as somehow being separated from us. As Catholics we understand that anyone who dies in a state of Grace is still a member of the same Church as us. Members of the Church be they here on earth, or in Purgatory or Heaven, are able to interceed before the throne of God, and to be honored for the virtues of their life which direct us to God.

Those who have gone before us who lived holy lives from their first breath to last, or those who have shown that God’s Grace could reform a notorious sinner, and transform them to a soul of great virtue, are still part of our spiritual family. From the earliest days of the Church they have been honored and asked to pray for us. Quite different from the Pagans who asked spirits to predict the future for them. In Christ we are all united.

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

Let me first apologize for any misspelling, but English is not my first language.

One of the most common things I hear from other Christian when I tell them I follow the Catholic church, is that we are worshiping the saint Mary, even if we can’t see that.
Friend of mine told me via the internet that “Catholic worshiping Mary without they recognize it, also they are worshiping the statues by touching them as if they have something holy inside them”
Now let me say one thing, I watch Catholic channel and sometimes I see people touching the saint Mary statue and put around it many things, somehow I feel there is something not right in that? Maybe because of my background thinking.

I hope somebody could answer my question.

May God bless you all.

There are individuals who worship Mary and pray directly to saints for help, and etc. but it is important to remember that they do so in opposition to Catholic doctrine. I remember as a kid growing up Catholic being taught to pray to saint such and such if I say lose something, but that was in opposition to Catholic doctrine.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

There are individuals who worship Mary and pray directly to saints for help, and etc. but it is important to remember that they do so in opposition to Catholic doctrine. I remember as a kid growing up Catholic being taught to pray to saint such and such if I say lose something, but that was in opposition to Catholic doctrine.

Wrong on a few levels. Whatever drove you to the Reformed church?

 

[Victor2211]

There are individuals who worship Mary and pray directly to saints for help, and etc. but it is important to remember that they do so in opposition to Catholic doctrine. I remember as a kid growing up Catholic being taught to pray to saint such and such if I say lose something, but that was in opposition to Catholic doctrine.

You are correct that worship of Mary is contrary to the Catholic faith. However, I would disagree with you when you say it is also wrong to pray directly to the saints. The saints intercede for us by praying with us to God. How else can we ask the saints to intercede for us if we don’t pray to them? There is Old Testament (Tobit 12:15) and New Testament (Revelation 5:8, 8:4) support for this.

 

[JRKH]

Let me first apologize for any misspelling, but English is not my first language.

One of the most common things I hear from other Christian when I tell them I follow the Catholic church, is that we are worshiping the saint Mary, even if we can’t see that.
Friend of mine told me via the internet that “Catholic worshiping Mary without they recognize it, also they are worshiping the statues by touching them as if they have something holy inside them”
Now let me say one thing, I watch Catholic channel and sometimes I see people touching the saint Mary statue and put around it many things, somehow I feel there is something not right in that? Maybe because of my background thinking.

I hope somebody could answer my question.

May God bless you all.

I find it terribly frustrating when people say such things because it clearly indicates that a) they don’t know what they are talking about and b) they are not open to having their false belief corrected.

Now - That said - I too become uncomfortable with some of the devotions and acts that I have seen. But you know - Nowhere does the Church requires these things. They are private devotions and not part of Church teaching.
The Church is quite clear in her teachings bout what is proper veneration and the teachings is what we are to follow.

Peace
James

 

[tabycat]

Friend of mine told me via the internet that "Catholic worshiping Mary without they recognize it, also they are worshiping the statues by touching them as if they have something holy inside them

May God bless you all.

I do not think your friend has thought out his belief that a person can worship a person (Mary) or a thing (a statue) without knowing they are worshiping the person or thing.

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I do not think your friend has thought out his belief that a person can worship a person (Mary) or a thing (a statue) without knowing they are worshiping the person or thing.

Agreed. True worship is from the heart; you can’t accidentally worship anything, in my opinion.

Honestly, with some of the accusations flung at Catholics about our worship, I am sometimes concerned about our accusers. After all, if a person can confuse** true** veneration with worship— what does that say about the worship that person is offering to the Lord? Seems like a person like that doesn’t have the faintest clue what true worship is. If, however, one knows what Catholic worship really is, what (Who) the Eucharist really is, then they could NEVER, EVER confuse our worship with the veneration of a saint.

But that is only if they are witnessing true veneration as the Catholic Churches teaches and permits. I agree with James’ comment in the previous post and I think that some Catholics do take their veneration too far. They do not understand the line between veneration and worship. That is not to say that I think that they are accidentally worshiping Mary, only that they are going over the top and giving others a wrong understanding of true veneration.For example, I knew a Catholic who once stood up to give praise and said “I’d like to give *all *praise, thanksgiving, honor, and glory to Mary for my answered prayer”. No mention of Jesus or God, just all glory to Mary. Sorry, that is getting carried away, in my opinion. Below are some guidelines from Lumen Gentium regarding the Blessed Mother-- paragraph 65.

“(the Holy Synod) exhorts theologians and preachers of the divine word to abstain zealously both from all gross exaggerations as well as from petty narrow-mindedness in considering the singular dignity of the Mother of God.”

“Let them assiduously keep away from whatever, either by word or deed, could lead separated brethren or any other into error regarding the true doctrine of the Church. Let the faithful remember moreover that true devotion consists neither in sterile or transitory affection, nor in a certain vain credulity, but proceeds from true faith, by which we are led to know the excellence of the Mother of God, and we are moved to a filial love toward our mother and to the imitation of her virtues.”

 

[JRKH]

I am not so sure that one cannot “worship” something without knowing it.
Jesus comment about not being able to serve two masters comes to mind.
19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 22 "The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is sound, your whole body will be full of light; 23 but if your eye is not sound, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness! 24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. (Mt 6)
(Bolding mine)
I know that the word “worship” is not used here…and certainly we can argue particulars… but the basic idea I wish to convey is that Jesus audience would not have thought they were serving mammon instead of God.
Probably they - like us - would have thought of these things as somewhat separate items.
So - If one can “serve mammon” at the expense of God - without ones explicit knowledge, it might also be possible to serve other things inappropriately at the expense of God.

I’m not saying pointing fingers or saying that anyone here does this, I am merely proposing that if one can “serve” the wrong thing without realizing it (often by “slipping” into it gradually) then one could conceivably slip into “worshiping” the wrong thing without realizing it.

Just a thought

Peace
James

 

[bmonk]

One thing that separates Catholic teachings and practices from what developed later on in Protestantism is that many Protestant groups consider those who have died as somehow being separated from us. As Catholics we understand that anyone who dies in a state of Grace is still a member of the same Church as us. Members of the Church be they here on earth, or in Purgatory or Heaven, are able to interceed before the throne of God, and to be honored for the virtues of their life which direct us to God.

Those who have gone before us who lived holy lives from their first breath to last, or those who have shown that God’s Grace could reform a notorious sinner, and transform them to a soul of great virtue, are still part of our spiritual family. From the earliest days of the Church they have been honored and asked to pray for us. Quite different from the Pagans who asked spirits to predict the future for them. In Christ we are all united.

This is included in the Creed (Apostles’ Creed) as “The communion of saints” – that the saints already in heaven, as well as the members of Christ’s Body here on earth, and those destined for heaven but who still need purifying, are all united in the Body of Christ, since death has no power over Christ anymore.

“There are not one hundred people in the United States who hate The Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they wrongly perceive the Catholic Church to be.”
― Fulton J. Sheen

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

Wrong on a few levels. Whatever drove you to the Reformed church?

You can’t ignore the fact that there are people who do not venerate, but worship Mary. The church doesn’t sanction this obviously, but it still exists. TULIP brought me to it

 

[PaulinePresbytr]

You are correct that worship of Mary is contrary to the Catholic faith. However, I would disagree with you when you say it is also wrong to pray directly to the saints. The saints intercede for us by praying with us to God. How else can we ask the saints to intercede for us if we don’t pray to them? There is Old Testament (Tobit 12:15) and New Testament (Revelation 5:8, 8:4) support for this.

From what I understand the Church distinguishes between communication within the communion of saints to ask for intercession and prayer to God. So I suppose you could say there are 2 different kinds of prayers, with 1 being asking for intercession and the other being asking for direct help (reserved for God alone)

 

[JRKH]

You can’t ignore the fact that there are people who do not venerate, but worship Mary. The church doesn’t sanction this obviously, but it still exists.

You are right…we are not to ignore this. If and when we find it occurring we need to advise the person of their error.

Peace
James

 

[Mark121359]

You can’t ignore the fact that there are people who do not venerate, but worship Mary. The church doesn’t sanction this obviously, but it still exists. TULIP brought me to it

This is problematic to me. Who is the judge of this? Just because some one claims this doesn’t mean it’s true. Now I’m not saying that there aren’t any cases of Mary worship, but not as many that are claimed on these forums! I get the feeling that to some on here that if a person doesn’t have any devotion at all to Mary, and they see for instance someone in Church kneeling before a statue of Mary in deep prayer…then somehow that constitutes “Mary worship” I hate to think what you would think of Pope John Paul the Great! Correct me if I’m wrong, but he had an ***intense *** love for Our Lady. Totus Tuus was Pope John Paul II’s apostolic motto. It’s Latin meaning “totally yours” and expressed his personal Consecration to Mary based on Saint Louis de Montfort and the Mariology in his works. Yes, you heard that correctly. John Paul II saying to Mary that he was “totally hers”! To Jesus through Mary. I think that he’s the finest Pope in my lifetime, and maybe even ever. Sadly, I think we Catholics let criticism from people of other faiths cloud our judgement, and the subject of Mary is definitely one of them IMHO. Don’t be fooled by this criticism and miss out on one very special Lady… the Holy Mother of God. I’ve heard her called “God’s Masterpiece” to which I say Amen! I wholeheartedly agree! As Pope John Paul the Great would say "Oh Maria, Totus Tuus!

Peace, Mark

 

[JRKH]

This is problematic to me. Who is the judge of this?

Who is to judge? The Church mainly, but the issue/question/concern can come up in any number of ways.
If we take our cue on how to handle the matter from Mt 18:15-18 - it would begin as a quiet discussion between individuals and bringing in more individuals and insights as needed to clear up the matter…but of course ultimately relying on the teachings of the Church.

Just because some one claims this doesn’t mean it’s true. Now I’m not saying that there aren’t any cases of Mary worship, but not as many that are claimed on these forums!

Pauline made no comment on the quantity of “Mary worship” only that it does (at least in her experience) exist. Something that you yourself do not deny here. Let’s not read into a person’s post something that is not there.

I get the feeling that to some on here that if a person doesn’t have any devotion at all to Mary, and they see for instance someone in Church kneeling before a statue of Mary in deep prayer…then somehow that constitutes “Mary worship”

So who’s judging now?..
Seriously - there are those who struggle with the various forms, levels, types and expressions of Marion devotion. I’ve seen it from both sides of the fence. I’ve seen things that fit your description above, and I’ve seen the opposite, where if one does not a deep and intense devotion to Mary they are looked as just this side of being a heretic.
In both cases the views show a narrowness of outlook and unchristian attitude that frankly I think our Lady would find offensive.

I hate to think what you would think of Pope John Paul the Great! Correct me if I’m wrong, but he had an ***intense *** love for Our Lady. Totus Tuus was Pope John Paul II’s apostolic motto. It’s Latin meaning “totally yours” and expressed his personal Consecration to Mary based on Saint Louis de Montfort and the Mariology in his works. Yes, you heard that correctly. John Paul II saying to Mary that he was “totally hers”! To Jesus through Mary. I think that he’s the finest Pope in my lifetime, and maybe even ever.

Yes - you are correct. JP II did have this intense devotion to Our Lady. A private devotion by the way. One that a person is free to investigate and embrace or not. (referring to Saint Louis de Montfort here).

Sadly, I think we Catholics let criticism from people of other faiths cloud our judgement, and the subject of Mary is definitely one of them IMHO. Don’t be fooled by this criticism and miss out on one very special Lady… the Holy Mother of God. I’ve heard her called “God’s Masterpiece” to which I say Amen! I wholeheartedly agree! As Pope John Paul the Great would say "Oh Maria, Totus Tuus!

Good for you Mark…Totus Tuus…
Others, especially those coming into the Church, only ask that it be recognized it takes time to come to understand and embrace many of these things. And that some things may never feel comfortable to them.

{quote]Peace, Mark
Peace to you too my friend.

James