Are Catholics allowed to eat balut (boiled duck embryo) on Fridays during Lent?

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Thank you for pointing out my error. I will rectify my earlier statement accordingly.

If the “life begins at conception” rule meant that balut is banned, it would necessarily also mean that all fertilized eggs are banned.
 
So Balut is acceptable as long as were immaculately conceived! 😛
 
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Somebody probably said this, but it’s worth pointing out that in the Latin/Roman Rite, the fasting regulations are defined by canon law, which is written in Latin.

“Carnis” isn’t meat, per se. It’s red meat, of a land animal, that isn’t in an egg.

Now, if we were still doing the “black fast” during Lent, like medieval Latins did, or like in Ireland and certain other hardcore areas up into the late 1800’s, we also wouldn’t be allowed to eat any dairy (including butter, cheese, milk, etc.) or any eggs (except fish eggs, of course!). We’d be allowed to eat beans, nuts, veggies, fruits, and meat that wasn’t “carnis” – the meat of water animals. So yes, of course fish and seafood are animals with meat. But they aren’t land animals.

OTOH, we would be allowed to eat any water animal or fowl that wasn’t defined as “carnis.” (Such as muskrat, capybara, and barnacle geese, which for various local reasons were defined as more water critters than “carnis” land animals.) People also knew that whales and dolphins and seals weren’t fish, but they weren’t land animals as defined by “carnis.” So if you wanted to eat them, you could. You were a lot more likely to eat sea fish, seafood, river fish, river mussels, and pond-raised critters, though. Waterfowl like ducks were usually prohibited, but sometimes bishops made some strange calls – usually if they lived in remote areas where food was running short in winter, or where obtaining protein fasting foods was difficult all year.

The main thing to remember is that it’s not about how your local bishop defines “carnis,” or what indults he puts into play for compassionate reasons, or because of local traditions and holidays. On the Eastern side of things, where the Lenten fast is so “hardcore,” every pastor reserves the right to make fasting adjustments for every one of his individual parishioners! Sometimes very few people in a Byzantine parish are fit enough or unbusy with work enough to carry out the whole fast in its ideal form – and that’s okay!

The important thing is to remember that Lent is about contrition, and about doing penance for our own sins and those of others. It’s about spiritual growth. We are spiritual athletes, but not competing against each other. We are all running a marathon, where the goal is Christ and eternal life. The important thing is to try hard and not quit running.

If you were training for the Olympics, your coach would tailor what you ate and drank to your own personal needs and to local conditions. The bishops try to do the same thing.
 
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Mintaka said:
OTOH, we would be allowed to eat any water animal or fowl that wasn’t defined as “carnis.” (Such as muskrat, capybara, and barnacle geese, which for various local reasons were defined as more water critters than “carnis” land animals.)
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Yes, same for dugong
 
I went to a seminary over the summer, and I asked one of the priests there:

“Father, May we eat locusts on Saturdays and Sundays during Lent?”

He answered “You shouldn’t be eating locusts at all!”

I replied “Father, doesn’t it say in the Gospel that St. John the Baptist ate locusts?”

His answer was “Yes, but you are not St. John the Baptist! In the history of the church, there have been extreme examples of people who lived in the wilderness and had nothing to eat but crickets. But if you have access to other foods, it is better to not eat meat on fasting days.”

My reply was “Yes, but you know how on Saturdays and Sundays during Lent the fast is lightened and we can eat fish, dairy, eggs, and honey. So can we eat locusts?”

Finally, his answer was “Ok, you can eat locusts.”

As you can see, for us Orthodox Christians, the Lenten fasting rules are much stricter. We have to go strictly vegan on weekdays (Monday through Friday) during Lent, and only on Saturdays and Sundays during Lent is the fast lightened (fish, dairy, eggs, and honey are allowed)

You Catholics must have it real easy, complaining about having to eat muskrat during Lent! 😆
 
Do you know if there are any Catholics who still do the “black fast” during Lent? The rules seem even stricter than they are for us Orthodox Christians.

No more than one meal per day is permitted
Flesh meat, eggs, butter, cheese, and milk are forbidden
The meal was not allowed until after sunset
Alcohol is forbidden
During Holy Week, the meal consists exclusively of bread, salt, herbs, and water

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Fast

That makes the Catholic Lent look even stricter than the Orthodox Lent! 😆
 
Sorry about going on and on – hadn’t heard about the dugongs before this thread, btw.

Balut wouldn’t seem to have worked under the old no-egg Lenten laws.

However, it’s an animal contained in an egg, so it’s not “carnis”; and thus it would be okay under the newer Lent rules of fasting and abstinence, and would always have been okay on Fridays throughout the year. So it’s kind of an oddity, but it’s not a contradiction.

Btw, if you are interested in what counts and what doesn’t, a lot of old cookbooks from Catholic countries have long sections on Lent cooking, and what is suitable on various types of fast days, under the rules that were current in that country. Obviously this was a big thing for the French!

You can also dig out books like Theologia Moralis by St. Alphonsus de Liguori, where they go into great detail about the various theories of acceptable fasting food categories. You may recall (from threads elsewhere on the site) Liguori’s rather generous approach to Massgoing requirements, and his long list for the overly concerned of which few Italian cusswords are actually blasphemous instead of just stupid or colorful. So I have full faith in his ability to go into footnoted detail to soothe people’s worries!

But you’re better off digging up the Latin if you can, because a lot of the English “translations” of the man’s Moral Theology book are… um… slightly abridged. By several hundred pages.
 
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There may be some religious orders who still do the Black Fast. I assume it’s mostly ornery old Irish laypeople, though, and they’re doing it by their own choice.

This is the thing that cracks me up, though. People used to have all these books out on Celtic spirituality, and how Irish and Scottish saints were all lovely and gentle.

But if you spend three minutes researching Celtic spirituality as practiced by medieval and modern Celtic people, it is often all about walking barefoot all night on hard rocks, or climbing mountains, or doing really really extensive fasting when it isn’t even scheduled. The Irish saints were mostly ascetic saints, and they wanted to pass up the desert Egyptian saints and leave them in their dust.

Which is not to say that they also didn’t love God, their fellow humans, nature, foxes, birds, and trees, or knowledge and Scripture. But the love of God and Creation came out of their asceticism for God.

Similarly, one reason that the saints’ feasts (like St. Patrick’s Day, when it didn’t fall in Lent) were a big occasion was that there had been fasting the day before.

So if you think that eating nothing but seaweed and water on Good Friday sounds fitting and a little festive – you might just be Irish.

Re: locusts – Yup, insects have always been considered okay for Christians to eat during any kind of fast (as long as it isn’t just bread and water, or just water, or just nothing). They are covered by the Biblical category of “creeping things,” so they definitely aren’t “carnis” even if they live on land. Same thing with reptiles and amphibians; they are “creeping things.”

Worms and grubs are also okay, although if you’re so hungry for protein that you are fiddling for earthworms, you are pretty hungry.
 
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There is very little that isn’t tasty if you fry it in oil.

Of course, you have to be doing a fast that permits butter or non-dairy oil…

But wait! Now we have “air fryers” and air frying baking sheets! Now everyone can fry stuff for Lent!
 
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7MessRobHackOpen said:
As you can see, for us Orthodox Christians, the Lenten fasting rules are much stricter. We have to go strictly vegan on weekdays (Monday through Friday) during Lent, and only on Saturdays and Sundays during Lent is the fast lightened (fish, dairy, eggs, and honey are allowed)

You Catholics must have it real easy, complaining about having to eat muskrat during Lent! 😆
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What do you know,there are many Catholic, who do follow strictly fasts too the whole of lent,well we concentrate more on the inside out. 😄
 
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I think it’s normal for people to focus on the rules when they are feeling discouraged.

A lot like a marathon, indeed –

When people are running well, they look around and plan and learn things.

When they are getting exhausted, all they can think about is getting to the next water station, and counting the miles until they are done.

If you’re not discouraged, ever, you’re probably not pushing yourself. But if you’re not having a good time, ever, you are probably doing it wrong and killing yourself. There has to be a happy medium.
 
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Mintaka said:
They are covered by the Biblical category of “creeping things,” so they definitely aren’t “carnis” even if they live on land.
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I don’t think locusts are included among “creeping things,” which in Biblical Hebrew is usually taken to mean animals with short legs which move with a scuttling motion. That would include many insects such as beetles, but also reptiles such as lizards and crocodiles. Locusts, which are closely related to the grasshoppers, have long legs and jump. Several species of locust – four, I think, from memory – were kosher in the Herodian period, and maybe still are, though I don’t suppose anyone eats them nowadays.
 
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Mintaka said:
There is very little that isn’t tasty if you fry it in oil.

Of course, you have to be doing a fast that permits butter or non-dairy oil…
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That’s the kind of fast that most Catholics do, from my observation of fish frys during the Lenten season in these parts.
 
Ooh, interesting question.

Well, it’s possible that I’m remembering it wrong, and it’s possible that it’s one of those things that gets categorized differently by different sources. Probably the real rule is “John the Baptist did it, and Elijah did it, and it’s good enough for you young punk monks. Shut up and eat your nice locusts, before they eat everybody’s crops.”
 
Re: non-dairy oil – It’s not a problem for Latins today, but it would have been a consideration in your medieval or early Renaissance cookbook.

Grilled fish – not just okay, but following Our Lord’s cuisine tips!

Fried fish – okay on normal medieval Fridays, but not during medieval Lent!

Oh, yeah, and I forgot stuff like octopuses and starfish, or actual barnacles (the living animal part). Also not “carnis.”

(Heh. It’s not so much that I love rules, as that I love to look at the ramifications of logical systems. It’s a pleasure for me to see how people respond to edge cases and distinctions.)
 
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No conception if the eggs aren’t fertilized.
 
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