Tis_Bearself
Patron
I ate some mealworms and cheese on a Friday recently when I was abstaining and at the fair. I figured mealworms didn’t count as meat.
Are Catholics allowed to eat balut (boiled duck embryo) on Fridays during Lent?
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Tis_Bearself
Patron
I think if you look at the Eastern Catholics, they tend to have stricter fasting rules.
Latin Catholics nowadays are pretty free to pick foods, apart from excluding meat (which leaves you with all kinds of fish, seafood, salad, eggs, dairy, bread, non-meat sandwich fillings, etc) as the fast is based more on meal size and not eating between meals than excluding foods. Having said that, devout Catholics sometimes do choose a pretty rigorous fast on their own. For example, bread and water, or bread and a cup of soup, or a piece of fruit for a meal. Or even going all day eating nothing.
Today is a fast and abstinence day for me and I haven’t eaten yet and just now figuring out what I will have. I am leaning towards having a pretzel for breakfast and a yogurt cup with some fruit and granola for lunch, as they both meet the fasting rules, are nutritious, are likely enough food that I’ll be able to work at my job tasks, and I don’t terribly like either one. Also, I’m not having coffee today.
Latin Catholics nowadays are pretty free to pick foods, apart from excluding meat (which leaves you with all kinds of fish, seafood, salad, eggs, dairy, bread, non-meat sandwich fillings, etc) as the fast is based more on meal size and not eating between meals than excluding foods. Having said that, devout Catholics sometimes do choose a pretty rigorous fast on their own. For example, bread and water, or bread and a cup of soup, or a piece of fruit for a meal. Or even going all day eating nothing.
Today is a fast and abstinence day for me and I haven’t eaten yet and just now figuring out what I will have. I am leaning towards having a pretzel for breakfast and a yogurt cup with some fruit and granola for lunch, as they both meet the fasting rules, are nutritious, are likely enough food that I’ll be able to work at my job tasks, and I don’t terribly like either one. Also, I’m not having coffee today.
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Mintaka
Guest
Putting the meal in mealworms… 
I wouldn’t want to eat stuff like that all the time, but it’s good to have the experience. And heck, that way we know that we can, if we ever needed to!
Yes, I looked up fasting in Liguori’s Moral Theology. And yes, he has a big ol’ chapter on it, in the section on the Precepts of the Church. He had to write extensively about fasting exceptions, because he was living at a time when there were Jansenists with crazy severity, and also a lot of extremely lax Catholics.
So yes, if they can’t reasonably get fasting food or eat their food in a single meal, etc, poor people are totally excused from all the fasting regulations, as they need to be excused! They don’t have to ask anybody’s permission for a dispensation; it’s just an impossibility for them.
And yes, pregnant or nursing women are not only totally excused from fasting, but can actually commit a sin by fasting too much. (The authorities allow as how an exceptionally healthy young lady can maybe fast a tad while pregnant or nursing, but they’re a lot comfier with pregnant ladies being sometimes allowed to eat meat.) Anybody with a sick kid in danger is totally excused from all fasting regs.
And yup, you are automatically excused from fasting if it gives you a headache. (Not from abstaining from meat.) Same thing if fasting keeps you from sleeping at night, which I didn’t know was a thing.
Soldiers are excused from fasting regs if they are living communally with other soldiers who aren’t Catholic, before you even get to them being excused if they are doing hard work, fighting, being on watch, etc. (This is an interesting issue, because of course there were notorious historical/Biblical cases of soldiers fasting and being rewarded in battle, and just as many historical cases of soldiers losing battles in Lent due to weakness from excessive fasting. So it’s a prudence thing.)
Very educational!
I wouldn’t want to eat stuff like that all the time, but it’s good to have the experience. And heck, that way we know that we can, if we ever needed to!Yes, I looked up fasting in Liguori’s Moral Theology. And yes, he has a big ol’ chapter on it, in the section on the Precepts of the Church. He had to write extensively about fasting exceptions, because he was living at a time when there were Jansenists with crazy severity, and also a lot of extremely lax Catholics.
So yes, if they can’t reasonably get fasting food or eat their food in a single meal, etc, poor people are totally excused from all the fasting regulations, as they need to be excused! They don’t have to ask anybody’s permission for a dispensation; it’s just an impossibility for them.
And yes, pregnant or nursing women are not only totally excused from fasting, but can actually commit a sin by fasting too much. (The authorities allow as how an exceptionally healthy young lady can maybe fast a tad while pregnant or nursing, but they’re a lot comfier with pregnant ladies being sometimes allowed to eat meat.) Anybody with a sick kid in danger is totally excused from all fasting regs.
And yup, you are automatically excused from fasting if it gives you a headache. (Not from abstaining from meat.) Same thing if fasting keeps you from sleeping at night, which I didn’t know was a thing.
Soldiers are excused from fasting regs if they are living communally with other soldiers who aren’t Catholic, before you even get to them being excused if they are doing hard work, fighting, being on watch, etc. (This is an interesting issue, because of course there were notorious historical/Biblical cases of soldiers fasting and being rewarded in battle, and just as many historical cases of soldiers losing battles in Lent due to weakness from excessive fasting. So it’s a prudence thing.)
Very educational!
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Mintaka
Guest
Okay, just had to share this –
One of the authorities Liguori quoted, said that it was okay for “a girl about to be married” to skip fasting, “if she should fear that fasting would make her ugly.” (deformari, to spoil one’s looks or shape.)
Another authority said, fine, but how would anybody fear being made ugly by fasting in the normal Church way?
(I presume this was from the days when a girl wanted to be “pleasingly plump,” and thus had no desire to diet her way into a smaller wedding gown.)
One of the authorities Liguori quoted, said that it was okay for “a girl about to be married” to skip fasting, “if she should fear that fasting would make her ugly.” (deformari, to spoil one’s looks or shape.)
Another authority said, fine, but how would anybody fear being made ugly by fasting in the normal Church way?
(I presume this was from the days when a girl wanted to be “pleasingly plump,” and thus had no desire to diet her way into a smaller wedding gown.)
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Mintaka
Guest
I found the section on fasting and abstinence foods, which was at the very beginning of the Precepts of the Church chapter. Very interesting.
Liguori was writing at a time when the general law was still that Lent was a “black fast,” but there were already many places where people were allowed to eat dairy and eggs by their bishops. (And fasting days outside of Lent were a different story.)
He explains that dairy (lacticinii) and eggs (ova) were included in the fast originally because eggs “are drawn from animals” that are “carnis,” while milk nurses animals that are “carnis.” They can be excluded because “the essence of abstinence is abstinence from meat.” But it’s not permitted to go the other way, and forbid dairy and eggs while permitting meat. Also, if you are permitted dairy and eggs in Lent fasting, you are also permitted to eat a second snack or small meal.
So to go back to the original question, balut would be a case of an egg that is drawn from an animal. It’s not whether it’s alive or fertilized or not; it’s whether it’s an egg or not. A newly hatched chick would have gotten out of its shell, and would therefore become “carnis.”
Liguori was writing at a time when the general law was still that Lent was a “black fast,” but there were already many places where people were allowed to eat dairy and eggs by their bishops. (And fasting days outside of Lent were a different story.)
He explains that dairy (lacticinii) and eggs (ova) were included in the fast originally because eggs “are drawn from animals” that are “carnis,” while milk nurses animals that are “carnis.” They can be excluded because “the essence of abstinence is abstinence from meat.” But it’s not permitted to go the other way, and forbid dairy and eggs while permitting meat. Also, if you are permitted dairy and eggs in Lent fasting, you are also permitted to eat a second snack or small meal.
So to go back to the original question, balut would be a case of an egg that is drawn from an animal. It’s not whether it’s alive or fertilized or not; it’s whether it’s an egg or not. A newly hatched chick would have gotten out of its shell, and would therefore become “carnis.”
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neophyte
Guest
Balut is the only thing I’ve ever eaten that was delicious but I couldn’t finish because I knew what it was.
My Cambodian friend says “no way man, don’t look at it! Just eat it.”
My Cambodian friend says “no way man, don’t look at it! Just eat it.”
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Mintaka
Guest
I don’t blame you.
The one I had to close my eyes and finish was a dish of three different ways to cook octopus. I was okay with the first two, which were just chunked up; but the third was baby octopus cooked whole. They looked kinda cute, and I felt sad for them. But they tasted delicious…
Oh, and I just found a canon law definition of “carnis.” It’s meat from “animals that sleep and breathe on land.” So yeah, that explains the marine mammal exception.
It also means we can eat outer space animals during Lent. But there would probably be some legitimate argument as to whether “in terra” includes the surface of other planetary bodies, habitats inside spaceships and space stations, critters that live in planetary atmospheres and never touch ground, etc. (I’m pretty sure that eating Moon-farmed beef during Lent would be cheating.)
OTOH, it does mean that those genetically engineered veggie burgers with plant cells that taste like blood are probably in the clear, but lab-grown meat would probably still constitute “carnis.” (Because cells respirate too, and because the original cells would have come from animals anyway.)
The one I had to close my eyes and finish was a dish of three different ways to cook octopus. I was okay with the first two, which were just chunked up; but the third was baby octopus cooked whole. They looked kinda cute, and I felt sad for them. But they tasted delicious…
Oh, and I just found a canon law definition of “carnis.” It’s meat from “animals that sleep and breathe on land.” So yeah, that explains the marine mammal exception.
It also means we can eat outer space animals during Lent. But there would probably be some legitimate argument as to whether “in terra” includes the surface of other planetary bodies, habitats inside spaceships and space stations, critters that live in planetary atmospheres and never touch ground, etc. (I’m pretty sure that eating Moon-farmed beef during Lent would be cheating.)
OTOH, it does mean that those genetically engineered veggie burgers with plant cells that taste like blood are probably in the clear, but lab-grown meat would probably still constitute “carnis.” (Because cells respirate too, and because the original cells would have come from animals anyway.)
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neophyte
Guest
Oh, I LOVE octopus! Whole baby octopus, stuffed with dolphin mousse and served with ink sauce!! YUM!
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Octopi are too much Bambi factor for me. They’re cute and very smart. I’ll eat something that has less personality, thanks.
A
Augustinian
Guest
The octopus has been identified as having extra-terrestrial origins.
www.dailymail.co.uk
Controversial theory claims life on Earth was seeded by alien viruses
A bizarre and widely dismissed theory known as panspermia argues that life on Earth was seeded by biological material transported from elsewhere in the universe.
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neophyte
Guest
Dolphin is the correct Engish name for the fish that in Spanish is called dorado and in Hawaiian is called mahi-mahi.
The mammal you are probably thinking of is properly called the bottlenose dolphin.
G
guanophore
Guest
I have never been hungry enough to eat something like this, but I have eaten a great many fertilized open range farm chicken eggs..
Eggs sold in the grocery are unfertilized eggs, so that they will not have the tiny speck on the yolk.
Technically, the fertilized egg is an “embryo”, though it is not far enough developed to have muscle tissue, and therefore, is not “meat” just yet.
It looks to me like the balut is developed sufficiently to have muscle tissue. I think I would prefer a day of fasting.
K
kgmlg
Guest
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