Are Catholics anti-Semitic?

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afiala2

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No.

Israel is God’s chosen people. Jesus came to save the Jews first, then the world (Matt. 10:5-6, 15:24). Catholicism sees itself as the fulfillment of Jewish Prophesy. The NT is full of references to the OT and other Jewish writings. If we lose our Jewish ties, we no longer have an argument to have been founded by The Messiah, the Son of God.
One must remember that if you are attacking the NT as anti-Semitic, you are attacking the RCC. The RCC wrote, gathered, and approved the books that were included in the NT, through what we believe to be the Divine Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The accusation of Catholicism being anti-Semitic is a huge anti-Catholic whopper, if I ever heard one. Jesus who we believe is God and man was a Jew. His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary who we hold in more honor and esteem than any other human, was a good faithful Jew. His foster-Father Joseph and His original Apostles were all Jews in nationality and faith. That is until they became Catholic of course, but in nationality they are Jewish or a part of Israel. Catholicism could/should be viewed as the New Jewish faith or New Covenant started by the Son, The Messiah. We believe salvation comes from the Jews in the person of Jesus Christ, who was a descendent of David. We hold men like Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Solomon in high esteem along with the prophets like Jeremiah. These men and their stories and teachings are in our OT which we also consider to be The Word of God along with the NT. The OT is almost ¾ of the length of the entire Catholic Bible which is made up of Jewish teachings and Jewish Prophets. OT has 46 books, while NT only has 27, which means majority of what we believe is very Jewish in content and origin. We believe we are the New Israel where we are all inclusive of all nations not just the Jews, but Gentiles alike. We are the exact opposite of being discriminatory. If Catholics were to be anti-Semitic, we would be discriminatory against ourselves as we are either actually Jews or believe we are 'adopted Jews’ as a part of God’s family if we are Gentiles.
My wife, through whom our kids are also, is of Jewish decent in race/nationality but not faith, while I am a gentile. But we share the Catholic faith. But if we didn’t believe Christ was the Messiah, my family would most decidedly be Jewish in faith that is if I would be accepted as a gentile and my family as not being fully Jewish in decent.
The perceived “anti-Semitic” -ness of the NT isn’t there; people can have warped perceptions about a lot of things. Just because someone says something unintelligent doesn’t mean they are right. In the NT, Jesus was actually calling out the leaders of the day and saying why aren’t you being better Jews or why aren’t you observing the laws Moses gave you. It was Jesus’ place to say this because He is the Son of God, the Only begotten Son of the God of Israel, sent by His Father to save the world. If someone does something bad, when you recount the story the antagonist of the story will always sound bad, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true and accurate or that it automatically becomes the source of future hatred. Rather the hatred towards Jesus in the story should show the reader how pointless hatred is and that you should never want anyone to suffer the way Jesus did, if you have any compassion in your heart.
Rather people who are trying to be like the Nazis and not completely condemning the horrific actions of the Nazis are to blame for any continued hatred being spread. Remember Nazis killed Catholics too; St. Maximilian Kolbe was put to death by the Nazis. Many Catholics lost their lives because they were “Jewish sympathizers”. Where does it say you should kill people and persecute people in the NT? Nazis weren’t quoting the NT as their battle cry, and even if someone someday does, it doesn’t mean it is in the NT. It just means those hate filled people hate Catholicism. The only thing the NT is against is sin and death.
 
God wants what is best for each individual and society as a whole, that’s why He sent us His Son to teach us who gave us a Church which gave us the NT. But it is the Church that safeguards The Bible’s interpretation, something many people ignore. So if people are attacking the NT, it is an argument no one should be interpreting the NT outside the RCC because we don’t promote killing like some “Christian” denominations do who accept abortion as morally good. These same “Christian” denominations also claim to use the Bible as their sole source of faith unlike Catholics. Rather murder is a violation of God’s command thou shall not kill (Exodus 20:13). Wanting to persecute and do harm to someone is in the same vain as killing them, not a Christian thing to do. Some people call themselves Christian citing the NT but don’t follow or teach what Christ taught and that is the source of confusion on the subject not the NT itself. Similar to the KKK saying it is Christian to kill blacks or burn crosses. By the way, the KKK doesn’t like Catholics either. Someone saying the NT is anti-Semitic is simply someone with a vendetta against the RCC or is just very confused.
Now that is not to say there haven’t been mistakes made by past/present Catholics, Popes, Saints, and other leaders, but I think every commandment of God’s has been under attack by the Church of Sinners that we are over the years (everyone is a sinner, Catholic or non-Catholic), which is why Jesus gave us the Sacrament of Confession. However most of the time the accusations on this subject are flat out lies trying to make Catholics look bad by these same people with a vendetta against the RCC, like accusations against the Pope during would WWII. Pope Pius XII was against Nazis before and during His Papacy, His efforts saved many Jewish lives when it was needed the most during Nazi persecution.
To be fair to Luther the Nazis weren’t quoting Him that I am aware of but the hatred started somewhere. Martin Luther, who happened to be from Germany of all places, was anti-Semitic and even wrote a book about it. I wander if Luther knew Jesus was a Jew? I am not really convinced He read the Bible or at least the first verse of the NT, Matthew 1:1. Luther was also a former Catholic monk, turned anti-Catholic who could be considered the father of Protestantism and was the founder of His Lutheran Church. Now I know most present day Lutherans and Protestants don’t share Luther’s feelings in this area, but the point I am making is their isn’t a book that I am aware of that is credited as being written by Jesus or His Apostles (beginning of RCC) that has a valid accusation of being anti-Semitic because they were all Jews themselves and the idea of such a book would be ridiculous. But yes as unbelievable as it is (why I started this thread), people invalidly are claiming the NT is anti-Semitic. As I have stated it isn’t a logical argument and I would consider it preposterous to claim Jesus and the Apostles were anti-Semitic. Catholicism is Jewish in its origin and source of teachings, how can we be against ourselves? Luther was Catholic than left the Church and then later became anti-Semitic or his anti-Semitism contributed to why he left the church. Also keep in mind Luther wanted to throw out some of the NT (and did throw out some of the OT) because it conflicted with his teachings, ironic sense he preached sola scriptura.
GKC on SS youtube.com/watch?v=kFqeb4decbk
More on SS youtube.com/watch?v=aEsMjB00oek&feature=related
 
When I heard the story of the tortoise and the heir I didn’t develop a hatred of rabbits, like Elmer Fudd apparently did, rather I listened to THE MORAL OF THE STORY. I didn’t say those darn arrogant rabbits, or hate Elmer when he was the antagonist to Bugs Bunny. People who have hatred toward other people have it for irrational reasons and try to blame it on the next thing that comes to mind that they hate. Even if someone kills your child you shouldn’t hate them for it, rather Jesus taught love your enemy and do not have vengeance in your heart. The NT says quite the opposite of instructing to kill and persecute. If you think the NT is anti-Semitic you need to read the NT again without your personal bias against Catholicism to see THE MORAL OF THE STORY. And THE OBVIOUS, if we were anti-Semitic we would have to stop reading the Bible and being Catholic because JESUS IS A JEW. The moral is we should love each other as siblings and not hate or hold grudges. Also keep in mind, most of the NT was written by Jews (maybe all of it was, but I am not totally sure on all authors), but they were all Catholic in faith though not actually called Catholic at the time, because the term Catholic wasn’t used til early 2nd century to distinguish the True Church from Christian heretics.
The Gospels of Jesus Christ and the other Letters in the NT are not something that produces hatred. Rather it is the message of world peace that is inclusive to all people, and would result in world peace if everyone took the time to listen. I pray that everyone will be united as TRUE followers of Jesus someday, but until that day comes as a rule of thumb when someone hates Jews they are also anti-Catholic as well (e.g. Nazis, KKK, Luther).
Please let me know if there is something glaring I am missing from history to explain why someone would validly claim the Catholic Church, which was founded by Jesus and His Apostles who are Jewish, has been anti-Semitic. Or why someone would ever claim the NT, which was written by Jewish men, is anti-Semitic or how Jesus, who is a Jew Himself and the underlying subject of the NT, taught others to be anti-Semitic. Or weigh in with comments, thanks.
 
Unfortunately, some Catholics have been anti-Semitic, and no doubt some still are. In such cases though the person is not Catholic enough, not too Catholic.
 
OP, paragraphs are your friends.

Haven’t read this even though the title was quite interesting.
 
afiala2 said:
No.

Israel is God’s chosen people. Jesus came to save the Jews first, then the world (Matt. 10:5-6, 15:24). Catholicism sees itself as the fulfillment of Jewish Prophesy. The NT is full of references to the OT and other Jewish writings. If we lose our Jewish ties, we no longer have an argument to have been founded by The Messiah, the Son of God.
One must remember that if you are attacking the NT as anti-Semitic, you are attacking the RCC. The RCC wrote, gathered, and approved the books that were included in the NT, through what we believe to be the Divine Inspiration of the Holy Spirit.
The accusation of Catholicism being anti-Semitic is a huge anti-Catholic whopper, if I ever heard one. Jesus who we believe is God and man was a Jew. His Mother, the Blessed Virgin Mary who we hold in more honor and esteem than any other human, was a good faithful Jew. His foster-Father Joseph and His original Apostles were all Jews in nationality and faith. That is until they became Catholic of course, but in nationality they are Jewish or a part of Israel. Catholicism could/should be viewed as the New Jewish faith or New Covenant started by the Son, The Messiah. We believe salvation comes from the Jews in the person of Jesus Christ, who was a descendent of David. We hold men like Abraham, Jacob, Moses, and Solomon in high esteem along with the prophets like Jeremiah. These men and their stories and teachings are in our OT which we also consider to be The Word of God along with the NT. The OT is almost ¾ of the length of the entire Catholic Bible which is made up of Jewish teachings and Jewish Prophets. OT has 46 books, while NT only has 27, which means majority of what we believe is very Jewish in content and origin. We believe we are the New Israel where we are all inclusive of all nations not just the Jews, but Gentiles alike. We are the exact opposite of being discriminatory. If Catholics were to be anti-Semitic, we would be discriminatory against ourselves as we are either actually Jews or believe we are 'adopted Jews’ as a part of God’s family if we are Gentiles.
My wife, through whom our kids are also, is of Jewish decent in race/nationality but not faith, while I am a gentile. But we share the Catholic faith. But if we didn’t believe Christ was the Messiah, my family would most decidedly be Jewish in faith that is if I would be accepted as a gentile and my family as not being fully Jewish in decent.
The perceived “anti-Semitic” -ness of the NT isn’t there; people can have warped perceptions about a lot of things. Just because someone says something unintelligent doesn’t mean they are right. In the NT, Jesus was actually calling out the leaders of the day and saying why aren’t you being better Jews or why aren’t you observing the laws Moses gave you. It was Jesus’ place to say this because He is the Son of God, the Only begotten Son of the God of Israel, sent by His Father to save the world. If someone does something bad, when you recount the story the antagonist of the story will always sound bad, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t true and accurate or that it automatically becomes the source of future hatred. Rather the hatred towards Jesus in the story should show the reader how pointless hatred is and that you should never want anyone to suffer the way Jesus did, if you have any compassion in your heart.
Rather people who are trying to be like the Nazis and not completely condemning the horrific actions of the Nazis are to blame for any continued hatred being spread. Remember Nazis killed Catholics too; St. Maximilian Kolbe was put to death by the Nazis. Many Catholics lost their lives because they were “Jewish sympathizers”. Where does it say you should kill people and persecute people in the NT? Nazis weren’t quoting the NT as their battle cry, and even if someone someday does, it doesn’t mean it is in the NT. It just means those hate filled people hate Catholicism. The only thing the NT is against is sin and death.
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Catholicism is not Anti-Semitic. However, there are bad Catholics who are anti-Semitic, racist, communists, extreme right wing nut…But they are all bad Catholics and not practicing Catholicism.

Antin-Semitic Catholics and Christians often like to make the crazy argument all Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites were Jews. They insist that Christianity descends from the Israelites and not the Jews. They insist Jesus was an Israelite and not a Jew. I was in debate with one such Catholic about a year ago (one that does not attend Mass) and I simply explained that in the Gospel of John Jesus said to the Samaritan woman “Salvation was of the Jews.” The response was “oh, some scribe stuck that in there by mistake.” How can you argue with a lunatic who even after the facts are presented to them, they continue with their lunacy?

Additionally, the Anti-Semites I have met usually do not want to physically harm Jews. In fact they have deluded themselves into believing the Holocaust never happened.

But there are nuts everywhere and there are also Jews that are anti-catholic, racist, and even anti-Judaism. Just look at Pope Pius XII. The Jews used to consider him a hero to the Jews and now just like the Catholic anti-semites they are re-writing history and portraying him as an anti-semite. But of course, like the Anti-Semetic Catholics, these these types of Jews are not really practicing Jews either.
 
Salvation is from the Jews is a great book by Roy Schoeman.

He converted to the CC. Part of his conversion story is told at the back of the book.
 
trdchubi said:
If there are any, you can count me out. I’m not one of them
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All I really needed to say is your quote on your signature:

How then can a gentile who knows Christ as Savior not love the Jewish people, a people loved by God, chosen by him for his own glory?

God Bless!
 
We certainly did not make any friends during the middle ages with our “Passion Plays” I have to say that when JPII placed an apology in the wailing wall that it was a powerful moment
 
I have never been anti-Semitic, anti-Jew. I am old enough to remember Jews with numbers tattooed on their arms.

I lived in Brooklyn, NY in a mixed neighborhood. We had many groups, I have never been anti-any group. It never made sense to me.That does not mean I grew up in an non-prejudicial household. It just means it never made sense to me.

I used to go to Jewish households on their Sabbath and turn on the lights and do other chores they could not do on that day. They would have a purse on the table and I could choose a nickel or a pastry.

If I took the nickel I would have to give it to my mother, if I chose the pastry I could eat it.

I still miss Brooklyn. Good food. 😃
 
The root cause of anti-Semitism inside the Church walls is the the idea of Replacement theology or supersessionism. The roots of Replacement Theology and its fruit of anti-Semitism go back to the very beginning of Christianity. This is ironic when you consider the fact that the Church began as a Jewish institution. It was founded in Judea by Jews who were followers of a Jewish Messiah, and all its founding documents were written by Jews. (1) The oldest Christian symbol that has ever been found clearly emphasizes the Jewish origins of Christianity. The symbol is carved into artifacts found in Jerusalem that date back to the First Century.(2) It shows the fish, the symbol of the Church, emerging from Jewish roots, represented by the Menorah and the Star of David. The fish became a symbol for Christians because the word for fish in Greek is icthus, and Christians used the letters of this word, ICTHUS, as an acronym for Iesous, Christos, Theos, Huios, and Soter, meaning Jesus Christ, God’s Son and Savior. But the distinctive Jewish flavor of early Christianity was not to last long. As the Church began to spread beyond Judea, its message was embraced by more and more Gentiles who had no interest in maintaining contact with the Church’s Jewish roots. Even worse, the new Gentile leaders began to turn against the Jews by characterizing them as “Christ killers.” Consider the following examples:

Ignatius of Antioch (ca 50-117 AD) - Taught that those who partake of the Passover are partakers with those who killed Jesus.

Justin Martyr (100-165 AD) - Claimed God’s covenant with Israel was no longer valid and that the Gentiles had replaced the Jews.

Irenaeus (ca 130-202 AD) - Declared the Jews were disinherited from the grace of God.

Tertullian (ca 155-230 AD) - Blamed the Jews for the death of Jesus and argued they had been rejected by God.

Origen (185-254 AD) - He was responsible for much anti-Semitism, all of which was based on his assertion that the Jews were responsible for killing Jesus.

The Council of Elvira (305 AD in Spain) - Prohibited Christians from sharing a meal with a Jew, marrying a Jew, blessing a Jew or observing the Sabbath.

The Council of Nicea (325 AD in Turkey) - Changed the celebration of the Resurrection from the Jewish Feast of First Fruits to Easter in an attempt to disassociate it from Jewish feasts. The Council stated: “For it is unbecoming beyond measure that on this holiest of festivals we should follow the customs of the Jews. Henceforth let us have nothing in common with this odious people …”

Eusebius (ca 275-339 AD) - Taught that the promises of Scripture were meant for the Gentiles and the curses were meant for the Jews. Asserted that the Church was the “true Israel.”

John Chrysostom (349-407 AD) - Preached a series of sermons against the Jews in which he stated, “The synagogue is not only a brothel and a theater, it is also a den of robbers and lodging place for wild beasts … Jews are inveterate murderers possessed by the Devil. Their debauchery and drunkenness gives the manners of a pig.” He denied that Jews could ever receive forgiveness. He claimed it was a Christian duty to hate Jews. He claimed that Jews worshiped Satan. And this man was canonized a saint!

Jerome (ca 347-420 AD) - Described the Jews as “… serpents wearing the image of Judas. Their psalms and prayers are the braying of donkeys … They are incapable of understanding Scripture …”

St. Augustine (354-430 AD) - Asserted that the Jews deserved death but were destined to wander the earth to witness the victory of the Church over the synagogue.”Source
 
And everybody is stupid occasionally. Anti-Jews are everywhere, in and out of church.
 
Would it be anti-semitic to reverse the question and ask: Are Jews Anti-Christian in spirit, or proclamation? I’ve personally met a handful, and only a handful of many, who have not made statements like “christ is the cause of antisemitism, or christianity is a bastard religion, etc.”
My personal belief is that these feelings among jews are highly prevalent. The tension between the two goes back to the origins of our religion–what has happened since then can reasonably be seen as an exacerbation only of these tensions.

The ultimate test is how we are treated personally by the above kind of people. Unfortunately many seem to be of the bent that derogatory statements about christ don’t count as offensive because Christianity is a ‘made up religion’, so therefore its not an offense to anyone, living, but only to a christ who is dead according to their belief.

anti-christian sentiment has become an integral part of the judaism of some.

i’m only expressing my opinion.

incidentally, citing St. Augustine or others of his category in an anti semitic context is not a good sign for the modern writer
 
trdchubi said:
The root cause of anti-Semitism inside the Church walls is the the idea of Replacement theology or supersessionism. The roots of Replacement Theology and its fruit of anti-Semitism go back to the very beginning of Christianity. This is ironic when you consider the fact that the Church began as a Jewish institution. It was founded in Judea by Jews who were followers of a Jewish Messiah, and all its founding documents were written by Jews. (1) The oldest Christian symbol that has ever been found clearly emphasizes the Jewish origins of Christianity. The symbol is carved into artifacts found in Jerusalem that date back to the First Century.(2) It shows the fish, the symbol of the Church, emerging from Jewish roots, represented by the Menorah and the Star of David. The fish became a symbol for Christians because the word for fish in Greek is icthus, and Christians used the letters of this word, ICTHUS, as an acronym for Iesous, Christos, Theos, Huios, and Soter, meaning Jesus Christ, God’s Son and Savior. But the distinctive Jewish flavor of early Christianity was not to last long. As the Church began to spread beyond Judea, its message was embraced by more and more Gentiles who had no interest in maintaining contact with the Church’s Jewish roots. Even worse, the new Gentile leaders began to turn against the Jews by characterizing them as “Christ killers.” Consider the following examples:

St. Augustine (354-430 AD) - Asserted that the Jews deserved death but were destined to wander the earth to witness the victory of the Church over the synagogue.”Source
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That is not the root cause of anti-semitism. Before I tell you the real root, let me comment on that article you cite.

The quotes do not list the letters these statements are from. They only list books written by other people. They should have mentioned the document for each quote so I can confirm its veracity.

However, you could say it is right about the Council of Elvira and in a sense that is still true today. Practicing Jews also prefer their children marry Jews. No big deal, both sides have their reasons.

The info about council of Nicea is sort of correct but it was Constantine that was angry at the Jews for the reasons stated below. And BTW, the date of Easter was not really changed; it was set to a uniform date* (Christians were celebrating Easter on different dates)* and Constantine gave his opinion that the chosen date should not coincide the Passover(some Christians were celebrating Easter on what we now call Good Friday).

So as an aside, all Christians today celebrate Easter on the Sunday after Good Friday because of the Council of Nicea. (Oh, Oh! the Protestants celebrate Easter on the Sunday after Good Friday because the Catholic Church said so.:D)

Now for the true root cause:
  1. Shortly after the crucifixion of Jesus the Temple was destroyed as retaliation from the Romans for not only revolting against the Empire but also defeating the Romans in a battle during the revolt.
  2. After the Crucifixion of Jesus, the Roman Empire began to collapse, facing similar problems that we are dealing with today.
  3. When Constantine took control of the entire Empire he made the observation that only his fourth of the Empire did not persecute the Christians. Neither him nor his father.
  4. He came to the conclusion that he was given the entire Empire by the Christian God because he and his father did not persecute the Christians.
  5. He eventually came to the conclusion that the Jews and the Romans were punished for the Crucifixion.
  6. He believed the Jews had gone crazy after having killed their own God and that is why they revolted.
  7. He believed the Roman Empire was collapsing because of its part in the Crucifixion.
  8. Constantine then blamed the Jews for the problems of the Roman Empire. He believed they should have recognized their own God and He was angry the Jews had gotten them involved.
As pagans began to come into the Christian Church many harbored this belief. And so that is when people began to blame Jews when things went bad. That is the root of people saying things like “Hey, the economy is bad. It must be the Jews’ fault.”

Of course we can not say that in fact the Jews and the Romans were punished by God for the crucifixion. But it is true that both did suffer after the Crucifixion. I am also not saying Constantine was correct in what he believed, but the evidence shows that is what he believed.

But the bottom line these anti-semites are just jerks looking to find scapegoats. In the past these types of bad Catholics have become groups like atheistic socialists and then persecute the Catholics in places like Spain, Mexico, Cuba, Poland, Russia, etc.
 
Hail_Linus said:
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But the bottom line these anti-Semites are just jerks looking to find scapegoats. In the past these types of bad Catholics have become groups like atheistic socialists and then persecute the Catholics in places like Spain, Mexico, Cuba, Poland, Russia, etc.
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I agree with your opinion, Hail_Linus, except in that I also believe people are shaped by their experiences with different groups. Neither Judaic principles/commandments nor anti-Semitic beliefs are intrinsic to the soul: everyone was created with the potential for Godlike behavior: And these are definitely not the basic definition of race in modern, genetic, terms, either. The question is: where did the errant knaves go wrong and how may we help them without further widening the schism between and amongst the different groups involved? Such questions and such plans for peace have become equated in certain radical spheres with dissension and betrayal of one’s own religion, and worse, with collaborating with the enemies’ true purpose, i.e., destruction of ‘our’ way of life because it is offensive to them.
 
Michael19682 said:
I agree with your opinion, Hail_Linus, except in that I also believe people are shaped by their experiences with different groups. Neither Judaic principles/commandments nor anti-Semitic beliefs are intrinsic to the soul: everyone was created with the potential for Godlike behavior: And these are definitely not the basic definition of race in modern, genetic, terms, either. The question is: where did the errant knaves go wrong and how may we help them without further widening the schism between and amongst the different groups involved? Such questions and such plans for peace have become equated in certain radical spheres with dissension and betrayal of one’s own religion, and worse, with collaborating with the enemies’ true purpose, i.e., destruction of ‘our’ way of life because it is offensive to them.
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Where does it come from? Well I guess we can trace it back to Adam and Eve. They chose to obey the serpent. There are many serpents in the world and too many willing to abandon God to obey the serpent. The people that follow the serpents always end up paying for it themselves.

I love the words to this old Black Sabbath song called N.I.B. which is about a person being seduced by this entity offering them everything for their love. The last verse is climactic:

“Now I have you with me, under my power
Our love grows stronger now with every hour
Look into my eyes, you will see who I am
My name is Lucifer, please take my hand”

But the scary thing is that anyone can get taken in. If you can get the book the Wave (there was also a TV movie back in the 80’s) which is based on a true story from a high school in California. Unbeknownst to the staff or students, one teacher created a sort of club, the kids that joined the club got really intense about it. He told them this was national movement and one day he invited them to the auditorium to see a nationally televised speech by the organizations leader. When they got there he turned on the TV and Adolf Hitler appeared. Many of the kids started to cry. The teacher told them that they were going to have to live with the fact that they were suckers just like the German people during WWII. Just think, if the teacher was an evil guy, he could have really led a seriously evil organization.

The bad news is we are in a battle with evil. The Good news is that we know who wins in the end.🙂
 
Our Israelitish Brethren
By James Parton
OCTOBER 1870 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE (excerpt concerning Jews of Rome under Papal State rule)

"Without troubling the reader with a catalogue of similar facts, I can convey some idea of the scorn in which Jews were once held in a more convenient manner by showing how they are now treated in the city of Rome,—Rome being a fragment of the Past preserved, like an Elgin marble, for the inspection of the moderns. In 1860, when there was talk of a congress of European powers for the settlement of international questions, the Jews of Rome prepared a petition for presentation to it, in which some of their grievances were stated. From this paper we learn that no Jew in Rome can be an artist, nor be a pupil in a school of art, nor frequent a public gallery for practice in art. No college, medical school, law school, or scientific institution can receive a Jewish student. No Jew can exercise a mechanical trade, except cobbling shoes. Cruellest and absurdest of all, no Jew, fond as he is of music, and gifted as his race is in music, can sing in public or play on an instrument. “Woe to the Hebrew,” says the petition, “who dares sing or play in public; for the police and the Holy Office immediately pounce upon him and punish the offence with severe penalties.” This is the more abominable, because nature has signalized this people, not so touch by superiority of understanding, as by talent. The gifted among them are formed to sing, to play, to compose, to carve, to paint, to personate, to excel in all those arts by which human nature is enchanted and exalted by being exhibited to itself.
Edmond About’s report of the condition of the Jews in Rome is fresh in the recollection of many. He glances backward at the time, not remote, when every evening at the hour Christians go to the theatre the gates of the Jews’ quarter were locked for the night; when on days of holy festival Jews were made to run races for the amusement of Christians; when every year a city official gave them a representative kick, an honor for which they had to pay four thousand francs; when they were compelled to present publicly to every new Pope a Bible; when they were obliged to pay the salary of a Christian priest employed to preach a sermon to them every Saturday, and they could only avoid attending this service by paying a fine; when their Ghetto bred such deadly pestilence, that some of them almost lost the semblance of humanity, and “they might have been mistaken for beasts, if one had not known them to be intelligent beings, apt for business, resigned to their lot, simple in their requirements, kind-hearted, devoted to their families, and irreproachable in their conduct.” Such was their condition in Rome. M. About tells us what it is. The present Pope, he reminds us, has indeed taken away the gates of the Ghetto, so that Jews can go about the city after dark; he has dispensed them from the annual kick and its annual price, and he has closed the church to which they were required to go on Saturdays to be converted.

But the author adds; “I secretly questioned two well-known inhabitants of the Ghetto. When they understood why I concerned myself with their affairs, the poor men exclaimed; 'For Heaven’s sake, do not publish that we are wretched; that the Pope actively regrets his concessions of 1847; that doors invisible, but impassable, close the Ghetto, and that our condition is worse than ever. All that you might say in our behalf would be visited upon us, and instead of benefiting you would injure us.”’ The inquirer visited the Ghetto, in the low ground near the Tiber, and found it “the most horrible and neglected quarter of the town,” in which not the humblest of the thousand prelates about Rome would set his foot, any more than as Indian Brahmin would cross the threshold of a Pariah’s hovel. "I learned,” says this author, “that the most humble employment in the most humble office would as soon be given to a beast as to a Jew; that for a child of Israel to ask in Rome to be employed as a commissary, would he more absurd than for the giraffe of the Jardin des Plantes to ask for an under-prefectship in Paris.” No Jew can own a foot of land in the papal dominions, nor cultivate one, unless in the name of a Christian; and if a Jew, using this artifice, ventures to cultivate a garden or a farm, his harvest is safe from pillage only so long as the legal device remains a secret. Let but the Christians around learn that the harvest is the property of an Israelite, and “a rage for plunder” seizes them, which leaves the hapless proprietor with desolated fields.

This is the testimony of a witness who is prejudiced, as all modernized minds are prejudiced, against government by priests. Let me summon another witness, a Christian who writes to L’Ami d’Israel an account of his visit to the Roman Ghetto; “It is situated on the borders of the Tiber, in a place subject to inundations; the population is confined in narrow, dirty streets; and although the Jews are much too numerous for this small quarter, they are not allowed to take up their abode beyond the limits of the Ghetto. The closing of the gates is discontinued, but the prohibition as to residence remains the same. I was struck with the activity and industry of the Jews; for while one sees a great many idlers and crowds of beggars in Rome itself, in the Ghetto every one is at work, and there is not a beggar visible.” The struggle for life, this writer remarks, is so severe, that out of a population of more than four thousand, two thousand five hundred are extremely poor, and in part dependent upon the charity of their neighbors"
 
Chosen People, what if I went to a Jewish site in which it was being discussed whether Judaism was anti-Christian and, without further commentary, posted accounts of evils perpetrated by Jewish leaders upon Christians, whether the persecution of the early Church with all the martyrdoms or claims of the suffering of Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation or whatever else? I doubt you would find it helpful to the discussion. It would just make Christians look authentically anti-Jewish and ferment any latent anti-Christian sentiment among Jews reading it.

No one is excusing individual abuses or bad policies towards Jews that certain Christian leaders adopted in the past. There can even be a time and a place for looking at these things together and vowing that they must never happen again. But simply throwing past abuses into the faces of the other group while they are taking pains to condemn such past mistakes and adopt a positive attitude towards you is only going to be counterproductive. This dialogue and reconciliation really has to be two-sided. If one side is always bending over backwards to please the other while that other is always casting renewed criticism at its former critics, how long can good relations likely to continue? Not that positive statements aren’t sometimes made by Jewish leaders, but we need more of that and less of this kind of thing. We don’t need to sweep the past under the rug, but we need to stop using it as ammunition to discredit one another.
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Chosen People, what if I went to a Jewish site in which it was being discussed whether Judaism was anti-Christian and, without further commentary, posted accounts of evils perpetrated by Jewish leaders upon Christians, whether the persecution of the early Church with all the martyrdoms or claims of the suffering of Palestinian Christians under Israeli occupation or whatever else? I doubt you would find it helpful to the discussion. It would just make Christians look authentically anti-Jewish and ferment any latent anti-Christian sentiment among Jews reading it.

No one is excusing individual abuses or bad policies towards Jews that certain Christian leaders adopted in the past. There can even be a time and a place for looking at these things together and vowing that they must never happen again. But simply throwing past abuses into the faces of the other group while they are taking pains to condemn such past mistakes and adopt a positive attitude towards you is only going to be counterproductive. This dialogue and reconciliation really has to be two-sided. If one side is always bending over backwards to please the other while that other is always casting renewed criticism at its former critics, how long can good relations likely to continue? Not that positive statements aren’t sometimes made by Jewish leaders, but we need more of that and less of this kind of thing. We don’t need to sweep the past under the rug, but we need to stop using it as ammunition to discredit one another.
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I absolutely agree. Chosen’s approach comes off as intimidation, frankly, in contexts where people acknowledge their community’s past and current offenses.

It’s not fair that I push slavery, colonisation, the exploitation of and discrimination towards against Black/Asian immigrants in the post-WWII years, colour discrimination TODAY, etc. – on my white friends, family members, if they know it happened and recognise discrimination still exists.
 
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