Are Catholics Chicken or Something?

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To be fair, a Protestant could say its presumptuous to say Joan of Arc is saved.
 
Yet

Point being
  1. Joan of Arc said re: state of grace If I’m not, I pray the Lord puts me there, and if I am, I hope He keeps me there.. No presumption there. 🙂
  2. A protestant, OTOH who might claim some degree of biblical literacy, but doesn’t know about being in a state of grace is already in huge trouble, not to mention all the other issues involved.
 
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Yes, I’m not knocking her answer. I’m saying the Protestant could say that we presume she is saved.
 
Yet

one declared a saint means they are in heaven, ergo saved
 
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steve-b said:
My 2 cents, Joan of Arc as a Catholic and Saint, had the better answer. It’s not presumptuous. And she knew the necessity of being in the state of grace.
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I agree that Joan had the better answer. Her answer was thought to be inspired by the Holy Spirit, because the question was asked of her by her inquisitors in order to trip her up. If she said yes, she was in a state of grace, she would have been condemned for presumption. If she said no, she was not in a state of grace, she would have been condemned as a mortal sinner on her own admission. Instead, even though she was uneducated and illiterate, she came up with the perfect answer.

However, the point is to get a pestering evangelical stranger to leave you alone, not engage them in a discussion of theology. 🙂
 
Tis_Bearself said:
However, the point is to get a pestering evangelical stranger to leave you alone, not engage them in a discussion of theology. 🙂
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😀 yeah, I get it.

If someone has no answers, then that’s the perfect escape answer.
 
You realize I’m not doubting? I’m Catholic. 🙂

But Jesus doesnt appear to us and declare someone a Saint.
 
rcwitness said:
You realize I’m not doubting? I’m Catholic. 🙂
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I know
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rcwitness:
But Jesus doesnt appear to us and declare someone a Saint.
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True.

And Re: Protestantism of whatever stripe, regarding our saints, there are no presumptions made in the canonization process on The Church’s part.
 
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Actually, I wonder what level of certitude the Church declares someone in Heaven?

We certainly aren’t bound to believe the Saints are in Heaven, right?

Mary, yes. But the others?

Is it an infallible Teaching that a declared Saint is a Saint?
 
rcwitness said:
We certainly aren’t bound to believe the Saints are in Heaven, right?
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Yes, you are bound to believe that a canonized saint is in Heaven.

Canonization is a statement by the Church that someone certainly is in Heaven. That’s the entire point of doing the whole canonization process.

If you disagree, you are contradicting the Pope/ Magisterium.
 
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I dont disagree. I’m just curious as to the type of declaration it is, and what weight of authority we are bound by it.
 
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I say it’s just as presumptuous for a Protestant to think themselves as the final authority on what Scripture actually says.
 
Thanks. I often wondered what the Church was actually “saying” about the Saint.

Whether it is an acceptable, pious devotion to believe they are in heavan, or an actual authoritative decree.

Sounds like the latter. Which means both, perhaps. 🙂
 
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We have veered a bit from the original topic, so I won’t say much except it sounds like this canonist might be in the minority of theologians considering the issue.

In any event, it seems like the guy is saying that it still should be believed, it just doesn’t meet the technical criteria for classifying it under infallible.
 
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