Are Christians afraid to speaking against homosexual agenda?

[StrawberryJam]

If there were any “rules” legislating against this, they would only be rules concerning religious differences between people, not racial differences between them. And I’m sure you can find the answer for yourself, because I’m not sure.

As you are aware, not everyone who is a believer in the Abrahamic God views their relationship with him in the same way. Jews do not see themselves in the same way as christians do in this regard, I’m sure you know that.

Your Paul tells us there is no Jew nor Greek, but that is your belief.

As far as being able to answer my question myself, I certainly can.
An unexamined life is a life not worth living.

Examine the evidence of your faith, for your own good.

Since marriage is the “strong” point of your arguments- let us examine the history of christian marriages in your church, shall we?

 

[shondrea]

…NONE of the Christians of the world? You’re being pretty ambitious with that assertion, ain’tcha?

 

[Syntax]

As you are aware, not everyone who is a believer in the Abrahamic God views their relationship with him in the same way. Jews do not see themselves in the same way as christians do in this regard, I’m sure you know that.Your Paul tells us there is no Jew nor Greek, but that is your belief.

So? What does that have to do with my response to your question?

As far as being able to answer my question myself, I certainly can.
An unexamined life is a life not worth living.

Sorry. That’s not actually an answer to your question of whether there existed any legislation against Jews and Christian from marrying one another in christianity. Maybe you should look it up?

Examine the evidence of your faith, for your own good.

Who says I haven’t? I have been a Catholic for only 4 years, an agnostic for 6, and an atheistic for another 4. I am also working on my PhD in philosophy. So your implicit demand that I should be “examining my faith” is quite superfluous, I’m afraid.

And FYI, I have Socrates’ “The unexamined life is not worth living” hanging above my door in my apartment. So don’t presume I never examine things, because I guarantee I examine things more than you do–it is my profession

 

[StrawberryJam]

So? What does have to do with my response to your question?

Sorry. That’s not actually an answer to your question of whether there existed any legislation against Jews and Christian from marrying one another in christianity. Maybe you should look it up?

Who says I haven’t? I have been a Catholic for only 4 years, an agnostic for 6, and an atheistic for another 4. I am also working on my PhD in philosophy. So your implicit demand that I think for myself is quite superfluous.

And FYI, I have Socrates’ “The unexamined life is not worth living” hanging above door in my apartment. So be careful presuming I don’t examine things.

FYI- Jews are Jews if born from a Jewish mother or go through conversion. They are a “tribal” “nation” so, you can not say race is not a factor.

I don’t know if the word “legislation” applies in the same way it does in the real world of law as opposed to the catholic church’s changes in their holy sacrament of marriage.
You are aware that marrying a protestant was not always allowable also?

 

[MrZetterlund]

I read about that and there is a Catholic School that kick out kids who’s parents are lesbian or gay. I support that diocese because the life style of homosexual is contrary to the natural law and God’s law. Human beings are born heterosexual. Homosexuals are confused people. They need to seek God rather than themselves.

I** FULLY **disagree with that. The children, especially if they are in the backsliding lifestyle of being exposed to homosexualiy, should have all the exposier to Jesus they can! Jesus is the cure for homosexuality. Another thing, I do agree that we should speak out, but when dealing with homosexuality I notice Christians tend to get a bit vicious. That makes us come across as biggots or discrimitive. PLEASE BE CHARITABLE. Visit narth.com/ to learn about the subject of this matter. Some people feel trapped as “this kind” of person. We should let them know they DO NOT have to be like that, and liberate them! And PLEASE be MERCIFUL. When Jesus was confronted with the addulteress, did He chuck that stone at her head? No. He said “Who here is innocent? Let him cast the first stone.” And Jesus, He WAS innocent, but instead of rightfully putting her in her place, He said “go, and sin no more.” An act of charity is much more pursuading than biggotry. When you see that one gay guy getting persecuted, step in and say “Stop!” Show him love, and teach him what you’ve learned at narth.com and let him know he doesn’t have to live with the intollorance he’s shown because of his sexual orrientation.

Be a voice of hope, not persecution.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

The issue boils down to christians deciding if some people should not have the same legal rights as others.

i dont see how any rights can stem from a persons choice of sexual partner.

We have seen this before, and now we no longer must tolerate the christian agenda that people of different pigmentation of skin can not marry, or have the same legal rights.

thats never been the Catholic position to my knowledge.

We have seen this before, where the first country that allowed women to vote was Finland, if I am not mistaken. Some young people here may not know that, or who was behind all these atrocities.

you are born a woman, or black, or indian, etc. these are immutable qualities.

there is no proof that people are born gay. its not an iummutable quality, its just a choice and therefore it isnt comparable to civil rights issues.

 

[Syntax]

FYI- Jews are Jews if born from a Jewish mother or go through conversion. They are a “tribal” “nation” so, you can not say race is not a factor.

Then that would be an issue you need to take up with the Jews, not the Christians.

I don’t know if the word “legislation” applies in the same way it does in the real world of law as opposed to the catholic church’s changes in their holy sacrament of marriage. You are aware that marrying a protestant was not always allowable also?

The official sacrament of marriage has never changed in the church. But perhaps the rules concerning when a dispensation can be given to allow people from a different faith to marry into the Church has changed.

But what is so problematic about that? Would *you *want to marry someone from a religion different than your own? In case you haven’t noticed, marriages between people with different religious convictions too often don’t work out anyway, and they create a lot of conflict within the marriage.

Anyway, what does this have to do with the topic of the OP??

 

[shondrea]

i its just a choice

This is all I wanna put my two cents into. I don’t support the Born gay theory, but I DO think there’s a whole lot more going on emotionally, psychologically and mentally than just “choosing”. There’s a lot more baggage, hardship and personal trial in one’s sexuality than there is choosing what color shirt to wear in the morning.

 

[Syntax]

I** FULLY **disagree with that. The children, especially if they are in the backsliding lifestyle of being exposed to homosexualiy, should have all the exposier to Jesus they can! Jesus is the cure for homosexuality. Another thing, I do agree that we should speak out, but when dealing with homosexuality I notice Christians tend to get a bit vicious. That makes us come across as biggots or discrimitive. PLEASE BE CHARITABLE. Visit narth.com/ to learn about the subject of this matter. Some people feel trapped as “this kind” of person. We should let them know they DO NOT have to be like that, and liberate them! And PLEASE be MERCIFUL. When Jesus was confronted with the addulteress, did He chuck that stone at her head? No. He said “Who here is innocent? Let him cast the first stone.” And Jesus, He WAS innocent, but instead of rightfully putting her in her place, He said “go, and sin no more.” An act of charity is much more pursuading than biggotry. When you see that one gay guy getting persecuted, step in and say “Stop!” Show him love, and teach him what you’ve learned at narth.com and let him know he doesn’t have to live with the intollorance he’s shown because of his sexual orrientation.

Be a voice of hope, not persecution.

This isn’t persecution at all. The child isn’t being “punished.” The concern is actually FOR the child. After all, why are the homosexual parents sending their child to a Catholic school whose religious teachings are going to be directly contrary to their own lifestyle and choice of a partner? The child is going to be utterly confused by having to grow up witnessing his or her own parent’s lifestyle that is evidentially contrary to what he or she is going to be taught in a Catholic school. You’re going to make that kid a mess by doing this.

Who should be blamed in this scenario are the parents. In fact, one can only speculate that their motivation is to use their own child as leverage to make the Catholic Church look bad once the child is removed. And they succeeded in doing precisely that. This child’s parents must be sick in the head.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Then that would be an issue you need to take up with the Jews, not the Christians.

The official sacrament of marriage has never changed in the church. But perhaps the rules concerning when a dispensation can be given to allow people from a different faith to marry into the Church has changed.

But what is so problematic about that? Would *you *want to marry someone from a religion different than your own? In case you haven’t noticed, marriages between people with different religious convictions too often don’t work out anyway, and they create a lot of conflict within the marriage.

Anyway, what does this have to do with the topic of the OP??

Dispensations are euphimisms, to say- we changed our tune.

Sacraments are serious business. Changing what is allowable in the marriage Sacrament and what is not allowable does pose problems.

I have underlined your personal commentary regarding marriages of different faith communities.

You do realize there are many posters here that are in these types of marriages (thankfully due to this change in stance) that would object to your commentary, and rightfully demand evidence that the divorce rate is any higher for those situations than it is for say, non believers?

 

[warpspeedpetey]

But what is so problematic about that? Would *you *want to marry someone from a religion different than your own? In case you haven’t noticed, marriages between people with different religious convictions too often don’t work out anyway, and they create a lot of conflict within the marriage.

oh yeah brother.

me - High Plains, West Kansas Catholic.

my wife - Deep Woods, Ozark Mountain Baptist.

i know all about those kind of problems.

 

[Syntax]

Dispensations are euphimisms, to say- we changed our tune.

That’s your own *uninformed *opinion, pal.

Sacraments are serious business. Changing what is allowable in the marriage Sacrament and what is not allowable does pose problems.

Can you present actual documents, please, concerning this alleged change in Church teachings about the Sacrament of Marriage? So far you are only speculating hypothesis based on no evidence and no understanding of the Catholic Sacrament of Marriage.

I have underlined your personal commentary regarding marriages of different faith communities.

You do realize there are many posters here that are in these types of marriages (thankfully due to this change in stance) that would object to your commentary, and rightfully demand evidence that the divorce rate is any higher for those situations than it is for say, non believers?

huh? Where are you going with this? Warpspeedpetey just agreed with me.

And again, what does this have to do with the OP? Maybe you can start another thread elsewhere on this topic? Perhaps you should discuss this with Warpspeedpetey here. He might know more than I do about this.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

This is all I wanna put my two cents into. I don’t support the Born gay theory, but I DO think there’s a whole lot more going on emotionally, psychologically and mentally than just “choosing”. There’s a lot more baggage, hardship and personal trial in one’s sexuality than there is choosing what color shirt to wear in the morning.

i dont know, i always got the impression that it was matter of unrestrained hedonism. then again, i know a bunch of homosexuals, but not any who dont revel in it.

if you know someone who fights and struggles against SSA, i suppose i could see it in those terms, i know that some people like that exist. i just dont know any myself.

 

[Syntax]

oh yeah brother.

me - High Plains, West Kansas Catholic.

my wife - Deep Woods, Ozark Mountain Baptist.

i know all about those kind of problems.

Oh my!! Congratulations that neither of you killed the other yet!

Maybe you could direct SugarLoaf or StrawberryJam to the appropriate documents concerning this alleged change in the Church’s Sacrament of Marriage? I don’t know what PeanutButterRock is talking about. Perhaps you know warpspeed.

 

[StrawberryJam]

The sacrament of marriage- changes. Even in the eyes of the all knowing catholic church that allows marriages to happen it never did in the past. There is NO history of the catholic church allowing Jews or protestants to be married in the Catholic Chuch until very very recently in her history. Who is to say in all her wisdom, she won’t change once again? That my friends, is on topic, when we are looking at christians demanding that some folks out of the womb should have less legal rights than others. And less than these fine catholics will give to a person out of the womb than in it.

 

[Darryl1958]

This is all I wanna put my two cents into. I don’t support the Born gay theory, but I DO think there’s a whole lot more going on emotionally, psychologically and mentally than just “choosing”. There’s a lot more baggage, hardship and personal trial in one’s sexuality than there is choosing what color shirt to wear in the morning.

I am somewhat of an Augustinian on the issue. Our freedom becomes corrupted as the habit of sin cuts its channels through the fabrics of our lives.

Moreover, original sin in fact speaks to the idea that sin has become a part of our very human nature.

In this context, Chruch teaching does not incarnate into our life so much as choice, as lifeline.

 

[Syntax]

The sacrament of marriage- changes. Even in the eyes of the all knowing catholic church that allows marriages to happen it never did in the past. There is NO history of the catholic church allowing Jews or protestants to be married in the Catholic Chuch until very very recently in her history. Who is to say in all her wisdom, she won’t change once again?

Again, your complete unfamiliarity with Catholic Doctrine is causing you to stretch beyond what the Church would ever do. You simply don’t have the first clue how the Church’s Sacrament of marriage is intimately tied to other doctrines about the unitive and procreative aspects of marriage and family, the nature of man and woman, and God’s plan for the two sexes in the Divine Order. Read Pope JPII Theology of Body–it talks all about these core Catholic beliefs about man and woman. So I completely disagree. You just don’t know the Church.

That my friends, is on topic, when we are looking at christians demanding that some folks out of the womb should have less legal rights than others. And less than these fine catholics will give to a person out of the womb than in it.

Yeah, why don’t we give Joe Schmo the right to marry his sister, or his aunt, or his brother. Or let’s extend the right to marry multiple spouses. And let’s allow all the members of NAMBLA to marry all the young boys they want. Oh, and don’t forget to extend the right to marry animals too. After all, primates are sentient beings just like humans. They have language, culture, societies, and freely express love and emotions to those close to them. So why are we continuing to discriminate against chimpanzees? After all, there’s nothing unnatural about being a chimpanzee or wanting to marry one for that matter.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Congratulations that neither of you killed the other yet!

Maybe you could direct SugarLoaf or StrawberryJam to whatever appropriate documents about this change in Church Teachings on the Sacrament of Marriage was? I don’t know what PeanutButterRock is driving at here. Perhaps you know warpspeed.

not a clue what they are talking about.

though we havent killed eachother because we dont live in the same state. all of george straits ex’s live in Texas…all mine live in Arkansas.

 

[shondrea]

i dont know, i always got the impression that it was matter of unrestrained hedonism. then again, i know a bunch of homosexuals, but not any who dont revel in it.

if you know someone who fights and struggles against SSA, i suppose i could see it in those terms, i know that some people like that exist. i just dont know any myself.

Mostly, I’m just a very avid reader of psychology. I love studying how the human mind and emotions work. And in reccent years, this has crossed over into an interest in how psychology, homosexuality and religion can overlap. Of course, there are many who identify themselves as happily homosexual, but my point wasn’t exactly that they’re miserable, but that there’s a lot more going on in their wiring than just deciding to be gay. There’s dozens of theories about what makes a person feel attracted to the same sex. Everything from “being born gay”, to repressed childhood sexual trauma, to a lack of testosterone in early development, to a lack of strong, paternal figure, to strong feelings of isolation as a child and the desire to feel loved by anyone who’s offering, to just experimenting, to an overly oppressive upbringing, to being unable to distinguish between the love felt for a friend and the love felt for a spouse.

And if it was, per chance, a choice, that opens up a whole new can of worms for, what compels a person to make that choice?

I personally think there is no one, single reason why a person identifies as gay, but rather, it’s a mix of reasons, different for each person. Some things could have happened extremely early on in life, resulting in the story often told of, “I;ve always felt this way. I’ve never realted to the opposit4e sex like I was suppose to”

Now, I’m NOT a psychologist, just someone who’s interested, so I can’t give credentiols to any of these theories. Just puttin’ then out there

 

[warpspeedpetey]

The sacrament of marriage- changes. Even in the eyes of the all knowing catholic church that allows marriages to happen it never did in the past. There is NO history of the catholic church allowing Jews or protestants to be married in the Catholic Chuch until very very recently in her history. Who is to say in all her wisdom, she won’t change once again? That my friends, is on topic, when we are looking at christians demanding that some folks out of the womb should have less legal rights than others. And less than these fine catholics will give to a person out of the womb than in it.

what a strange dichotomy, a obvious dislike for the Church, and an obvious love for the Church.

i have to ask strawberry. how did this happen? where does it come from?