Are Christians Losing the Apologetics War with Islam?

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I think its wrong to characterize it as a war, first of all. A war between “christianity” on one side, and “islam” on the other. It is more complicated than that, and I know that sounds pretentious - but if you look at the facts, it is very, very complicated.

Very complicated because first of all, the Western Christian world is not at all like the Muslim world. Secularism is the dominant ideology here and Christianity, while influential on our culture and fabric of life, doesn’t call the shots. So you have a decline in the power base of Christianity as an institution (plus keeping in mind there are a lot of variations of Christianity).

But in the Islamic world, there too you don’t have a single bloc of “Islam.” No, first you have Sunni muslims, with various degrees of extremism. Next you have the Shia, again with differeing interpretations, and all of these groups, sunni, shia and the divisions, are often locked in a violent battle with one another.

The type of Islam you are probably most concerned about is Salafist Wahhabism, which is that promulgated by Al-Qaeda and ISIS, and is dominant in Saudi Arabia and extremist Sunni nations. This type of Islam has a direct message and is issuing a call to all to join it to fight a noble battle on a cosmic level - It is very, very compelling to certain individuals who are involved in that cultural context.

What does Christianity or Catholicism have to say to our young men today? Grow up, get a job, try not to sin and go to communion. Okay, what about waging a war on behalf of God? What is more motivating to vulnerable youths without purpose in their life?
 
I believe the Christians are doing very well but the problem is which Jesus are they learning about. In order to teach them properly they must be shown the Jesus of the Latin Rite, there are to many differences and views within the protestants ideology. The teachings of the Catholic Church are sound and well thought out. There are a lot of similarities between Islam and Christians, ( they believe in the virgin birth and that Jesus will return at the end of times with the angels) those beliefs are a good start. Remember when Pope Benedict, was ridiculed for quoting from a 14th century historian that stated Islam was spread by the sword.? He later apologized however it’s true Islam has been a violent and oppressive religion since it’s founding. The truth will always prevail.
 
Troy right but I would go further and say instead of just the Latin right I would say the Catholic Churches. There are 22 ritual churches that make up the Catholic Church. Byzantine, ruthenium, russian, maronite, syriac, Coptic, syro malabar, Latin, the list is huge, the theologies and patrimonies differ yet we are united by our universal faith.
 
@tonyfish58. Apologies, Tony, I misunderstood your post. And thank you to Servant19 for pointing out my error.
 
Nixbits said:
@tonyfish58. Apologies, Tony, I misunderstood your post. And thank you to Servant19 for pointing out my error.
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And how could you have known? They wouldn’t outright state that they were promoting the Baha’i faith, but that is exactly what Tony was doing. Be careful that we stay on topic which is “Are Christians Losing the Apologetics War with Islam”, not how great the Baha’i faith may or may not be. 😉
 
I think we are losing the apologetics battle with Islam only in some circles. I think most of the world can see what these folks (ISIS and their ilk) are made of. If actions speak louder than words the message should be deafening. If ever a just war presented itself, it is the war against this evil.
 
SteveVH said:
I think we are losing the apologetics battle with Islam only in some circles. I think most of the world can see what these folks (ISIS and their ilk) are made of. If actions speak louder than words the message should be deafening. If ever a just war presented itself, it is the war against this evil.
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We are all created by the same God, the same God hears all our prayers, we have a Christian duty to love everyone in Iraq as we love ourself, we are to love and pray for our enemies. Instead, America and Britain chose to bomb Iraq, thousands died, and two million people fled their country, leaving everything behind. How will these refugees get justice?

We might live in fear of this evil, because deep down we know we are part of the cause, how did we love them as we love our selves?
 
Eric_Hyom said:
We are all created by the same God, the same God hears all our prayers, we have a Christian duty to love everyone in Iraq as we love ourself, we are to love and pray for our enemies. Instead, America and Britain chose to bomb Iraq, thousands died, and two million people fled their country, leaving everything behind. How will these refugees get justice?

We might live in fear of this evil, because deep down we know we are part of the cause, how did we love them as we love our selves?
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Not to mention the massive power vacuum that allowed ISIS to take power. If we are going to completely topple a countries government we have a responsibility to set one back up but instead we just left and now we got ISIS.
 
LoganBice said:
Not to mention the massive power vacuum that allowed ISIS to take power. If we are going to completely topple a countries government we have a responsibility to set one back up but instead we just left and now we got ISIS.
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Sorry, I did overlook this minor point, and I am not sure how we were loving and praying for our enemies whilst doing it.
 
Eric_Hyom said:
Sorry, I did overlook this minor point, and I am not sure how we were loving and praying for our enemies whilst doing it.
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Yes. I do understand if we had to go in to stop injustice or protect the innocent but toppling a government that had nothing to do with 9/11 and the death of over 100,000 civilians alone dosnt meet just war theory.
 
JonNC said:
Randy,
So long as Islamists continue to behead people, I don’t see them winning the propaganda war. I am far more concerned about the propaganda war we are ***not ***winning against western, progressive secularists, the recent election notwithstanding.

Jon
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Absolutely! Especially in our universities…
 
I am reading now how Saudi Arabia is very worried about ISIS…and a possible intent to invade Saudi Arabia…especially now that the USA is more independent of it.

What I am also wondering if we are approaching a new opportunity to evangelize the Islamic world…as the extreme atrocities of ISIS…I cannot help wonder if those people in those regions have now doubt of Islam. They all know the passages that ISIS upholds…it is in the Quoran…but they wouldn’t commit such acts themselves.

How to evangelize the Islam world…that is how I respond here, especially seeing 3 hystical Syrian soldiers being literally trampled to death by a throng of men.
 
Islam’s central problem
Posted on 8 October 2014 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
wdtprs.com/blog/2014/10/islams-central-problem/

I saw this at Jihad Watch and thought…. “Yep.”

On the heals of the Feast of the Holy Rosary (Our Lady of Victory)…

Where is the border between Islam and Islamism? The media says that the two are different as night and day; Islam is a religion of peace, and the Islamists have stolen the name. [Does anyone believe that?] Others believe that Islamism represents the traditional, pure Islam, true to the Koran.

This latter view is advanced, remarkably enough, by a theologian Martin Rhonheimer from a university endorsed by the Pope. He is a professor at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome and wrote an essay on this particular distinction in the Neue Zürcher Zeitung.

You do not hear many official Muslim voices condemning Islamic State, says Rhonheimer. And when it finally happens, it is usually only to condemn the bestiality because it harms Islam’s reputation. The Islamic State is no heresy, [that is, straying from core Islam] but “a recurring pattern in the history of violent expansion. The model is Muhammad himself.”

“Islamic State’s legitimation finds its basis in the Koran and Islamic law, the Sharia,” believes the Catholic professor. He states: “You will find no arguments within Muslim theology that can be used to condemn Islamic State’s behavior as un-Islamic.”…

Martin Rhonheimer then goes through the suras in the Quran that prescribe what should happen to the conquered Christians and Jews, and points out that the Islamic State strictly adheres to these regulations. Islam would like to influence the state and society in details, emphasizes Rhonheimer.

“Islam is more than a religion. It is cult with political and social rules and unites religion and and political and social order in one. And it has always been violent,” he says…]

Moderate Islam has its advocates, often professors at Western universities.

“But they are confronted with Islam’s central problem: when they return to Islam’s origin, they come across the warlike, expansionist Islam from Medina, the legitimacy of killing for Allah’s honor and a violent Muhammad,” writes Rhonheimer.
 
Randy_Carson said:
Islam’s central problem
Posted on 8 October 2014 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
wdtprs.com/blog/2014/10/islams-central-problem/

I saw this at Jihad Watch and thought…. “Yep.”

On the heals of the Feast of the Holy Rosary (Our Lady of Victory)…

Where is the border between Islam and Islamism? The media says that the two are different as night and day; Islam is a religion of peace, and the Islamists have stolen the name. [Does anyone believe that?] Others believe that Islamism represents the traditional, pure Islam, true to the Koran.

This latter view is advanced, remarkably enough, by a theologian Martin Rhonheimer from a university endorsed by the Pope. He is a professor at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome and wrote an essay on this particular distinction in the Neue Zürcher Zeitung.

You do not hear many official Muslim voices condemning Islamic State, says Rhonheimer. And when it finally happens, it is usually only to condemn the bestiality because it harms Islam’s reputation. The Islamic State is no heresy, [that is, straying from core Islam] but “a recurring pattern in the history of violent expansion. The model is Muhammad himself.”

“Islamic State’s legitimation finds its basis in the Koran and Islamic law, the Sharia,” believes the Catholic professor. He states: “You will find no arguments within Muslim theology that can be used to condemn Islamic State’s behavior as un-Islamic.”…

Martin Rhonheimer then goes through the suras in the Quran that prescribe what should happen to the conquered Christians and Jews, and points out that the Islamic State strictly adheres to these regulations. Islam would like to influence the state and society in details, emphasizes Rhonheimer.

“Islam is more than a religion. It is cult with political and social rules and unites religion and and political and social order in one. And it has always been violent,” he says…]

Moderate Islam has its advocates, often professors at Western universities.

“But they are confronted with Islam’s central problem: when they return to Islam’s origin, they come across the warlike, expansionist Islam from Medina, the legitimacy of killing for Allah’s honor and a violent Muhammad,” writes Rhonheimer.
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Yeah, that kind of sums it up, doesn’t it?
 
Randy_Carson said:
Islam’s central problem
Posted on 8 October 2014 by Fr. John Zuhlsdorf
wdtprs.com/blog/2014/10/islams-central-problem/

I saw this at Jihad Watch and thought…. “Yep.”

On the heals of the Feast of the Holy Rosary (Our Lady of Victory)…

Where is the border between Islam and Islamism? The media says that the two are different as night and day; Islam is a religion of peace, and the Islamists have stolen the name. [Does anyone believe that?] Others believe that Islamism represents the traditional, pure Islam, true to the Koran.

This latter view is advanced, remarkably enough, by a theologian Martin Rhonheimer from a university endorsed by the Pope. He is a professor at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross in Rome and wrote an essay on this particular distinction in the Neue Zürcher Zeitung.

You do not hear many official Muslim voices condemning Islamic State, says Rhonheimer. And when it finally happens, it is usually only to condemn the bestiality because it harms Islam’s reputation. The Islamic State is no heresy, [that is, straying from core Islam] but “a recurring pattern in the history of violent expansion. The model is Muhammad himself.”

“Islamic State’s legitimation finds its basis in the Koran and Islamic law, the Sharia,” believes the Catholic professor. He states: “You will find no arguments within Muslim theology that can be used to condemn Islamic State’s behavior as un-Islamic.”…

Martin Rhonheimer then goes through the suras in the Quran that prescribe what should happen to the conquered Christians and Jews, and points out that the Islamic State strictly adheres to these regulations. Islam would like to influence the state and society in details, emphasizes Rhonheimer.

“Islam is more than a religion. It is cult with political and social rules and unites religion and and political and social order in one. And it has always been violent,” he says…]

Moderate Islam has its advocates, often professors at Western universities.

“But they are confronted with Islam’s central problem: when they return to Islam’s origin, they come across the warlike, expansionist Islam from Medina, the legitimacy of killing for Allah’s honor and a violent Muhammad,” writes Rhonheimer.
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And is Father someone who could be considered an expert on the subject matter; or is his status as a professor, a theologian, and member of staff at a Pontifical university being used in a good example of appealing to authority?
 
A bishop in the Middl East who lost many members to ISIS said that many Muslims do not like what ISIS and others of same are doing because they know it is in the Quoran.

I am wondering if ISIS proceeds into Saudi Arabia, if seeing more of their brutality…this also be a time to pray for Muslim conversions. I also read a former Muslim who is now Catholic stating to watch Turkey as the possible platform for a new caliphate…it is already making land claims to America…Muslims discovering America before the Europeans…

I think we are only at the beginning to witness more muslim atrocities.
 
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