Are dissenters "in the Church"?

[reggieM]

I was wondering the following: Are groups who dissent, for example, Catholics for a Free Choice, still “in the Church” ?

If they are, then this would mean that Catholics can believe different things and still be Catholic. From someone looking on the outside in, they will say, "See, Catholics aren’t united at all, they believe various different things about such things as abortion, homosexuality, etc.

To me it would seem that they have put themselves outside the Church. This would make sense, then one can claim “true” Catholics who are “in the Church” all believe the same…

That is right. They’ve put themselves outside of the Church. For example, a pastor could require any parishioner to affirm any authorized Profession of Faith, or to affirm the defined teachings of the Church (on abortion or other matters).

Of course, in any RCIA program, a candidate can be refused entry into the Church if he or she does not believe all of the teachings of the Church. It follows logically, when one later rejects any of those teachings, the person has lapsed in the faith.

The fact that people who are auto-excommunicated continue to claim that they’re Catholic and continue to make sacrilegious Communions is not a statement against the Church but about the lack of honesty that such dissenters bring with them.

The pending excommunication of Father Roy Bourgeois (who dissents from the magisterium of the Church) is a very good example. Unless he recants his position, he will be excommunicated. But it’s not the excommunication that removes him from the Catholic communion, but rather his heretical belief.

At the same time, everyone who is baptised in the Catholic Church receives an indelible mark of membership in the Church and will be judged by God as a Catholic, even after publicly renouncing membership in the Church.

But in the general sense of the term, a “true Catholic” is one who believes all that the Church teaches, even if falling short on the practice of the belief.

Dissent from the teachings of the Church is an apostasy from the Faith.

 

[rwoehmke]

Lord have mercy on all of us sinners. Cleanse us of our pride whether we are true believers or dissenters.

 

[Teflon93]

Are saints praised for their obedience or for their dissent?

It is a folly of the modern age that dissent is the highest form of anything except disobedience or pride.

We all long to hear “Well done, thou good and faithful servant” on the day we are judged, not “Good point—I was mistaken about that.”

 

[Coder]

Dear Mimi, you have my empathy.

What I want to know is, if a priest knows for certain a parishioner is an active member of say, Call to Action, and after counseling that person to quite the group and repent, but this person does not – then when this person presents himself for Communion is the priest obligated to deny him?

I don’t know but the priest could give sermons that would make people associated with such a group aware of the spiritual harm of receiving communion in a state of opposition to Church teaching. St Paul even refers to people becoming ill and dying from receiving communion unworthily. See 1 Corinthians 11:29-30: usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians11.htm

Something we should all heed.

Also, what about if the person sees no need to repent or the priest does know of the activity and does not help the person to repent or at least see that belonging to a dissenting group harms the Body of Christ?

Find out if the priest is familiar with Call to Action and where he stands. Contrast Ordinatio Sacerdotalis with what Call to Action is saying for the priest and/or the parishioners in question as you see appropriate.

 

[Mimi]

Dear Mimi, you have my empathy.

I don’t know but the priest could give sermons that would make people associated with such a group aware of the spiritual harm of receiving communion in a state of opposition to Church teaching. St Paul even refers to people becoming ill and dying from receiving communion unworthily. See 1 Corinthians 11:29-30: usccb.org/nab/bible/1corinthians/1corinthians11.htm

Something we should all heed.

Find out if the priest is familiar with Call to Action and where he stands. Contrast Ordinatio Sacerdotalis with what Call to Action is saying for the priest and/or the parishioners in question as you see appropriate.

Find out if the priest is familiar with Call to Action and where he stands.

I’m kinda afraid to find out. We already knows he is amenable to some dissent. Some trust has already been eroded since he allowed a video of Sr. Joan Chittister to be shown at a women’s retreat; he allowed a religious sister to give the homily at a Mission and the team had a book written by a dissenting theologian for sale; he’s encouraging us to join a “faith-based community organization” (think little ACORN) which sounds like they use Liberation Theology to me – that enough to give you the picture? We had a meeting with him a few wks ago to see where he stood on things and I am not encouraged.

I’d like to move to a nearby parish in another diocese where the bishop actually REFUSED to give out the CCHD envelopes in Nov. DH does not want to leave yet. There are good people there, they are either clueless or don’t want to make waves. Too bad. Our school is dying for lack of pupils, yet we never hear a sermon on NFP, or why contraception is sinful; or a throroughly pro-life sermon. Our pro-life groups feels he does just enough. He is busy (with 2 parishes), but he would gain more support AND new parishioners if he were not so willing to give in to the dissenters, IMO.

God bless,
Mimi

 

[Cecil84]

There are many dissenters in the Church. When I was in Chicago, the whole place was looney tunes. The sign of peace would last 15 minutes and the priest would walk up and down all the aisles shaking hands. CTU is a hot bed for wacky ideas. Thankfully, the worst offending religious groups are getting old and dying off.