Are "drag shows" against Catholic teaching?

[Jen95]

Are drag shows against Catholic teaching? Or are they harmless entertainment?
Or are they akin to a minstrel show, only demeaning women instead of African-Americans?
–Please don’t bother to post any popcorn emojis.–

If not, why not?
If so, why?
Here’s a link that discusses a response from the Vatican about this. But perhaps it only applies in the context of a Catholic University that holds drag shows?

Vatican warns University of San Diego on drag shows - California Catholic Daily

 

[TheLittleLady]

I think there is already a thread open about drag shows.

Drag Queen Show At Highschool Moral Theology

Making fun of others isn’t self deprecation.

 

[LittleFlower378]

For men to be acting effeminate and women to be acting as men is a sin. Men and women are different in many many aspects…that is so obvious but in today’s society it has actually come into question in my opinion due to radical feminism.

 

[Pitcairn17]

For men to be acting effeminate and women to be acting as men is a sin. Men and women are different in many many aspects…that is so obvious but in today’s society it has actually come into question in my opinion due to radical feminism.

What’s your definition of “women acting as men?” — being in the military? Being firefighters or police? Playing baseball instead of softball? Drinking beer in public? Working in any capacity outside the home, except perhaps as teachers or nurses? Which of these do you find sinful?

 

[goout]

Are drag shows against Catholic teaching? Or are they harmless entertainment?
Or are they akin to a minstrel show, only demeaning women instead of African-Americans?
–Please don’t bother to post any popcorn emojis.–

If not, why not?
If so, why?
Here’s a link that discusses a response from the Vatican about this. But perhaps it only applies in the context of a Catholic University that holds drag shows?
Vatican warns University of San Diego on drag shows - California Catholic Daily

What does your best judgment tell you?

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

I think we’ll need some clarity on what exactly is meant by a ‘drag show’ here. I believe what will determine the admissibility of one will depend on the content on the show itself and not so much that a person is playing in a gender bending role for entertainment. Given the link you posted I’d assume the content of that particular show was objectionable:
Cal Catholic:

After attending both drag shows together with students Thomas McKenna said: “I witnessed many examples of behavior and statements on moral issues which contradicted or ignored magisterial teachings.” Not only was the Catholic Church’s teaching ignored, but it was mocked.

Dressing up and playing as the opposite sex, whether tastefully done or playing to exaggerated stereotypes isn’t inherently sinful, but let me tell you as a resident of San Francisco who has seen a number of “drag shows” as they’re usually understood in the gay community, they’re usually bombastically smutty, wildly offensive affairs. You think the Super Bowl Halftime show was inappropriate? Come see a show in a bar at random in the Castro district of SF. We’re talking extremely suggestive dancing, revealing attire, and promotion of all manner of filth within the show. The picture actually used in that article is of a “Sister of Perpetual Indulgence” which is a group of men who mock Catholicism pretending to be an order of nuns/sisters who take every chance to commit public acts of blasphemy.

When people talk about “drag”, this is usually what they mean, and I believe such entertainment is unbecoming of a Catholic.

 

[Jen95]

My conscience tells me it is against Catholic teaching, but many many other Catholics seem to see it as harmless fun. So I’m wondering if there is a consensus of what the Church teaches about such things.
I’m just doing a check to see if I’m a crazy prude person.

 

[goout]

My conscience tells me it is, but many many other Catholics seem to see it as harmless fun. So I’m wondering if there is a consensus of what the Church teaches about such things.
I’m just doing a check to see if I’m a crazy prude person.

Trust your God-given instincts and walk way. Don’t worry about what others consider harmless. They less you are entwined in these issues, the less harmful they are.

 

[Thorolfr]

I think we’ll need some clarity on what exactly is a number of “drag shows” as they’re usually understood in the gay community, they’re usually bombastically smutty, wildly offensive affairs. You think the Super Bowl Halftime show was inappropriate? Come see a show in a bar at random in the Castro district of SF. We’re talking extremely suggestive dancing, revealing attire, and promotion of all manner of filth within the show…

When people talk about “drag”, this is usually what they mean, and I believe such entertainment is unbecoming of a Catholic.

How many devout Catholics do you suppose would be likely to want to visit some gay bars in the Castro? And most of the people who do frequent such bars are unlikely to be concerned about Catholic teaching. It’s also kind of ironic that unlike most men, most of the patrons of gay bars wouldn’t even find it titillating to watch what looks like a woman in revealing attire or engaging in suggestive dancing.

 

[AlbertDerGrosse]

How many devout Catholics do you suppose would be likely to want to visit some gay bars in the Castro? And most of the people who do frequent such bars are unlikely to be concerned about Catholic teaching. It’s also kind of ironic that unlike most men, most of the patrons of gay bars wouldn’t even find it titillating to watch what looks like a woman in revealing attire or engaging in suggestive dancing.

Hi Thorolfr.

The topic of this thread is “Are ‘drag shows’ against Catholic teaching?” I answered in the spirit of that topic. I’m sorry my answer wasn’t satisfying to you and your relentless crusade here at CAF to apologize for everything LGBT.

 

[Thorolfr]

Thorolfr:

How many devout Catholics do you suppose would be likely to want to visit some gay bars in the Castro? And most of the people who do frequent such bars are unlikely to be concerned about Catholic teaching. It’s also kind of ironic that unlike most men, most of the patrons of gay bars wouldn’t even find it titillating to watch what looks like a woman in revealing attire or engaging in suggestive dancing.

Hi Thorolfr.

The topic of this thread is “Are ‘drag shows’ against Catholic teaching?” I answered in the spirit of that topic. I’m sorry my answer wasn’t satisfying to you and your relentless crusade here at CAF to apologize for everything LGBT.

I was just wondering whether it’s really true that when most straight people think of drag shows, they think of drag shows like those in gay bars in the Castro since I didn’t think that most straight people go to gay bars in the Castro. And most drag shows in San Francisco don’t take place in the Castro. It seems more likely to me that nowadays they probably think of RuPaul’s Drag Race, a TV show. Or they might think of the act that Barry Humphries, a straight man, did until a few years ago as Dame Edna Everage. Also, I have been to some drag shows, including in San Francisco, and not all of them seemed to me to be as “smutty” as you suggest.

Dame Edna Everage - Wikipedia

And I’m not trying to apologize for LGBT people since I don’t think that they usually have more to apologize for than most people. But I do try to point out what sometimes seem like inaccurate statements or impressions of what LGBT people are like.

 

[Jen95]

I’m thinking of the trashy, more modern suggestive drag shows. Not Dame Edna style.
Lewd dancing in high heels and full make-up, like they do at school assemblies and storytime.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Have you been to a drag show? There is something between Dame Edna and RuPaul.

 

[Thorolfr]

I’m thinking of the trashy, more modern suggestive drag shows. Not Dame Edna style.
Lewd dancing in high heels and full make-up, like they do at school assemblies and storytime.

How many of these story hours and school assemblies featuring drag queens have you actually attended? Do most of the drag queens at these events really engage in lewd dancing or are you relying on one event that you read about somewhere in making this assumption? I’ve never been to one of these events, but at least when it comes to the story hours, I would have thought that the drag queens were there to read books, not dance.

 

[ricmat]

I have 2 questions.

1. Why would anyone want to be in a drag show?
2. Why would anyone want to watch a drag show?

I suggest that one answer is “envy”. They want to have something that does not belong to them, and which they can never have… i.e. the sexuality of the opposite sex.

To the extent that this is true, it would be against Catholic teaching.

IMHO

 

[Irishmom2]

After reading both threads currently running, I am wondering why? What is the purpose?

Why does it appeal to people? I don’t understand.

 

[Allegra]

The third one. I find them offensive. I’m sure that not everyone involved in them is trying to degrade women, just as probably not everyone who ever was involved in a minstrel show were really out to degrade black people, but that is the end result.

 

[Bruised_Reed]

I have 2 questions.

1. Why would anyone want to be in a drag show?

To perform and to have fun. I wanted try drag after the first show I went to and have played around with a creating a persona including my drag name and what I’d perform to, and my costume. It’s a art.

Why would anyone want to watch a drag show?

To be entertained, mainly. The drag show nearest me donated to charities so all the tips collected go to them and I like supporting that.

I’m sure that not everyone involved in them is trying to degrade women

I would say most aren’t. Their performances are often an homage to a woman in part.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

“Are drag shows against Catholic teaching” is like asking “Are heavy metal concerts against Catholic teaching” or “Are sci-fi-fantasy novels against Catholic teaching.”

It depends on many things including

• the content - is it obscene, blasphemous, uncharitable, etc.
• the context - who’s appearing in it, who’s putting it on, where, why, who’s expected to attend, who’s making money off it
• whether participation and viewing this is voluntary, or are people being forced to either perform in it or view it, against their will or (if minors) against their parents’ wishes

With the exception of pornography and cruelty, I don’t go for blanket bans on entire genres of entertainment.

Drag shows aren’t for everybody, so I would suggest that those who don’t like them, don’t watch them.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

as a resident of San Francisco who has seen a number of “drag shows” as they’re usually understood in the gay community, they’re usually bombastically smutty, wildly offensive affairs.
…
When people talk about “drag”, this is usually what they mean, and I believe such entertainment is unbecoming of a Catholic.

The OP was in the other thread about drag shows at a high school objecting to “high school appropriate” drag shows, including the comedic kind where the football team dresses up in old ladies’ outfits from the Goodwill as a fundraising joke.

Also, there have been plenty of popular TV shows and movies involving crossdressing or drag performers that weren’t smut-a-minute. “Tootsie” and “Mrs. Doubtfire” and even “The Crying Game” were not smutty movies.

If you’re objecting to an obscene drag show, then you’re objecting to the fact that the content is filthy, not that someone is performing the obscenity and filth in a drag costume. It would be just as bad if they performed it dressed as their own gender.