Are "drag shows" against Catholic teaching?

[AlruwhAlquds]

I think it’s naive to think it’s harmless art as some have posted. I agree with many who ask, “What is the purpose, why wear tacky make up as a man and dance, pose and strut as a woman? Does it glorify God?” Sure we do many things here and there and forget God at times, but a performer needs to glorify God and use that God-given talent for God. I mean, Catholic teaching or not…if we all love our Lord and know he equipped us with certain gifts, should we not give back to Him or help use our talents to bring others closer to Him? For those who find drag to be a harmless expression of art, do you truly think many of these “queens” are Catholic/Christan care to use their so called “talent” to bring others closer to God? Is that part of their expression?
You will find a variety of those who participate in drag shows, they will say they are glorifying women, some will not dance explicitly in front of children, some don’t even care what message they’re sending to children. I find it amusing that people want to compare these shows to old Shakespearian plays. You cannot compare this to our past when Shakespearian plays included men dressed as women (it was need for the time). I know society is accepting drag shows more and more and many traditional folks are being swayed to believe this is okay. It’s easy to see how evil sneaks in with the hopes of making this all “normal, fun and accepting.” So tell me the real purpose of these shows? What does this expression of “art” mean for the person? That it’s their body, their choice to be a woman for a day? That the way God created them isn’t enough? What’s the message? Are they bringing people closer to God? Then I have no use for it.

 

[Digitnomy]

Then I have no use for it.

I also have little use for it. I don’t find most drag performances entertaining, partly because I don’t find dance very compelling (dance and related arts are a big part of most drag shows), and also because the implied “punch line” is just “Look! They’re in drag! Hilarious!” No, for me just tedious.

But it’s not about me. The question is whether it is against Catholic teaching.

For those who find drag to be a harmless expression of art, do you truly think many of these “queens” are Catholic/Christan care to use their so called “talent” to bring others closer to God? Is that part of their expression?

I have been to a few"powder puff" football games where the women play football and the men are cheerleaders, hamming up their respective roles. A number of the participants I knew from church, some fairly devout.

Talent level didn’t seem very high, but if one felt differently and chose to continue this activity from time to time, I don’t see how that would be different from doing it once.

I find it amusing that people want to compare these shows to old Shakespearian plays. You cannot compare this to our past when Shakespearian plays included men dressed as women (it was need for the time).

Fair enough the female characters were men in drag as the time required, and mostly only acknowledged in passing.

However that is not true of all Shakespeare, for instance Twelfth Night. There the crossdressing is an integral part of the story, and hammed up for effect - much like drag shows.

And as others have mentioned, this has been an aspect of various popular movies at least back to the 50s and 60s, so it’s not as though this is a 21st century aberration.

What does this expression of “art” mean for the person? That it’s their body, their choice to be a woman for a day? That the way God created them isn’t enough? What’s the message?

The same argument can be made against anyone acting a part, or more broadly any modification like makeup, or wearing dressy clothes, etc. “You brushed your hair for Mass today- wasn’t the way God created you enough?”

 

[Thorolfr]

So tell me the real purpose of these shows? What does this expression of “art” mean for the person? That it’s their body, their choice to be a woman for a day? That the way God created them isn’t enough? What’s the message? Are they bringing people closer to God? Then I have no use for it.

We might ask the same thing about most great movies that have ever been made. Why would Judy Garland want to pretend on film to be a little girl from Kansas who gets blown to a place with wicked witches, flying monkeys, talking lions and a tin man? Isn’t she happy just being Judy Garland and how did the movie, The Wizard of Oz, glorify God? Or why did Vivien Leigh pretend on film to be the daughter of a Georgia plantation owner during the time of the Civil War and how did Gone with the Wind glorify God?

 

[AlruwhAlquds]

I brushed my hair for mass because when I see Jesus, I think I want to look my best. When I honor someone or something of importance that’s what I do. I don’t see how the same argument can be made…you are stretching it here! You cannot compare drag to brushing your hair for mass!

There’s a big difference between Shakespeare and dancing explicitly in front of children, some with devil horns in their fake blonde wigs for example. Again, I don’t see your point, you can’t compare that.

Looking professional for mass and drag are not the same. Drag is dressing as a woman and being sexualized, you are sexually exploring yourself and that is not for the greater glory of God. Those cross dressers in the 50’s and 60’s in selected classics are not the same. People can choose to not see the movie. Allowing drag shows publicly pushes it on those who don’t want to see it and if you object, you are a prune.

As I said before, specific Catholic teaching aside: What’s the purpose ? Drag shows are about being sexualized, this sends the wrong message to impressionable children and adults who don’t know God.

 

[AlruwhAlquds]

Okay so based on this, you think it’s okay for drag queens (men) to prance around and be sexualized publicly? Are there any rules for them? Can they glorify satan and wear their devil horns and speedos with high heels anywhere? Around children, can they dance explicitly?

God loves all forms of art, but drag is sexualization. Drag is about the self and sexualization.
You cannot compare drag to classics. I don’t think a true Catholic/Christian should be part of it because it’s sexualized behavior. God is clear when He says sexual exploitation is a sin. “If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out.” Which is about lust.

 

[VeryBlessed]

With a debatable issue, I always ask myself, would I be proud to do this or take part in this if Jesus were right there beside me, or if he were in the audience? Would I feel kind of funny about it, or ashamed, or feel embarrassed for him and feel bad he had to see it?

 

[Thorolfr]

Okay so based on this, you think it’s okay for drag queens (men) to prance around and be sexualized publicly? Are there any rules for them? Can they glorify satan and wear their devil horns and speedos with high heels anywhere? Around children, can they dance explicitly?

God loves all forms of art, but drag is sexualization. Drag is about the self and sexualization.

As has been pointed out, not all “drag queens” are the same. A few years ago, I went to see Barry Humphries do his act as Dame Edna. He didn’t prance around in a Speedo. In fact, he didn’t do any dancing at all and there was nothing sexual about his act unless someone finds 80 year old women with big purple hair, over-the-top, gaudy dresses and cat eye glasses with rhinestones sexy. I had a good time seeing Humphries. His act was hilarious.

Dame Edna Everage - Wikipedia

 

[Irishmom2]

And would you still have thought it was so hilarious had it actually been an older woman with lilac colored hair and cat lady glasses? I think that you must admit, part of the appeal is that it was a man dressed as a woman.

 

[ricmat]

And would you still have thought it was so hilarious had it actually been an older woman with lilac colored hair and cat lady glasses? I think that you must admit, part of the appeal is that it was a man dressed as a woman.

Why is there any appeal at all based on the fact that is involves a man dressed as a woman? What values does it have that make it appealing? Why would anybody find it more appealing than an actual woman doing it, and why is that?

 

[Thorolfr]

And would you still have thought it was so hilarious had it actually been an older woman with lilac colored hair and cat lady glasses? I think that you must admit, part of the appeal is that it was a man dressed as a woman.

If Humphries had been a real woman, the act would still have been funny. Humphries is a commedian, so most of the act is a lot of jokes and the over-the-top hair and dresses and the silly persona created by Humphries would have made me laugh even if it had been a woman playing the part.

 

[Irishmom2]

@ricmat, I don’t know, I was wondering the same thing myself.

 

[Jen95]

Oh – do you think that people consider Dame Edna to be a “drag queen”? I’m puzzled by that.

 

[Thorolfr]

Oh – do you think that people consider Dame Edna to be a “drag queen”? I’m puzzled by that.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, a “drag queen” is defined as follows: “a man who dresses up in women’s clothes, typically for the purposes of entertainment.” That definition seems to me to describe what Humphries does. Don’t you think so?

 

[Jen95]

In Dame Edna’s Wikipedia page, it doesn’t even call her a drag queen.
I think most people (myself included) think of her as a comedic character or persona.
If you were to advertise a drag show, and all the performers were akin to Dame Edna, talking and telling jokes, no dancing or over-the-top clothing or makeup styles, do you think that’s what people expect to see?

 

[Thorolfr]

In Dame Edna’s Wikipedia page, it doesn’t even call her a drag queen.
I think most people (myself included) think of her as a comedic character or persona.
If you were to advertise a drag show, and all the performers were akin to Dame Edna, talking and telling jokes, no dancing or provocative clothing or makeup styles, do you think that’s what people expect to see?

The drag queens I’ve seen are all different. Some of them have looked like real, beautiful women and their goal no doubt was to look as convincingly like a real woman as possible with no “provocative clothing or makeup styles.” Some have danced, but others haven’t and just tried to look and act like a celebrity actress from the past or like a celebrity singer while lip syncing to a song. Some, also like Dame Edna, have been older men with over-the-top clothing and hair, but nothing particularly sexual.

 

[Jen95]

Hmm. I notice you didn’t answer my question.

 

[Thorolfr]

Hmm. I notice you didn’t answer my question.

If a drag show was advertised and all the performers were like Dame Edna, I have no idea whether that is what people would expect to see. Other than expecting men dressed as women, I don’t have a particular idea myself of what I would expect to see at a drag show since, as I said, the drag queens I’ve seen in the past have all been different.

How many drag shows or drag queens have you seen? As a gay man, I’ve seen quite a lot of drag queens in my life and probably about six or seven drag shows of various sorts.

 

[Jen95]

Jen95:

Hmm. I notice you didn’t answer my question.

If a drag show was advertised and all the performers were like Dame Edna, I have no idea whether that is what people would expect to see. …
How many drag shows or drag queens have you seen? As a gay man, I’ve seen quite a lot of drag queens in my life and probably about six or seven drag shows of various sorts.

You are a veritable expert! Good thing you are here to set us straight.
I find it strange that this entertainment is becoming more and more mainstreamed. I personally have only seen such things on TV/ movies / news stories.

 

[ricmat]

I find it strange that this entertainment is becoming more and more mainstreamed.

From my perspective it looks like part of a larger agenda. Drag queen reading hours for children in public libraries. Cross dressing characters on Sesame Street. Perhaps the agenda is to make people more amenable to certain types of behavior.

 

[VeryBlessed]

Some things that used to be perfectly OK or not wrong become wrong over time, because of the way the world around us is changing. Consider that some 40 years ago, it would’ve been perfectly fine for me as a man to tell a woman in my work place that she looked really pretty that day, and she might have been gladdened by the comment. But now I could be fired for saying it, even if I meant it perfectly innocently. So it has become wrong because of how sexually charged our society has become. I wonder if the same comes into play here. Flip Wilson and Geraldine was performed in a far different world than the world of today. It’s sad. The depravity of our culture is ruining many things that might once have been ok.

We throw sex in people’s faces all the time, and then we get offended when they see a sexual “agenda” everywhere. Crazy.