Are Drum Sets and Electric Guitars Ever Appropriate For Mass?

[kovalcik]

I guess I would question the association of drums and e-guitars only with hard rock. The electric guitar was invented in the 1930’s and the drum set dates back to the 19th century (both long before rock music came onto the scene). The purpose of the electric guitar was to make it loud enough to be heard over other instruments. It is used in many genres of music, not just rock. The electric guitar is no more “secular” than the microphone and PA systems which are in wide use in the Church (and rock concerts).

Yes the electric guitar is played by people like Keith Richards and Angus Young, but it is also played by people like Steve Mason (Jars of Clay), Matt Hoopes (Relient K), Kerry Livgren (AD), and Matt Maher. If your perception of guitarists is the former rather than the latter, maybe you need to change your radio station.

Certainly, the pedigree of the guitar is no worse than that of the organ which was associated with circuses and theatre before it was introduced into the Church around 600 AD. The arguments against the organ are said to have lasted into the 12th century. Hopefully this thead won’t last that long.

But even so, our governing body (USCCB) has stated that we are not to confuse the judgement of the value of music with the judgement of musical style. (nccbuscc.org/liturgy/current/musiccathworship.shtml). Simply put, music in rock style is not necessarily bad. The Bishops also laud the addition of modern music to the traditional. So the argument that music that sounds like other secular music is bad is not upheld in the writings of our bishops.

Lets judge the value of a piece of music on what truly matters:

1. Are the words true to the liturgy and Catholic teaching.
   and
2. Does the music promote the act of worship by the congregation at hand, and enhance their involvement in the liturgy.

 

[kovalcik]

Life teen masses are an abomination as they completely destroy the sense of the Sacred and violate so many Rubrics of the Mass

Please do not make such blanket statements. I have been to many Life Teen masses that are more faithful to the Rubrics than other so called “traditional” masses. And I have not seen anything that comes closer to Sacred than a church full of teens in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[Michael_Welter]

So what instruments would you classify as suitable only for secular music if not drum sets and electric guitars? What musical instument is more secular than an electric guitar?

How about the organ, which was originally created for circus music? In fact, to my knowledge, there has never been an instrument invented for sacred music. And since the Word of God, in Psalm 150, tells us to praise Him with all sorts of instruments, including tambourines and cymbals, I don’t understand what the argument is about.

 

[Michael_Welter]

I have been to many Life Teen masses that are more faithful to the Rubrics than other so called “traditional” masses. And I have not seen anything that comes closer to Sacred than a church full of teens in adoration before the Blessed Sacrament.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Certainly, the pedigree of the guitar is no worse than that of the organ which was associated with circuses and theatre before it was introduced into the Church around 600 AD. The arguments against the organ are said to have lasted into the 12th century. Hopefully this thead won’t last that long.

I have often heard this argument from Eastern Orthodox Christians as to why they do not use musical instruments. The early Greek hydraulus may be considered an ancestor of the organ, but bore little semblance to it. This was the ancient circus and war instrument, and had little in common with a modern pipe organ. It was more like a primitive air whistle that sounded a drone for chanting. They were originally powered by a water-filled diaphragm, and later a bellows. Some had several notes that could be combined like a modern Indian shruti box, but is was not until the Middle Ages that an organ with a keyboard and the ability to play melodies came about. Until this time, the primitive organ or regal (with obnoxious reeds) was basically used for a drone. Unlike the modern Spanish-type acoustic guitar, which has always been a folk instrument since the first tars and dutars of ancient Persia and has no liturgical history in the Church (and no, the composition of Stille Nacht doesn’t count!), the medieval/modern pipe organ was purely a Church development. As Church music developed and became more complex, so did the organ, culminating in the magnificent Cavaille-Coll organs produced in late 19th century France. And yet the world’s oldest working organ, dating from around the year 1250, is still used regularly in its original Swiss parish. It is chromatic and can play in any key. Without a capo.

 

[Chris-WA]

How about the organ, which was originally created for circus music? In fact, to my knowledge, there has never been an instrument invented for sacred music. And since the Word of God, in Psalm 150, tells us to praise Him with all sorts of instruments, including tambourines and cymbals, I don’t understand what the argument is about.

I think your statement here is frankly silly, especially the first sentence. Surely you know that the Church gives the organ “pride of place” in liturgical music. If you disagree, than you disagree with the official teaching of the Church on this matter. Now, as far as your historical statement on the original purpose of the organ, I think that is a far cry from organ music used for liturgical purposes.

Maybe I should clarify why I have a propblem with drum sets and electric guitars. When I see them used in Mass, they are generally not played in a classical style. They are played in a rock-and-roll style with a rock-and-roll beat. That is irreverent and distracting. How anyone can claim this style of music is appropriate for mass I do not know. It’s not sacred music, it’s entertainment. I like rock and roll as much as the next guy, but I recognize that there is a time and a place for everything. This style of music is secular in nature and takes away from the sacred atmosphere of Mass. My complaint is that many parishes have largely done away with sacred music in favor of pop junk in order to entertain the crowd. Gone is an atomsphere of respect and humility before God. The church gives leeway in this matter, but many parishes take it too far.

 

[wynd]

I think your statement here is frankly silly, especially the first sentence. Surely you know that the Church gives the organ “pride of place” in liturgical music. If you disagree, than you disagree with the official teaching of the Church on this matter.

Actually, church teaching is that Gregorian chant has pride of place. (Sacrosanctum Concilium, 116)

 

[Michael_Welter]

Maybe I should clarify why I have a propblem with drum sets and electric guitars. When I see them used in Mass, they are generally not played in a classical style.

Uh . . . what’s your point? Where in Church teaching, scripture, or apostolic writings do we see any mention that Liturgical Music must be in a classical style? You are certainly entitled to your opinion as to what style of music you prefer at Mass, but in no way is anyone else obliged to share your opinion. Scripture is very clear that many styles of instruments are to be used in the worship of God. This isn’t my opinion. This is the Word of God.

 

[Chris-WA]

Actually, church teaching is that Gregorian chant has pride of place. (Sacrosanctum Concilium, 116)

Yes, you are right. That is my mistake. I got organ music confused with Gregorian chant. Here is what it says about the organ:
120. In the Latin Church the pipe organ is to be held in high esteem, for it is the traditional musical instrument which adds a wonderful splendor to the Church’s ceremonies and powerfully lifts up man’s mind to God and to higher things.
Though other instruments are not excluded, there are conditions for their use:
But other instruments also may be admitted for use in divine worship, with the knowledge and consent of the competent territorial authority, as laid down in Art. 22, 52, 37, and 40. This may be done, however, only on condition that the instruments are suitable, or can be made suitable, for sacred use, accord with the dignity of the temple, and truly contribute to the edification of the faithful.

1. Composers, filled with the Christian spirit, should feel that their vocation is to cultivate sacred music and increase its store of treasures.

Let them produce compositions which have the qualities proper to genuine sacred music, not confining themselves to works which can be sung only by large choirs, but providing also for the needs of small choirs and for the active participation of the entire assembly of the faithful.

The texts intended to be sung must always be in conformity with Catholic doctrine; indeed they should be drawn chiefly from holy scripture and from liturgical sources.
My point is that it’s a stretch for rock-and-roll to qualify as sacred music in light of the above paragraphs. And we all know that the local bishops haven’t necessarily approved that type of music. The parish music groups do because they like it. They don’t ask permission from the bishop.

 

[Chris-WA]

Uh . . . what’s your point? Where in Church teaching, scripture, or apostolic writings do we see any mention that Liturgical Music must be in a classical style? You are certainly entitled to your opinion as to what style of music you prefer at Mass, but in no way is anyone else obliged to share your opinion. Scripture is very clear that many styles of instruments are to be used in the worship of God. This isn’t my opinion. This is the Word of God.

Please don’t confuse instruments mentioned in the Old Testament with modern-day rock-and-roll drum sets and electric guitars. Don’t use the bible as a license to say that any form of music is alright. That is not the intent of those passages. Surely there are limits as to what is acceptable and what is not. So far the only thing people see as undesirable is the cazoo (oh, and one person said the organ even though the Church says otherwise.)

 

[Michael_Welter]

My point is that it’s a stretch for rock-and-roll to qualify as sacred music in light of the above paragraphs. And we all know that the local bishops haven’t necessarily approved that type of music. The parish music groups do because they like it. They don’t ask permission from the bishop.

I think I would agree with you, as long as we agree on a definition of “rock-and-roll”. However, that wasn’t the question. Drums and electric guitars can be used in many styles of music besides rock-and-roll. They are very common is contemporary praise and worship music, which is very different from rock-and-roll.

 

[Michael_Welter]

Surely there are limits as to what is acceptable and what is not. So far the only thing people see as undesirable is the cazoo (oh, and one person said the organ even though the Church says otherwise.)

I agree with you completely here. There are styles of music that are completely unacceptable at Mass. It’s not the instruments that are unacceptable. It’s the way they are played that makes acceptable or unacceptable.

 

[sea_oat]

I’m not a fan of guitars, and drumsets at Mass. Even when I was growing up Protestant, I felt a distaste for the contemporary Christian music you’d hear at some churches, and youth group meetings.

However, I’m not here to pass judgment on the people who do like it. I don’t see it as liturgy abuse, or anything, so perhaps this topic can be chalked up to a different strokes for different folks type of thing.

 

[JButky]

IMO, what most people are missing here is that the OP is referring to a SPECIFIC type of drums and guitar.

That is Electric guitar and drum sets. These fall into the general categories of guitars and drums. The question then becomes can drums and guitars in the general sense be made appropriate for liturgical use.

In the general sense, yes, in the specific sense no. The key is that they are made appropriate for liturgical purposes. Electric guitars and drumsets are suited to specific purposes as a sub category of the general classification of which they are a part. And it is not appropriate for liturgy.

One must take their guitar skills or drum skills and apply them to appropraite means for use in liturgy.

I have used or played with guitarists and drummers in Liturgy, but NONE of it resembled anything of the ilk of the electric guitar/Drumset versions that is the point of contention here. These are innappropriate because they were designed for strictly secular purpose and I have yet to find anyone who has managed to appropriately find a way to use them in a manner suitable for liturgy.

Sorry but ROCK STYLED MUSIC ALWAYS becomes the application for these instruments. That is completely backwards. If you are a guitarist or a drummer use your talents appropriately. That is your gift AND your challenge. Don’t force what you want to have on the Church. It just doesn’t work.

Joe B

 

[VociMike]

There are styles of music that are completely unacceptable at Mass…

What styles are completely unacceptable, and why?

 

[Genesis315]

Despite what the USCCB says, they cannot be used. A higher authority takes precedence over a lower one. St. Pius X said here:

“19. The employment of the piano is forbidden in church, as is also that of noisy or frivolous instruments such as drums, cymbals, bells and the like.”

adoremus.org/MotuProprio.html

This was affirmed by John Paul II here (on the centenary of the above cited motu propio):

“Indeed, it is important that the musical compositions used for liturgical celebrations correspond to the criteria appropriately set down by St Pius X and wisely developed by both the Second Vatican Council and the subsequent Magisterium of the Church.”

vatican.va/holy_father/jo…-sacra_en.html

 

[kovalcik]

…and wisely developed by both the Second Vatican Council and the subsequent Magisterium of the Church."

…and the Magisterium does not include the US Bishops?

The second Vatican council allows other syles of music and the US Bishops allow various modern styles.

 

[Genesis315]

…and the Magisterium does not include the US Bishops?

The second Vatican council allows other syles of music and the US Bishops allow various modern styles.

Yes, but they must be subservient to the Roman Pontiff. Modern styles don’t include frivolous instruments. Likewise you can’t appeal to an ecumenical council over a Roman Pontiff. John Paul II and Benedict XVI even moreso have called for a return to more appropriate music for the liturgy. Their criticisms of banal music is directed primarily to the state of affairs in the US and some of Western Europe where the traditional sacred music of the Church and our heritage and culture has been replaced with songs written by protestants, pop and folksy type songs, and otherwise banal songs that do not relate to the utmost sacredness of the Holy and Solemn Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[Genesis315]

As the LORD said to the prophet Jeremiah:

“see and ask for the old paths which is the good way, and walk ye in it: and you shall find refreshment for your souls.” (Jer. 6:16).

 

[Godfollower]

Despite what the USCCB says, they cannot be used. A higher authority takes precedence over a lower one. St. Pius X said here:

“19. The employment of the piano is forbidden in church, as is also that of noisy or frivolous instruments such as drums, cymbals, bells and the like.”

adoremus.org/MotuProprio.html

This was affirmed by John Paul II here (on the centenary of the above cited motu propio):

“Indeed, it is important that the musical compositions used for liturgical celebrations correspond to the criteria appropriately set down by St Pius X and wisely developed by both the Second Vatican Council and the subsequent Magisterium of the Church.”

vatican.va/holy_father/jo…-sacra_en.html

Yes, but the encyclical you cite by Pope Pius X even discourages the use of organ (“Although the music proper to the Church is purely vocal music, music with the accompaniment of the organ is also permitted”) – and it wouldn’t even allow the trumpet voluntary (since it isn’t a choral piece):

As the singing should always have the principal place, the organ or other instruments should merely sustain and never oppress it. It is not permitted to have the chant preceded by long preludes or to interrupt it with intermezzo pieces.

And Pope John Paul II clearly encouraged the use of other instruments. Frankly, I can’t believe that anyone would seriously contend that the piano is absolutely forbidden during the Mass; I’ve heard far more beautiful music on pianos than I have on some organs. Indeed, the JPII enchirograph you cite specifically states that

Since the Church has always recognized and fostered progress in the arts, it should not come as a surprise that in addition to Gregorian chant and polyphony she admits into celebrations even the most modern music, as long as it respects both the liturgical spirit and the true values of this art form.

I would never argue that theology changes over time (other than to develop as time goes on), but clearly music can (e.g., there were no Gregorian chants at the beginning of the Church, nor were there any organs).

The real question, it seems to me, is whether the music supports the liturgy. I’ve seen traditional choirs screw it up, and I’ve seen contemporary groups do it wonderfully (and vice-versa, of course). The fact that I might not care for a particular style of music is not relevant to the question of whether it’s appropriate for Mass. An electric guitar and a drum set can be played appropriately, in a manner furthering the worship at Mass; they can also be played inappropriately, in a manner interfering with the worship. The question isn’t the instrument itself; it’s the choice of song and the manner in which it’s played.