Are formfitting shirts appropriate?

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In other words, you are not amongst the well heeled?

From what I’ve seen, most men will wear the style of clothing from when they graduated high school unless their wives have a say! Definitely true of my husband!
 
My socio-economic status is classified.

Yes, wives should intervene to avoid mismatched clothing disasters, especially those involving shirts and ties.
 
Look into the mirror and figure out if it works or not.
 
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I have found that women, generally, understand men’s clothing better than men do. Some men still get it right but those who don’t were usually never taught.
 
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Nobody thinks like that. Just so you know.
You have made a bold statement and raised the topic yourself.
It’s pointless to bring that up. Absolutely pointless.
Are you saying it was pointless for you to make such a bold statement? It was in response to this
They’re showing too much ear. And those fingers…don’t get me started.
Edwest this is why we need to be wary of generalising.

You are a researcher, editor, and have lived quite some years. What have you learnt of ear adornment and customs in different cultures , and why people do this
 
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You obviously did not read my comment. Men cannot control “lustful suggestions.”

Men can control exterior acts, but they cannot control bad thoughts from popping into their minds from environmental stimuli. If these thoughts are consented to, or not thrown off immediately , they can easily be mortal sins.
So you blame women for all male lustful thoughts???
 
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Pauline Bonaparte, Napoleon’s sister. She is in strict compliance with the modesty requirements of the period: her arms are duly covered all the way down to her wrists.
 
That doesn’t make it appropriate for their day or ours though. I mean, the French have always been known to really push the edges of propriety. While I’m aware that this fashion was also known in Italy and England at the time, I suspect it was a bit scandalous, even then.
 
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But that is impossible!

I’ve seen Muslim women who put a lot of effort into putting make-up onto their beautiful faces; those hijabs aren’t fooling anybody. Even the ones covering their faces can have alluring eyes and a silky feminine voice.

I know of one man who confessed that modest clothing is actually sexy, leaving what “could be” to the imagination.

Bottom line: Men will fantasize about anything, and that’s neither our fault nor our responsibility.
 
As I have said above:

You cannot control lustful suggestions, so it’s the product of nature to “blame” that a majority of young males are visual. A gay man cannot make himself attracted to women anymore than a heterosexual man can stop unwanted thoughts from coming into his mind in the first place. Anymore than you can make yourself “not hungry” or not have thoughts of food pop into your head after 36 hours of fasting!

There is no sin from a lustful suggestion, a bad thought popping into the mind unwanted, even if it happened 1000 times. Because where there is no consent, there is no will. As long as the thought is immediately thrown off (and that means immediately), there is no lustful thought and no mortal sin of complacency.

However, this in no way negates my premise: we are Catholics and should not publically display body parts that shouldn’t be shown in public. Even liberals agree with “lines” (you cannot walk around naked), but obviously as Catholics, we know “lust” and “complacencies” are evil. So we are called to have higher standards and lines than society. Therefore, at a bare minimum, no yoga pants.
 
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Therefore, at a bare minimum, no yoga pants.
So you are okay with breasts now? I’m not a man, but I think I would find a woman with barely concealed breasts considerably more distracting than a woman in yoga pants.

On the other hand, many cultures in many times and places have not had a problem with the exposure of breasts, in the context of their practical use. It is easy to find many images, ancient and more modern, of the Theotokos breastfeeding our Lord. I’ve seen pictures of a Muslim woman wearing an Abaya and hijab, breastfeeding in a train station with full exposure, and nobody stopping to look twice. Cultural conditioning is very effective.
 
Vanity is another topic for another time. Yes, it can be at least venially sinful too.

There is a difference between:
(1) Men voluntarily putting lustful thoughts into their heads (automatically sinful and totally the fault of men)

(2) A man sees something (rated R movie, advertisement, yoga pants) and an unwanted bad thought, against his will, pops into his mind.

I am talking about modesty because of number (2). A woman’s face is nowhere near as likely to put unwanted lustful thoughts (that are not sins as long as they are thrown off instantly) into men’s brains as the two areas of the body that should not be displayed in public. The point remains: certain stimuli (the areas of the body you are not allowed to display in public), regardless of culture, but just because of how men are wired, universally (and in general, exceptions exist), have the potential to put unwanted “suggestions” into the minds of the majority of young men!
 
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First, that was a non-exhaustive list.

My exhaustive list. Yoga pants, cleavage, and potentially “other clothing” (which I left to prudential judgment). Refer to my above post.

Second, nudity is not intrinsically evil, it requires a proportionate reason. For example, we do not need to remove art with nudity. A doctor can look at a patient nude (but even he should not if it puts himself into proximate danger of mortal sin). And in the same way, breastfeeding has a proportionate reason.

Plus,
(1) it is a somewhat rare occurrence to see a woman breastfeeding (in comparison to women in yoga pants which are everywhere)
(2) in these circumstances men only see the back of a babies head, with yoga pants and cleavage you see much more
(3) men should practice custody of their eyes regardless of what causes them to lust (even if it doesn’t cause the majority of men to lust). But modesty standards are based on what applies
to the specific society in general, not to a specific individual man.
(4) women should dress modestly, unless there is a proportionate reason justifying the exposure. You cannot walk around naked, but you can be naked for a medical exam. You can be naked in a locker room, but not in public. Similarly, no yoga pants in public.

Most important:
I disagree profoundly that it is “cultural conditioning” that is the primary factor putting “lustful suggestions” into men’s minds. It is biology, the same nature and biology that makes men sexually attracted to women.

(1) Studies have shown that there are universal beauty standards that apply cross culturally (facial symmetry, etc). This proves that male attraction has a biological component
(2) Homosexual men have different sizes of different brain regions compared to heterosexual men. And a study even was able to predict sexual orientation based on facial features better than one would expect by random chance
(2) Studies that have looked at arousal patterns in men. I fully realize that showing men erotic images is highly immoral, but I have to resort to these studies to demonstrate my point. The study showed that how men responded to visual stimuli was entirely predictable: their eyes were laser focused on just a few regions of women’s bodies (the regions that should not be displayed in public, regardless of culture, without a serious reason)
(3) Pornographic content is made for men. It rarely shows the whole person, but is laser focused on genital regions (because men are hardwired to lustful suggestions when seeing these regions of the body)
(4) nature alone can put so many suggestions into the typical man aged 18-24’s brain, that, even if he was only culpable of a small percentage of those thoughts, from suggestions/ nature alone, many men can potentially commit so many mortal sins that they cannot count the number that they committed the next time that they go to confession!
 
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