Are formfitting shirts appropriate?

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My posts are getting flagged and I don’t know why.

Second point: we do not use native tribes standards of modesty, we use Catholic standards of modesty: what will lead to lustful suggestions popping unwanted into men’s minds.

I was also asked: what about Native Catholic cultures. The answer is that modesty applies to them too, but obviously the precise modesty standards beyond no yoga pants and no cleavage, the two regions of the body men are hardwired to get lustful suggestions from, is culturally dependent. But yes, Catholic standards apply even to the native people.
 
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edwest211 said:
The old Old Testament nonsense again. Fiction is not to be compared to Scripture which was written for our benefit, including the disturbing parts.
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Why was this post flagged? I see nothing inappropriate or offensive in it.
 
As is usually the case with modesty threads, we are in the realm of the ridiculous.
 
If you are never tempted you can not sin
So it is a woman’s job to keep men from sinning? But I am not every man’s parent. It is an adult male’s job to learn to fight temptation.
I do my part with what I think is modest but the responsibility is his not mine.
 
As a man I find yoga pants more distracting than cleavage… generally by a long shot. But I don’t presume to speak for all men.
 
HopkinsReb said:
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on_the_hill:
With my long legs, my wife says I look like “Gru,” if I’m not careful.
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Does she say you sound like him?
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Hmm…that’s an idea. I could try.
 
twf said:
But I don’t presume to speak for all men.
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It’s o.k. I wouldn’t be offended.
As I posted in another one of these threads, I once was sure I was in love with a dental hygienist and all I could see of her face were her eyes because the rest was covered by a mask.
 
The Council of Trent Catechism (which yes, still contains very prudent advice):

Means of practicing purity

Avoidance Of Idleness
We now come to the remedies which consist in action. The first is studiously to avoid idleness; for, according to Ezechiel, it was by yielding to the enervating influence of idleness that the Sodomites plunged into the most shameful crime of criminal lust.

Temperance
In the next place, intemperance is carefully to be avoided. I fed them to the full, says the Prophet, and they committed adultery. An overloaded stomach begets impurity. This our Lord intimates in these words: Take heed to yourselves, lest perhaps your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness. Be not drunk with wine, says the Apostle, wherein is luxury.

Custody Of The Eyes
But the eyes, in particular, are the inlets to criminal passion, and to this refer these words of our Lord: If thine eye scandalise thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee. The Prophets, also, frequently speak to the same effect. I made a covenant with mine eyes, says Job, that I would not so much as think upon a virgin. Finally, there are on record innumerable examples of the evils which have their origin in the indulgence of the eyes. It was thus that David sinned, thus that the king of Sichem fell, and thus also that the elders sinned who calumniated Susanna.

Avoidance Of Immodest Dress
Too much display in dress, which especially attracts the eye, is but too frequently an occasion of sin. Hence the admonition of Ecclesiasticus: Turn away thy face from a woman dressed up. As women are given to excessive fondness for dress, it will not be unseasonable in the pastor to give some attention to the subject, and sometimes to admonish and reprove them in the impressive words of the Apostle Peter: Whose adorning let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel. St. Paul likewise says: Not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire. Many women adorned with gold and precious stones, have lost the only true ornament of their soul and body.
 
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Well they see this each and every day multiple times and it is what their profession is dependent upon so I would definitely say to them it’s a job and they all get to be very much the same. Just as with nurses. It’s just another patient who needs care.
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Probably true in the vast majority of cases. There are aberrations one reads about and hears about and maybe even is familiar with.
 
alphonsus1 said:
The Council of Trent Catechism (which yes, still contains very prudent advice):

Means of practicing purity
Avoidance Of Idleness
We now come to the remedies which consist in action. The first is studiously to avoid idleness; for, according to Ezechiel, it was by yielding to the enervating influence of idleness that the Sodomites plunged into the most shameful crime of criminal lust.
Temperance
In the next place, intemperance is carefully to be avoided. I fed them to the full, says the Prophet, and they committed adultery. An overloaded stomach begets impurity. This our Lord intimates in these words: Take heed to yourselves, lest perhaps your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness. Be not drunk with wine, says the Apostle, wherein is luxury.
Custody Of The Eyes
But the eyes, in particular, are the inlets to criminal passion, and to this refer these words of our Lord: If thine eye scandalise thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee. The Prophets, also, frequently speak to the same effect. I made a covenant with mine eyes, says Job, that I would not so much as think upon a virgin. Finally, there are on record innumerable examples of the evils which have their origin in the indulgence of the eyes. It was thus that David sinned, thus that the king of Sichem fell, and thus also that the elders sinned who calumniated Susanna.
Avoidance Of Immodest Dress
Too much display in dress, which especially attracts the eye, is but too frequently an occasion of sin. Hence the admonition of Ecclesiasticus: Turn away thy face from a woman dressed up. As women are given to excessive fondness for dress, it will not be unseasonable in the pastor to give some attention to the subject, and sometimes to admonish and reprove them in the impressive words of the Apostle Peter: Whose adorning let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel. St. Paul likewise says: Not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire. Many women adorned with gold and precious stones, have lost the only true ornament of their soul and body.
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Huh. No mention of yoga pants or cleavage there. Seems like that’s your interpretation, not the official teaching of the Church.
 
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alphonsus1 said:
Whose adorning let it not be the outward plaiting of the hair, or the wearing of gold, or the putting on of apparel. St. Paul likewise says: Not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire. Many women adorned with gold and precious stones, have lost the only true ornament of their soul and body.
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No, the Catechism of the Council of Trent is WAY more conservative than my suggestions. Saying to “look away from a women dressed up.”

I’m just saying to cover up the genital regions when in public (without a serious reason), or to not allow genital regions to be seen in detail like you can see with yoga pants. You cannot get anymore lenient than that, without throwing out modesty altogether.
 
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alphonsus1 said:
the two regions of the body men are hardwired to get lustful suggestions from
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Nope. I can almost buy one of them, but if both of the two you listed were hardwired, then there would be no cultures anywhere in which women routinely walk around with no upper body covering. It is entirely cultural.
 
I never claimed that immodest cultures do not exist. Not all cultures care about lustful thoughts! There are two regions that have the potential, regardless of culture, to put lustful suggestions into vast majority of young men’s brains. Take our secular culture for example. Even in secular society, yoga pants lead to lustful suggestions. Our culture just glorifies this and doesn’t think there is anything wrong with thoughts (they even accept one night stands, etc).

Therefore, in all cultures: covering up the genital regions is a bare minimum to modesty!
 
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That’s fair. Please substitute “to a large extent” for “entirely”…
 
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LumineDiei said:
If this was my first visit to the forum and I happened upon this thread and read some of these posts, I would be very wary of Catholic men, since the comments being made on here strongly imply all men are wired to think like that and even Catholic guys cannot help themselves and wish to throw the blame on women.
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If you scroll all the way to the top, you’ll see that the original poster is 17 years old. I hope this thread isn’t scaring her away from one day finding a decent Catholic guy! I promise they exist.
 
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