Are genetic abnormalities the result of sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter SpeakInSilence
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SpeakInSilence

Guest
I was having a discussion with my friend, and he told me he believed the reasons why people die and there are genetic abnormalities is because of original sin. That Adam and Eve were perfect people, and because of sin the world was made imperfect, and all hell broke lose so to speak.

He told me that genetic abnormalities isn’t sinful, but it’s because of sin. I disagree with him.

I told him if they were created that way by God, and their form is the result of sin, then God had caused the sin.

Is it wrong for me to believe genetic abnormalities are not because of sin? I have been many children with down syndrome that display beautiful souls (though they aren’t free from committing sin themselves) and I have a hard time believing it’s the result of sin.

What’s the catholic teaching on this? Bible verses, or theological answers would help. Thank you.
 
Not your sin per se, but I think all 'genetic defects" come from original sin. The bloodline also became less pure and man started to breakdown with weaknesses.

Don’t blame yourself, you are who you are. Even if some genetic issues are in your family there is nothing you can do about it. Sin has caused all of us to break down.
 
That’s like the comment someone made to my sister who has five healthy children and tow adopted children. “It is because you have sinned”. The two adopted children are 'handicapped, one severely and one with Downs Syndrome. My sister just smiled, didn’t say she isn’t the natural mother of her handicapped children. Let the judgmental man think what he wished. The Down Syndrome adopted son is the kindness, loveliest young man, and if prayer is needed, his heart is a perfect and willing channel of prayer.

There are probably many reasons why genetics have in some cases been compromised. It is even possible that the tendency in many centuries for communities to remain stationary, with little travel, and thus intermarriage, may have affected genetics. It can also be that all the pollutants in food, drink, and atmosphere have affected genetics, as have excessive stress which can be passed on in the genes.

My maternal ancestry, for instance, was confine to a small British isle, which could have resulted in more intermarriage…a clue that seemed evident when one of my brothers showed signs of hemophilia for a period of his early life, and my family tend to succumb to autoimmune illnesses.

It is also the case that modern medicine assists even the weakest amongst us to survive and pass on our genes, whereas in ages past we would have died.

I discovered my auto-immune illnesses, and the cause for various issues, after I was married and had children. I do not for one instant believe that my parents sinned, good, wonderful human beings and Catholics. Some of my family members have immune systems that make unwise decisions…and possibly it is that our maternal ancestors didn’t travel enough to the mainland to find their spouses…but it is certainly judgmental of any of us to accuse anyone of sin, or their parents of sin, because their child has a crooked nose, or is “too short”, or any more serious genetic 'imperfection. 🙂

nature.com/scitable/topicpage/dna-replication-and-causes-of-mutation-409

genetics.org/content/78/1/35.full.pdf
ts-si.org/genetics-&-genome/30426-evolution-of-new-traits-from-dormant-genetic-imperfections
 
"1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." John 9
 
Trishie said:
"1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." John 9
Click to expand...
Indeed Trishie 🙂

I was brought up with the attitude that to have a disabled person in the family is a special ‘gift’ from God, an enormous blessing. That God would only choose a special family to raise a child with (as the OP descirbes it)with abnormalities.

Having grown up with my wonderful yet severely physically and learning disabled sister two years younger than me…I see the gift she is to our family.

I always used to say that Mary (my sister) makes me who I am.For without her example of innocent pure unconditional love in our lives…I don’t know if we in our family would be who we are.We in our family have all been touched by Mary’s character she is integral to our family and we all love her so very much.

My first son died of spina bifida…had he lived my life would have been very different…I love and miss him dearly.

Trishie…you and your whole family are wonderful and a living example of true Christianity and Christ’s love. Your sister is very special and thankyou for sharing with us all.

I think your quotes bear out the things I was raised as a child to believe…

.[Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." John 9 ]
 
Trishie said:
That’s like the comment someone made to my sister who has five healthy children and tow adopted children. “It is because you have sinned”. The two adopted children are 'handicapped, one severely and one with Downs Syndrome. My sister just smiled, didn’t say she isn’t the natural mother of her handicapped children. Let the judgmental man think what he wished. The Down Syndrome adopted son is the kindness, loveliest young man, and if prayer is needed, his heart is a perfect and willing channel of prayer.

There are probably many reasons why genetics have in some cases been compromised. It is even possible that the tendency in many centuries for communities to remain stationary, with little travel, and thus intermarriage, may have affected genetics. It can also be that all the pollutants in food, drink, and atmosphere have affected genetics, as have excessive stress which can be passed on in the genes.

My maternal ancestry, for instance, was confine to a small British isle, which could have resulted in more intermarriage…a clue that seemed evident when one of my brothers showed signs of hemophilia for a period of his early life, and my family tend to succumb to autoimmune illnesses.

It is also the case that modern medicine assists even the weakest amongst us to survive and pass on our genes, whereas in ages past we would have died.

I discovered my auto-immune illnesses, and the cause for various issues, after I was married and had children. I do not for one instant believe that my parents sinned, good, wonderful human beings and Catholics. Some of my family members have immune systems that make unwise decisions…and possibly it is that our maternal ancestors didn’t travel enough to the mainland to find their spouses…but it is certainly judgmental of any of us to accuse anyone of sin, or their parents of sin, because their child has a crooked nose, or is “too short”, or any more serious genetic 'imperfection. 🙂

nature.com/scitable/topicpage/dna-replication-and-causes-of-mutation-409

genetics.org/content/78/1/35.full.pdf
ts-si.org/genetics-&-genome/30426-evolution-of-new-traits-from-dormant-genetic-imperfections
Click to expand...
Very well stated. And Judaism doesn’t believe this either: the much-quoted “The sins of the fathers” biblical verses are often misinterpreted.
 
The reason there is suffering, pain, and death on earth is because of original sin, yes.

That also includes abnormalities since that falls under suffering. What you’re misunderstanding is that God made them that way…He didn’t, He just ALLOWED them to be made that way.
 
They are the result of Original sin. If someone is born that way, it isn’t God’s fault. We tend to blame him for everything we do. Its our fault. Diseases are in fact a consequence of original sin. God didn’t create Adam or Eve with Genes that have cancer or diabetes. Nature itself was perverted due to the original sin. Earthquakes, Storms etc.

I simply can’t picture Adam and Eve (before their fall) dying due to a hurricane or a cancer. There was no death. Roses didn’t have thorns, there was no need to. Nature was different, we changed it. Its man’s fault. But things won’t stay that way, there will be a second coming.
 
edwest2 said:
Yes. They are the result of Original Sin.

Matthew 19:12, where Jesus tells us.

bible.cc/matthew/19-12.htm

Peace,
Ed
Click to expand...
But he never said it was because of original sin. He just said that’s the way it is.

What about

"1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”

3“Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life." John 9

If down syndrome is the cause of a sinful world, then what does that say at the time of a new earth? Will those people with down syndrome be what we consider… normal?

I’m not sure how to think about this.

I’m not thoroughly convinced either that Adam and Eve sinning what brought upon death into the world in a physical sense, but purely in a spiritual sense.

Not to derail this conversation, but was it being cut from the tree of life the reason for physical death? Not the sin?

I can easily accept original sin for most reasons, but I don’t know.
 
CrimsonThorn said:
The reason there is suffering, pain, and death on earth is because of original sin, yes.

That also includes abnormalities since that falls under suffering. What you’re misunderstanding is that God made them that way…He didn’t, He just ALLOWED them to be made that way.
Click to expand...
Are you saying that God didn’t make and design everyone of us?
 
SpeakInSilence said:
Are you saying that God didn’t make and design everyone of us?
Click to expand...
God does make and design every one of us, though He allows (not creates) disease, abnormalities, deformities, etc. to occur - but He does not inflict or create these things for any particular person(s). He didn’t even inflict that punishment and suffering on Job, He allowed it to happen though.

As you know, God does not intervene in the world and prevent suffering. We humans through our sin created suffering. Had Adam and Eve not sinned, we would know no suffering, impurity, imperfection, genetic abnormalities. These things do not exist in a perfect place like Heaven. But Earth is not Heaven and it is not perfect.
 
SpeakInSilence said:
Are you saying that God didn’t make and design everyone of us?
Click to expand...
My understanding - God made each of us, but we are damaged as a result of original sin. The damage is not directly willed by God in and of itself, but is allowed as consequence of such sin. I think it’s crucial not to identify genetic disorders as an integral part of the person’s identity though, but rather as an affliction being suffered by the person (even if the disorder determines a large part of the day to day aspects of how they live their life). That is, as Cardinal Dolan recently-ish had brought to his attention, there are no down syndrome people, but rather people with down syndrome.

I think this distinction is crucial because it allows us to see such afflictions as burdens that some people must bear, but that in bearing them they may (and very often do) bring blessings into the lives of their families and loved ones. But the things are burdens nonetheless.

That is, such things are in fact afflictions, and if we were to come up with safe ethical treatments that would cure them, it would be good to cure them and prevent anyone else suffering from them. Having such an affliction is having a disorder, and it would be best if people didn’t have disorders. However, given that people do have them, much good can be brought forth from them in the same way that God can bring forth good from all bad things (where the bad thing is the having of the affliction, not the person with it obviously).

So in short - yes, all afflictions and suffering is a result of original sin however much good happens as a result of these afflictions because God brings good from bad.

I think I’ve used this example a lot recently, but I think I’ll do it again - it’s rather like the Crucifixion of Christ. This was undoubtedly a bad thing. We should not have murdered the Son of God. But we did. And out of it God brought our salvation.

Likewise in a perfect world without original sin, no one would have such disabilities. But we messed up and are in an imperfect world. So there are such disabilities. And God, without diminishing the fact that they are disabilities and bad things in and of themselves, uses them to bring untold blessings to the families of wonderful people who happen to have Down Syndrome.
 
SpeakInSilence said:
Are you saying that God didn’t make and design everyone of us?
Click to expand...
God designed how each of us is born. But the process is otherwise natural. God does not pull down every object we throw in the air - gravity does. God doesn’t close every wound - the natural elements in the blood do.

And, by the way, I think it’s not entirely correct to say that genetic imperfections are the result of sin. This is the view that the teachers of the law had at the time of Christ, and he was quick in telling them that that was not the case:
“Rabbi,” his disciples asked him, “why was this man born blind? Was it because of his own sins or his parents’ sins?” “Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.”
Click to expand...
The soul is all that matters - that, indeed, God designs personally, in His image and likeness. “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing”.
 
R_C said:
And, by the way, I think it’s not entirely correct to say that genetic imperfections are the result of sin. This is the view that the teachers of the law had at the time of Christ, and he was quick in telling them that that was not the case
Click to expand...
It’s not correct in the sense that it is a direct punishment, it comes from the fact that the world is imperfect. The world is imperfect because of sin.
 
CrimsonThorn said:
It’s not correct in the sense that it is a direct punishment, it comes from the fact that the world is imperfect. The world is imperfect because of sin.
Click to expand...
Yes, but…“this teaching is hard…who can hear it?” Simpler to say, indeed, that it happens because perfection is not of this world.
 
R_C said:
The soul is all that matters - that, indeed, God designs personally, in His image and likeness. “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing”.
Click to expand...
I would be wary of taking this idea too far. We are in fact spirit-animal combinations, not spirits that happen to currently be in bodies. But the basic idea - that God designs us completely on the fundamental level, who we are in the deepest truest sense, and that genetic disorders are not part of this identity given us by God but rather afflictions that we suffer as a result of the imperfect world we are in - is sound.

I think this distinction may help address the problem the OP has with the statement “genetic disorders are a result of original sin” somewhat, so I’m gonna go ahead and shamelessly toot my own horn and mention that I talked about that briefly in my last post, in case said post got missed when the page turned over.
 
In thinking of a response to this question, I was reminded of Romans 8:20-27:

It was not for any fault on the part of creation that it was made unable to attain its purpose, it was made so by God; but ceation still retains the hope of being freed, like us, from its slavery to decadence, to enjoy the same freedom and glory as the children of God. From the beginning till now the entire creation, as we know, has been groaning in one great act of giving birth; and not only creation, but all of us who possess the first-fruits of the Spirit, we too groan inwardly as we wait for our bodies to be set free. For we must be content to hope that we shall be saved - our salvation is not in sight, we should not have to be hoping for it if it were - but, as I say, we must hope to be saved since we are not saved yet - it is something we must wait for with patience.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top