Are guitars, rock bands, lifeteen, dancing, etc. all allowed?

[thunderballs75]

I am wondering…I always see these rock bands playing at the Novus Ordo Masses. I’ve even seen one of the lifeteen/edge Masses. Then there’s the dancing, the moving of the tabernacle, the clapping, etc. So, is this all perfectly in accord with the GIRM? It is, isn’t it? Nobody can do anything, because according to the officials there’s nothing wrong with it, right? Thanks.

 

[buffalo]

No.

 

[michaeldaniels]

To me…all of those things are an abomination and should be eliminated immediately…it takes the Mass and shifts the focus from God to man and glorifying man instead of God…Where is the solemness?

 

[Shin]

If you were before Christ being crucified on Calvary, truly there witnessing it, would you start up a rock band and clap and dance?

What are you doing?

 

[puzzleannie]

I am wondering…I always see these rock bands playing at the Novus Ordo Masses. I’ve even seen one of the lifeteen/edge Masses. Then there’s the dancing, the moving of the tabernacle, the clapping, etc. So, is this all perfectly in accord with the GIRM? It is, isn’t it? Nobody can do anything, because according to the officials there’s nothing wrong with it, right? Thanks.

since this is the only Mass, except for one or two times I made it to the TLM in the last 40 years, I have to say my experience is otherwise, I can count on the fingers of one hand the times I have heard what I would describe as a rock band at Mass.

guitars does not equal rock band, nor does it equal “folk music”. It is one of several instruments permissible for liturgical music. as long as the music and lyrics are approved for Mass and performed in such a way as to enhance rather than detract from the liturgy, they are okay. maybe not my personal preference, but not an abuse, not an aberration. No clapping should not ordinarily be involved. we should not clap after a soloist or choir renders a hymn after communion to organ accompaniment at the TLM, either.

Lifeteen if done in accordance with the rubrics is also legitimate. Like any other Mass, NO, EF, OF, traditional or whatever, if it does not follow the norms than yes, there can be problems. guitar does not equal lifeteen. lifeteen does not equal rock music. contemporary Christian music does not equal clapping, stamping, drums, bad behavior, or dancing. No liturgical dance has no place in the Mass of the Latin rite. Lifeteen does not incorporate it in their Mass. Those that are doing it have made their own additions to the LT program.

Moving the tabernacle has nothing whatever to do with any of the above, but is a local decision made by a local pastor based on the needs of his parish. Again, as long as the norms are followed, he is not guilty of any abuse.

what “officials” are you speaking of? the “official” is the pastor in the parish and bishop in the diocese. address your concerns to him. No, in this culture there is no place for liturgical dance. We are not speaking of other cultures or other rites in this instance.

 

[LoveJesus]

Dancing at Mass is not a sin. There are quite a few parts of the world where people dance to the music during Mass. In non-Western cultures (especially African) it’s normal. A solemn demeanor does not equal reverence. People can be danging for joy because they are happy to commune with Jesus.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Solemnity departed from us in the summer of 1967 when most parishes began transitioning from the TLM to the NO. Solemnity was gone by 1969 when my classmates whipped out their guitars and we sang Sons of God Hear His Holy Word, Sounds of Silence, Bridge over Troubled Waters, and They’ll Know We are Christians by our Love for the 100th and last graduation Mass for my Catholic boys high school.

My classmates are still at it (at alumni association Masses, for example) even though we had a perfectly good schola in 1967 with perfectly good voices (including my own) who were quite capable of singing Latin in chant or in sacred motets.

But, of course, we didn’t understand Latin; couldn’t sing chant if our lives depended upon it (nobody understood chant); ripped out the historic organs in our churches and replaced them with guitars, drums, keyboards, etc. all because we had to make Mass more “relevant” to my generation.

There was no survey taken in 1967 about our feelings. I, for one, was perfectly happy with the Latin. I hated the guitars and the sappy Muppet music then and I hate them now and everything which has followed since (e.g. liturgical dancers and, yes, I have had the extreme misfortune of having seen them). I just can’t say it because it is not liturgically correct. Whoops! I shouldn’t have said anything. Can’t we all just sing Kumbaya?

,

 

[Brenda_V]

A LIfeteen Mass that follows the Lifeteen rules would not have what you describe. Guitars and drums maybe but not the moving of the tabernacle or dancing.

A Lifeteen Dance in the Parish Hall is a different matter entirely, it would be a social event and not part of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass!

Brenda V.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Dancing at Mass is not a sin. There are quite a few parts of the world where people dance to the music during Mass. In non-Western cultures (especially African) it’s normal. A solemn demeanor does not equal reverence. People can be danging for joy because they are happy to commune with Jesus.

We are not African, Polynesian, Australian, etc. The Irish did not step dance at Mass. The English did not have Morris Dances. The French did not minuet, etc., etc., etc. Western Europeans and their descendants have NO tradition of dancing at Mass in 2000 years.

Love Jesus, here is something quite close to my heart. I have heard Irish music used in a Mass setting even though we Irish don’t sing because we had to attend Mass out amongst the hedge rows and couldn’t sing lest we be discovered. But I am also Cajun - Acadian. Cajun Music belongs in the dance halls and to my knowledge a Missa Chank-a-Chank has not been composed.

I fully embrace my western culture. We didn’t dance. We composed. We have 1500 years of western music. Where did that 1500 years go in the last 45 years?

 

[Shin]

A mass that is made relevant to a particular generation, is irrelevant to all the rest.

Rather we must become relevant to the mass!

 

[kage_ar]

Sometimes I wonder if the people who complain about “rock bands” at such and thus mass have ever actually SEEN a rock band

 

[thunderballs75]

Sometimes I wonder if the people who complain about “rock bands” at such and thus mass have ever actually SEEN a rock band

LOL! Trust me dude, if only you had seen me back in my prime…I still love to pop in a Megadeth or Slayer album every once in a while.

But anyways, so I was right? There is nothing actually wrong with these practices. As somebody else pointed out, the officials are the local pastors and if they have no problem with it, I have no right to have a problem with it either. Correct? Also, when I talk about dancing, they do it in the church, but technically before Mass. So then it is okay, yes?

 

[Brenda_V]

LOL! Trust me dude, if only you had seen me back in my prime…I still love to pop in a Megadeth or Slayer album every once in a while.

But anyways, so I was right? There is nothing actually wrong with these practices. As somebody else pointed out, the officials are the local pastors and if they have no problem with it, I have no right to have a problem with it either. Correct? Also, when I talk about dancing, they do it in the church, but technically before Mass. So then it is okay, yes?

No, I believe brotherhrolf addressed this. Here in the US (and Europe for that matter) we do not dance before Mass or after Mass in the church. It is not part of our specific culture hence we do not do it. Now if you went to Africa and attended Mass there, you very well may see dancing as part of the Mass but that is part of their culture!

Brenda V.

 

[Shin]

The music at mass is to be sacred music, not profane music. For music to be sacred it is not only the words, but the instruments and their manner of being played that must be different from the worldly manner of playing.

The music’s purpose is to lift up the mind to God, not bring it down below, while exciting the passions.

I do not have the regulations on hand on what music may or may not be allowed into the mass, and what instruments, etc. but the pastoral guidance will be along these lines. Perhaps someone else does, there’ve been some updates relatively recently.

The model for sacred music is the Gregorian Chant, this has been reiterated and not changed.

The founder of Life Teen is rather notorious, and Life Teen is notorious for its liturgical abuses in general. I generally wouldn’t recommend masses celebrated by Life Teen when there was an alternative mass available.

If a specific behavior isn’t found in the GIRM, it isn’t allowed. You abide by the rules you don’t fill in the blanks because they aren’t blanks for filling in.

 

[thunderballs75]

The music at mass is to be sacred music, not profane music. For music to be sacred it is not only the words, but the instruments and their manner of being played that must be different from the worldly manner of playing.

The music’s purpose is to lift up the mind to God, not bring it down below, while exciting the passions.

I do not have the regulations on hand on what music may or may not be allowed into the mass, and what instruments, etc. but the pastoral guidance will be along these lines. Perhaps someone else does, there’ve been some updates relatively recently.

The model for sacred music is the Gregorian Chant, this has been reiterated and not changed.

The founder of Life Teen is rather notorious, and Life Teen is notorious for its liturgical abuses in general. I generally wouldn’t recommend masses celebrated by Life Teen when there was an alternative mass available.

If a specific behavior isn’t found in the GIRM, it isn’t allowed. You abide by the rules you don’t fill in the blanks because they aren’t blanks for filling in.

Apparently for some people the use of guitars and drums and stuff is sacred enough and does raise them up to God. Ironically enough, I went to a Mass with my grandmother, and the drums and guitar really seem to suit her. Gregorian Chant is not found anywhere. It has completely lost its place as the standard (this has happened in Church history before). But this is allowed, and in many places encouraged. So how can we complain?

Of course, the LifeTeen Masses were having some problems with following correct liturgical norms, however these have been cleared up. They’ve also tried to distance themselves from their excommunicated sexual abuser founder.

 

[aball1035]

In my personal opinion, the celebration of the mass is a most holy and solemn event, so it isn’t right to bring up emotions fit for another place at mass

 

[buffalo]

Dancing at Mass is not a sin. There are quite a few parts of the world where people dance to the music during Mass. In non-Western cultures (especially African) it’s normal. A solemn demeanor does not equal reverence. People can be danging for joy because they are happy to commune with Jesus.

THE SPIRIT OF THE LITURGY, by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

…Dancing is not a form of expression for the Christian liturgy. In about the third century, there was an attempt in certain Gnostic-Docetic circles to introduce it into the liturgy. For these people, the Crucifixion was only an appearance. . . . Dancing could take the place of the liturgy of the Cross, because, after all, the Cross was only an appearance. The cultic dances of the different religions have different purposes - incantation, imitative magic, mystical ecstasy - none of which is compatible with the essential purpose of the liturgy as the “reasonable sacrifice”. It is totally absurd to try to make the liturgy “attractive” by introducing dancing pantomimes (wherever possible performed by professional dance troupes), which frequently (and rightly, from the professionals’ point of view) end with applause. Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.

 

[Shin]

I’ll add a little more Cardinal Ratzinger…

In many forms of religion, music is associated with frenzy and ecstasy. The free expansion of human existence, toward which man’s own hunger for the Infinite is directed, is supposed to be achieved through sacred delirium induced by frenzied instrumental rhythms. Such music lowers the barriers of individuality and personality, and in it man liberates himself from the burden of consciousness. Music becomes ecstasy, liberation from the ego, amalgamation with the universe. Today we experience the secularized variation of this type in rock and pop music, whose festivals are an anti-cult with the same tendency: desire for destruction, repealing the limitations of the everyday, and the illusion of salvation in liberation from the ego, in the wild ecstasy of a tumultuous crowd. These are measures which involve a form of release related to that achieved through drugs. It is the complete antithesis of Christian faith in the Redemption.

In a way which we could not imagine thirty years ago, music has become the decisive vehicle of a counter-religion and thus calls for a parting of the ways. Since rock music seeks release through liberation from the personality and its responsibility, it can be on the one hand precisely classified among the anarchic ideas of freedom which today predominate more openly in the West than in the East. But that is precisely why rock music is so completely antithetical to the Christian concept of redemption and freedom, indeed its exact opposite. Hence, music of this type must be excluded from the Church on principle, and not merely for aesthetic reasons, or because of restorative crankiness or historical inflexibility.

 

[DorianGregorian]

Absolutely not.

 

[LoveJesus]

Are you kidding me? You’re telling me that it’s a sin for someone who’s really into the Mass to dance to the music…swinging the body from side to side to the music…dancing for joy? Just because it’s not the norm in the West doesn’t mean that it is wrong for everyone else in the world. The Catholic Church is not only made up if Churches from the West, you know. There are many different cultural influences in the Church in different parts of the world. Singing and dancing are very important aspects of African culture…Westerners will view it as “playing around” or “not being serious” but that’s not the case… There’s even lots of dancing at African funerals. Does that mean that the deceased are not being respected because there’s dancing at his/her funeral? No. It’s a very integral part of the culture. That is what I was trying to express.