Are Jewish People Still Awaiting the Messiah?

[qui_est_ce]

We are studying the gospel of Matthew in our Bible study. In several verses, the prophet Elija is mentioned. Some people thought John the Baptist was Elija. Some thought Jesus was Elija. Elija appeared at the Transfiguration.

Malachi 3:23
“Lo, I will send you Elijah, the prophet, Before the day of the LORD comes”

Footnote to above
" [23] (23)Elijah: described in 2 Kings 2:11 as taken heavenward in a fiery chariot. Here his return to earth seems to be foretold. Jewish tradition has interpreted this literally; Christ declared it to be fulfilled in the coming of John the Baptizer (Matthew 17:10-13)."

Matthew 17:11-13
"He said in reply, 11 “Elijah will indeed come and restore all things;
12
but I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him but did to him whatever they pleased. So also will the Son of Man suffer at their hands.”
13 Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist. "

The questions came up:

1. Are the Jews still awaiting the Messiah?
2. Do they still think Elija will come first?
3. How will they know the Messiah?

I only have one Jewish friend, and he is an atheist, so I can’t ask him!

I know there may be different thoughts because there are different branches of Judaism: Reformed, Conservative, Orthodox, etc. which may result in different interpretations, so I would appreciate if you identified your affiliation.

Thanks for helping me out.

 

[Kaninchen]

You may find the following Messiah links helpful:

chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/Belief-in-Moshiach.htm

jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/messiah.html

 

[ckempston]

You may find the following Messiah links helpful:

chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/Belief-in-Moshiach.htm

jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/messiah.html

Forgive me if this is not a respectful thing to ask. If it is offensive, it is only out of ignorance, but…Can today’s Jews confirm that any descendents of King David exist today? How far back can today’s Jews actually trace their lineage? If the Messiah must be a descendent of David, it seems like this would have to be proven somehow.

 

[Kaninchen]

Forgive me if this is not a respectful thing to ask. If it is offensive, it is only out of ignorance, but…Can today’s Jews confirm that any descendents of King David exist today? How far back can today’s Jews actually trace their lineage? If the Messiah must be a descendent of David, it seems like this would have to be proven somehow.

If, all of a sudden, world peace breaks out, utopia arrives and I’m suddenly transported to Israel, I’ll take his word for it.

 

[ckempston]

If, all of a sudden, world peace breaks out, utopia arrives and I’m suddenly transported to Israel, I’ll take his word for it.

Ha ha ha - GOOD POINT.

 

[qui_est_ce]

You may find the following Messiah links helpful:

chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/108400/jewish/Belief-in-Moshiach.htm

jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/messiah.html

Thanks for the links. That answered a lot of questions. Now I have a few more.

The links provided say:

1. The Kingdom will be established on Earth with Isreal ruling the world with peace and justice.
2. The dead will be raised
3. Everyone will enjoy a high standard of living and there will be sufficient food and material goods to satisfy the world

Is immortality IN this world then? Eternity being in the material world. That is, eating, working, learning, studying?

Will everyone be Jewish, believing in the Messiah? Is there Hell?

 

[Kaninchen]

1. The Kingdom will be established on Earth with Isreal ruling the world with peace and justice.

Israel ruling the world?

1. The dead will be raised
2. Everyone will enjoy a high standard of living and there will be sufficient food and material goods to satisfy the world

Is immortality IN this world then? Eternity being in the material world. That is, eating, working, learning, studying?

Will everyone be Jewish, believing in the Messiah? Is there Hell?

We’re very, very deeply into the world of “two Jews - three opinions” here!

Might I suggest that you use the search function on Judaism 101 for example?

Here’s the link for the ‘afterlife’ and ‘the World To Come’:

jewfaq.org/olamhaba.htm

 

[qui_est_ce]

Israel ruling the world?

Before the time of the moshiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)

The moshiach will bring about the political and spiritual redemption of the Jewish people by bringing us back to Israel and restoring Jerusalem (Isaiah 11:11-12; Jeremiah 23:8; 30:3; Hosea 3:4-5). **He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, **both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1). He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18). He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15). (From the link you provided):

jewfaq.org/moshiach.htm

We’re very, very deeply into the world of “two Jews - three opinions” here!

Yes, like some Christians who believe in Rapture

 

[Kaninchen]

Yes, like some Christians who believe in Rapture

I really don’t want to argue the subject, I’m just a poster here who happens to be Jewish rather than a ‘Jewish poster’, if you get what I mean.

 

[Sepharad]

I can tell you what Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto (the Ramchal, a medieval Italian Jewish kabbalist) said:

He says, in Derech Hashem (The Way of God), that in the world to come, everyone will worship the God of Israel, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. This seems borne out in Isaiah 56, where we read, “My House shall be called a House of Prayer for ALL people”.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I can tell you what Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto (the Ramchal, a medieval Italian Jewish kabbalist) said:

He says, in Derech Hashem (The Way of God), that in the world to come, everyone will worship the God of Israel, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. This seems borne out in Isaiah 56, where we read, “My House shall be called a House of Prayer for ALL people”.

Oh my. you just described the Catholic Church. which is ruled by Jesus. where everyone worships God. Jews and gentiles.

Here is what the Angel told Mary. Hail Mary, the Lord is with thee. you will bare a Son and He will be called Emmanuel ( God is with us.)

is it possible for God to come to earth and walk among us?

Romans 13:1-2,
**“Let everyone be subject to the higher authorities, for there exists no authority except from GOD, AND THOSE WHO EXIST HAVE BEEN APPOINTED BY GOD (6). Therefore, he who resists the AUTHORITY resists the ordinance of GOD; and THEY THAT RESIST BRING ON THEMSELVES CONDEMNATION.” **

 

[angelusm]

Thanks for the links. That answered a lot of questions. Now I have a few more.

The links provided say:

1. The Kingdom will be established on Earth with Isreal ruling the world with peace and justice.
2. The dead will be raised
3. Everyone will enjoy a high standard of living and there will be sufficient food and material goods to satisfy the world

Is immortality IN this world then? Eternity being in the material world. That is, eating, working, learning, studying?

Will everyone be Jewish, believing in the Messiah? Is there Hell?

In Jewish beliefs, this world and eternal life are mixed up and that’s obviously a nonsense. It’s unbelievable they can’t expain such impartant issues like judgement, heaven, hell, eternal life… I think for them a new life is a kind of a continuation of this life, that’s why they love money so much, they want to be successful now so they could be successful in the future life - probably also on earth… It’s confusing and doesn’t make much sense. I think they use their religion to justify and support their struggle for money and power.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Yes, I really want to stick to learning more about Jewish beliefs. Judaism is our heritage. The reason I am using CAF Forum is that I have “met” some some Jewish women here who appear to be genuine Orthodox Jews. I didn’t want to Google because I’m not sure how legitimate some sites are, and didn’t want to be directed to a Jack Chick of Judaism. Kaninchen provided me with some excellent links.

I’m also hoping to hear from other Jewish traditions. Not sure how Conservative and Reformed would be defined, as in they’re not “denominations.”

 

[qui_est_ce]

I can tell you what Rabbi Moshe Chaim Luzzatto (the Ramchal, a medieval Italian Jewish kabbalist) said:

He says, in Derech Hashem (The Way of God), that in the world to come, everyone will worship the God of Israel, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. This seems borne out in Isaiah 56, where we read, “My House shall be called a House of Prayer for ALL people”.

OK. What is a kabbalist? Is it Orthodox? I read Madonna is kabbalist.

 

[Sepharad]

Oh my. you just described the Catholic Church. which is ruled by Jesus. where everyone worships God. Jews and gentiles.

Here is what the Angel told Mary. Hail Mary, the Lord is with thee. you will bare a Son and He will be called Emmanuel ( God is with us.)

is it possible for God to come to earth and walk among us?

Romans 13:1-2,
**“Let everyone be subject to the higher authorities, for there exists no authority except from GOD, AND THOSE WHO EXIST HAVE BEEN APPOINTED BY GOD (6). Therefore, he who resists the AUTHORITY resists the ordinance of GOD; and THEY THAT RESIST BRING ON THEMSELVES CONDEMNATION.” **

I said, “the God of Israel”. That means the God of the Jews. I didn’t say Jesus.

As for the concept of God taking on human form and walking on earth, Judaism rejects this possibility, in light of Deuetronomy chapter 4. In that chapter, Moses told the Jewish people plainly that they need to be careful not to worship anything manmade, and he reminded them that when God appeared, “you saw no form, but heard only a voice”. This is how we know that God does not take on human form, because Moses used that fact as an example of whyw e should not worship idols, etc

 

[ckempston]

I said, “the God of Israel”. That means the God of the Jews. I didn’t say Jesus.

As for the concept of God taking on human form and walking on earth, Judaism rejects this possibility, in light of Deuetronomy chapter 4. In that chapter, Moses told the Jewish people plainly that they need to be careful not to worship anything manmade, and he reminded them that when God appeared, “you saw no form, but heard only a voice”. This is how we know that God does not take on human form, because Moses used that fact as an example of whyw e should not worship idols, etc

First, men are not “manmade,” so that statement fails.

Second, God takes human form many times in the Old Testament. From the Jewish Encyclopedia:

“On the throne the prophet [Ezekiel] sees the Divine Being, having the likeness of a man.”

jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=182&letter=T&search=theophany

Edit to add:

God “walked” in the Garden with Adam and Eve, and Moses saw “his back.”

 

[Lapell]

From what I understand, there is an authentic Kabbalah and there are also some kinds of “Kabbalah” which rather seem to add things which are not authentic Kabbalah, am I correct? I don’t know which kind Madonna has adopted and promotes, but from some things I read, I believe it would be one of the latter kinds.

 

[qui_est_ce]

I said, “the God of Israel”. That means the God of the Jews. I didn’t say Jesus.

As for the concept of God taking on human form and walking on earth, Judaism rejects this possibility, in light of Deuetronomy chapter 4. In that chapter, Moses told the Jewish people plainly that they need to be careful not to worship anything manmade, and he reminded them that when God appeared, “you saw no form, but heard only a voice”. This is how we know that God does not take on human form, because Moses used that fact as an example of whyw e should not worship idols, etc

So the Messiah would not be God, but a human being sent by God?

 

[Lapell]

I said, “the God of Israel”. That means the God of the Jews. I didn’t say Jesus.

As for the concept of God taking on human form and walking on earth, Judaism rejects this possibility, in light of Deuetronomy chapter 4. In that chapter, Moses told the Jewish people plainly that they need to be careful not to worship anything manmade, and he reminded them that when God appeared, “you saw no form, but heard only a voice”. This is how we know that God does not take on human form, because Moses used that fact as an example of why we should not worship idols, etc

In the context, doesn’t “anything manmade” mean “anything made by man’s hands”? “manmade” and “made man” (especially if not made by man) may not then mean the same thing!

 

[Lapell]

So when Moses said that, it was directed at the surrounding religions using man-made idols made of wood, stone, bronze, gold or other material… He didn’t forbid the making of the two cherubim on top of the Ark of the Covenant, between which the Shekhinah appeared and spoke to Moshe. (Correct me if I misplaced a few things in the picture here, I’m going by memory here and my memory sometimes plays me some tricks at times!)