Are Jews Pro-Homosexual and if so why???

[Catholig]

I just wanted to ask how a Jew could justify homosexual marriages when the Talmud condemns it - specifically in regard to men.

Catholig

 

[Nevarlander]

Because a lot of people who identify as Jewish are culturally so and don’t particularly take the Talmud and stuff seriously. It’s like “cultural Catholics”.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Keep in mind there is such a thing as “secular jews”

google.com/search?hl=en&q=secular+jews

First, let’s consult the “Constitution” of the Jews, the Torah. Even a cursory reading of the relevant sections shows that the Torah is unequivocally opposed to the homosexual act, which it twice labels an abomination: Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. It’s worth noting that this prohibition is grouped with several other unacceptable sexual practices, including bestiality. Scholars have reviewed various attempts to justify homosexual behavior through the “reinterpretation” of these Torah passages, and have found them to be unconvincing.

So significant is the ban on homosexual activity that it is part of the afternoon Torah reading for Yom Kippur.

Moreover, Judaism has taken this admonition to heart over the centuries. “Even in antiquity, when countless cultures and religions incorporated homosexuality in some form, Judaism absolutely rejected homosexual practices,” writes New York attorney Eytan Kobre in a recent edition of the Forward.

End of discussion? Not really. Being a guidebook for living, Judaism should be expected to deal forthrightly, compassionately – and above all, realistically – with questions that flow from such a stern prohibition. The most critical one is this: If the act is forbidden, how are we to relate to the actors themselves?

The answer: As human beings and fellow Jews, individuals created b’tzelem elokeem, in the image of God. Judaism may disapprove of homosexual activity, but not of the homosexual himself. “He is as beloved in God’s eyes as any other Jew, and is as responsible as any Jew is in all the mitzvahs,” according to Rabbi Shraga Simmons of Aish HaTorah.

Nobody’s perfect; we all sin – and when we do, we are expected to do teshuvah, or repentance. The same holds true for this particular variety of sinner. “He need not feel irreparably and irretrievably stigmatized,” wrote Rabbi Barry Freundel of Congregation Kesher Israel in Washington, D.C. “Above all, he need not feel excluded from the community.”

The dynamic might change, however, if the individual insists on taking a public, activist approach that seeks to legitimize inherently unacceptable behavior. In that case, he would run the risk of distancing himself from the community – as would, for example, any Jew who publicly and explicitly promotes, say, the desecration of Shabbos or the wanton violation of other Jewish laws.

Whether homosexual activity is the product of nature or nurture is not critical. Judaism holds that the behavior of all functioning adults can and must be controlled, whether or not genes play a role in determining that behavior. As Eytan Kobre pointed out, “a primary function and overall goal of the commandments is nothing less than the transformation of the individual.” A key aspect of that transformation is the harnessing of personal passions and desires, a test we all face.

The fact is, predilections exist for all sorts of unacceptable and unlawful behavior, including that which causes bloodshed. The Talmud (Shabbos 156a) recognizes this, advising those thusly affected to channel their predisposition into useful endeavors by becoming surgeons or mohels, for example. Remember: Judaism does not govern orientations; only acts. “A desire for lobster dinner is not a violation of kashrus laws,” notes Rabbi Simmons. “Only the dinner is. The same is true with homosexuality.”

Regarding homosexuality, Jews are placed in the position of trying to be both steadfast and humane, and it isn’t always easy to pull that off. There are, however, honorable people who have tried their best to walk that tightrope, and have succeeded. They have found a way to be compassionate and understanding while not embracing the unembracable.

jlaw.com/Commentary/homosexuality.html

An important point to make from the outset is that Jewish law does not teach that it is forbidden to be a homosexual. On the contrary, Jewish law is concerned not with the source of a person’s erotic urges nor with inner feelings, but with acts. The Torah forbids the homosexual act, known as mishkav zakhar, but has nothing to say about homosexuality as a state of being or a personal inclination.

In other words, traditionally, a person with a homosexual inclination can be an entirely observant Jew as long as he or she does not act out that inclination.

myjewishlearning.com/ideas_belief/sex_sexuality/Overview_Homosexuality/Sex_Homosexuality_Halakhah_Gold.htm

 

[KarenNC]

I just wanted to ask how a Jew could justify homosexual marriages when the Talmud condemns it - specifically in regard to men.

Catholig

It depends on the denomination

myjewishlearning.com/ideas_belief/sex_sexuality/Overview_Homosexuality/Sex_SameSex_Powers.htm

 

[Catholig]

It depends on the denomination

myjewishlearning.com/ideas_belief/sex_sexuality/Overview_Homosexuality/Sex_SameSex_Powers.htm

The Talmud changes based on denomination? Or do they just ignore it.

Catholig

 

[blessedtoo]

The Talmud changes based on denomination? Or do they just ignore it.

Catholig

As with various Christian denominations that “re-interpret” the Bible to fit their cultural beliefs (Anglican and others), the scripture and tradition are unchangeable but the break-away groups reject what has was once universally accepted. So, yes, they ignore it by re-interpreting it to fit their needs.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The Talmud is a collection of rabbinic rulings and are not fully inspired.

Basically, what you are seeing is the difference of approaches to life in the different Jewish traditions.

 

[QuietTimes]

I know a elderly couple and they are reformed Jews. The last Rabbi they had was openly gay and practicing.

 

[Valke2]

I just wanted to ask how a Jew could justify homosexual marriages when the Talmud condemns it - specifically in regard to men.

Catholig

Jewish law traditionally prohibited homosexual activity. Conservative Judaism recently recognized that homosexual orientation is integral to the identiy of some men and women and that it is impossible for them to “convert” to become heterosexauls. These two facts – the prohibiton against the homosexual activity and the knowledge that homosexual orientation is integral to the identity of some people – obviously create a tension.

There is only one form of homosexual activity that is explicitly prohibited in biblical and rabbinic sources – anal intercouse. All other sources have been prohibited based on the authority/rulings of rabbis.

It is true that Mamonides argues otherwise, claiming there are biblical sources that prohibit all forms of homosexaul activity, Nachmanides argues otherwise.

The newly adopted halacha (law) by the COnservative movement recognizes that as our awareness of sexual orientation has developed, so has our awareness of the “horrific effects of halacha’s comprehensive ban on homosexaul behavior on Torah observant homosexaul Jews”. The situation is degrading and even dangerous to such people. THey have no legal options for sexual and social intimacy within the traditional paramaters.

THere is another law which teaches us to be zealous in the protection of protecting human dignity. This principle of The principle gadol kvod habriot shedocheh lo ta’aseh shebaTorah (Brakhot 19b etc.) has been applied in the Talmud and Codes of Halakhah in order to supersede rabbinic prohibitions for the sake of human dignity. The recent ruling states that we believe that the halakhic status quo (regarding homosexual activity) violates the dignity of gay and lesbian Jews, and argues for the supersession of the rabbinic prohibitions on homosexual sex for the sake of human dignity.

The result of this ruling is as follows: Gay and lesbian Jews may form intimate relationships, with the Torah’s explicit prohibition of anal sex between men remaining in force.
Bisexuals with primary sexual desires for someone of the opposite sex should seek to create a faithful heterosexual marriage with another Jew.
Commitment ceremonies that avoid the legal mechanisms
of kiddushin may be designed for gay and lesbian couples. There is to be no discrimination against gay and lesbian Jews.
Should they exhibit the other criteria needed for ordination as clergy, they shall be qualified to serve as rabbis, cantors and
Jewish educators.

Is summary, the principle of being zealous in defending the human dignity of others is applied to gay jews who, because of rabbinic prohibtions, have no way of legally (under Jewish law) engaging in social and sexaul intimacy. Such principle supercedes rabbinic rulings. However, the prohibition against man on man anal intercourse still stands.

This is now Conservative Jewish halacha, which rabbis in each community are free to follow. They are also free to follow other halacha which upholds the traditional bans.

Here is a link to the complete responsa that has been adopted (conservative judaism makes legal rulings by a committee. If a particular responsa goes before the committee and gets at least 7 votes, it is adopted as law. Since there are more than 22 people on the committe, it is possible to have conflicting responsa adopted as laws. Rabbis in each community are then free to adopt whichever law that feel is best for their community).

rabbinicalassembly.org/docs/Dorff_Nevins_Reisner_Final.pdf

 

[peary]

Orthodox Judaism opposes it. Reformed and Liberal Judaism, for the most part, do not.

 

[Rocky]

Jewish law traditionally prohibited homosexual activity. Conservative Judaism recently recognized that homosexual orientation is integral to the identiy of some men and women and that it is impossible for them to “convert” to become heterosexauls. These two facts – the prohibiton against the homosexual activity and the knowledge that homosexual orientation is integral to the identity of some people – obviously create a tension.

*I do not think that the Church would expect a person who is convinced that they are homosexually oriented to become a heterosexual. But the Church does expect both homosexuals and heterosexuals to remain chaste. *

*I have four children, three of whom lived with partners before marriage. We taught them and expected them to remain chaste before marriage. When they failed we asked them to return to chastity. When they lived with a partner before marriage we told them this was a big mistake, that they would not make a future marriage stronger by living together. And although we continued to talk to our children about returning to chastity while they lived with their partners, we did not shun them in any way, but they were not permitted to share a bed in our home before marriage. *

All three separated from their partners before marriage. Two of them did so during the pre-Cana process, and after marriage told us they were happy they had a period of several months living apart before the wedding. Our third child broke up with the partner, and now has expressed that perhaps marriage to anyone is not in the future. This one also left the Church before moving in with a partner.

*It is hard to tell someone you love him/her and want him/her to be happy, but that s/he can only be happy if s/he is true to Whom s/he is made for and therefore also true to him/herself. Even without bringing God into the picture society expects many married people to live chaste lives—spouses of people who have been in war or accidents that leave them incapable of the marital act is just one instance of enforced chastity that is expected. *

Life is not fair to everyone. God’s grace is available to any who ask for it.

 

[Valke2]

*I do not think that the Church would expect a person who is convinced that they are homosexually oriented to become a heterosexual. But the Church does expect both homosexuals and heterosexuals to remain chaste. *

Ok. But the question was how Jews view homosexuals. The recent conservative jewish halacha which I outlined does not expect homosexuals to remain chaste.