Are Lay Ministries hurting priestly vocations

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I also agree that parents should be involved in Youth Groups when needed & invited. Of course, the lay sponsors of the RCIA candidates should attend all sessions. However, having members of the laity TEACH the candidates has not proven successful.

It was quite strange in my previous parish. I worked in the kitchen of our “House of Bread”, actually fixing food & serving the poor & homeless, some of whom were alcoholics & drug abusers, some were people with mental problems who didn’t understand their need for medicine, some women raising 3-4 children alone, etc., etc. There were three of us who did this & we could NEVER get enough help, even on holidays. However, people were lined up to be EEM’s & Lectors. It seemed as if the “up-front” positions were favorites, while no one “had time” to mix with the “rabble”. Women most often volunteered…yet, we had not **one **woman from our parish become a nun during the 20 yrs. I spent there. :confused:
You can have a 40-hour-a-week job and be a lector or an EMHC. Being an EMHC could be done with a 70-hour-a-week job! Preparation is necessary outside the spiritual practice one would hope every Catholic would have, but it doesn’t take that much personal sacrifice in terms of scheduling, unless you count promising to show up at one particular Mass once a month as a scheduling sacrifice.

The kind of work you are talking about, on the other hand, is the kind that separates the sheep from goats, the most fundamental kind of answer to the call of the Gospel. I don’t mean this as a put-down of lectors or EMHC, I know you are blessed to be doing it, but…bless you, bless you, bless you.

I think women who answer the call into the religious life, though, need to be more than just willing to open their hearts to the poor for a certain number of hours a month. Atheist kids have been known to do that. To hear one’s vocation, one needs to be aware that one has a spiritual life, too, a private life of prayer outside of Mass that would make her want to consider foregoing having a man and children to take care of and forego having a career that she controls (or thinks she does) in order to be intent only on the things of the Lord. It is that second thing that makes it more difficult to find girls to join the convent now. There was a time when the religious life was the only path open for a Catholic woman who knew she wasn’t intended to marry. That is no longer true. It also helps if her parents openly express the opinion that following her vocation is what is important, a vocation which might or might not include finding a decent man and giving them grandchildren. IMO, though, the constant message that keeping one’s options open and controlling one’s own destiny is a fundamental human need is killing vocations, just as surely as it is killing marriages. We have been told of our liberty, great, but we have been lied to as to why we have it.

Nevertheless, one of our Serra speakers is convinced that work such as you describe should be part of the formation of every priest and religious, it is that fundamental to what the priestly and religious life is all about. Again: bless you!
 
CradleCath;4797893:
If you look at those in lay orders, most of them are married, so I don’t think that argument is a good one.
My point exactly. As I said in my post:

**Just think, they have a title within the Church without having to practice celibacy, live in the unmarried state, give up having children, etc. **

They have a title recognized by the Church, yet have given up very little…as opposed to priests who vow to be celibate, poor & obedient. One does wonder if these men would want to become priests if the many lay orders, “ministries”, etc. were not available.

One does wonder if women who want to be liturgists, EEM’s & on & on would become nuns who could actually teach Catholic children again if there weren’t so many lay ministries

It’s as Pope John Paul II said in** Christifideles laici (1989). **

The special mission of lay people is not in the church but in the world. He cautions against lay people becoming too interested in inner church matters to the neglect of their involvements in family, work, and society. **He warns also of the danger of “a clericalization’ of the lay faithful and the risk of creating, in reality, an ecclesial structure of parallel service to that founded on the sacrament of orders.” **Lay people derive their mission in the world directly from Christ, but when they perform ministries within the church they are assisting the hierarchy in a sphere that is not properly their own.

This is what I’ve always believed:
When God called me to the lay, married state…He gave me a mission to bring the Catholic Church & it’s teachings to the world. First to my children & to my husband & to us this meant somehow earning the money to send them to Catholic schools, doing without many things so that they could learn their faith. It meant checking on what they were learning, taking a part in this education. My God-given vocation was to be an influence for good in my husband’s life, a witness of faith. To my extended family, friends &…later in life to my business associates, etc…to be a good example of a Catholic woman who puts God first in her life.
 
Come on, give me a break! What kind of Church titles are EMHC, reader, husher? Are they really important in today’s Catholic society? They are just temporary labels that define the type of service that someone provides. If someone looks at it as an honorable title, then he is a loser, the service itself is honorable not the title.
I agree wholeheartedly, yet know some who pin their self-image onto the coat of their title within the Church.
 
Joannm;4798000:
My point exactly. As I said in my post:

**Just think, they have a title within the Church without having to practice celibacy, live in the unmarried state, give up having children, etc. **
They have a title recognized by the Church, yet have given up very little…as opposed to priests who vow to be celibate, poor & obedient. One does wonder if these men would want to become priests if the many lay orders, “ministries”, etc. were not available.

One does wonder if women who want to be liturgists, EEM’s & on & on would become nuns who could actually teach Catholic children again if there weren’t so many lay ministries

It’s as Pope John Paul II said in** Christifideles laici (1989). **

The special mission of lay people is not in the church but in the world. He cautions against lay people becoming too interested in inner church matters to the neglect of their involvements in family, work, and society. **He warns also of the danger of “a clericalization’ of the lay faithful and the risk of creating, in reality, an ecclesial structure of parallel service to that founded on the sacrament of orders.” **Lay people derive their mission in the world directly from Christ, but when they perform ministries within the church they are assisting the hierarchy in a sphere that is not properly their own.

This is what I’ve always believed:
When God called me to the lay, married state…He gave me a mission to bring the Catholic Church & it’s teachings to the world. First to my children & to my husband & to us this meant somehow earning the money to send them to Catholic schools, doing without many things so that they could learn their faith. It meant checking on what they were learning, taking a part in this education. My God-given vocation was to be an influence for good in my husband’s life, a witness of faith. To my extended family, friends &…later in life to my business associates, etc…to be a good example of a Catholic woman who puts God first in her life.

My point wass that most of these people enter third orders or parish ministry after they are married or when they are older. Look at the ministers in your parish. How many are young single people? They don’t want to enter into ministry in the parish, and they don’t want to enter into the priesthood or religous life. Lay ministry is not keep them from becoming priests.
 
YES, YEAH, UH HUH, YOU GOT IT TOOTS. A BIG HOO HAA HECK YEAH.

proof is in the puddin’

vatican II mass cant even get altar boys much less priests and traditional seminarians are lining up.
 
YES, YEAH, UH HUH, YOU GOT IT TOOTS. A BIG HOO HAA HECK YEAH.

proof is in the puddin’

vatican II mass cant even get altar boys much less priests and traditional seminarians are lining up.
The priest shortage has nothing to do with the Mass, it has to do with society and the pressure to do other things in one’s life. We have plenty of kids who come to mass, plenty of young people who come to mass and are very faithfilled. However they do not want to enter religious life because they want to make money, to have a family. They don’t see any purpose in entering religious life. It has nothing to do with the Mass or lay ministry. It has to do with families not fostering vocations in their children. It has to do with people squashing any vocations that young people in their family might have because they don’t see it as a viable lifestyle for their children.
 
YES, YEAH, UH HUH, YOU GOT IT TOOTS. A BIG HOO HAA HECK YEAH.

proof is in the puddin’
**
vatican II mass cant even get altar boys much less priests and traditional seminarians are lining up.**
Can you please explain how my NO parish has a roster of approximately 100 altar boys and at least 2 seminarians in preparation?
 
I agree wholeheartedly, yet know some who pin their self-image onto the coat of their title within the Church.
Something more sinister than Lay Ministries has reared it’s head here in Connectiicut this week. THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE OF THE CONNECTICUT STATE LEGISLATURE, INTRODUCED A BILL TO DISCONNECT PARISHES FROM THEIR PASTORS. THE ARCHBISHOP WOULD BE EFFECTIVELY “EXCLUDED”

Like ‘communist -run’ churches- a board of directors would run the churches -:signofcross:May God have mercy on our Churches …please pray for us…
This Wednesday, March 11th there will be a public hearing.View attachment 5315
 
YES, YEAH, UH HUH, YOU GOT IT TOOTS. A BIG HOO HAA HECK YEAH.

proof is in the puddin’

vatican II mass cant even get altar boys much less priests and traditional seminarians are lining up.
Exactly where are you getting your information? I really think it is incorrect. Maybe you could give us the stats on this statement and where they are found.😃
 
What is the number one reason that young men are not hearing the call to become priests?

It is no longer seen as a noble profession, either in the Church or outside the Church.

The pre-conciliar priests made a shambles of the priesthood in the sixties and seventies, such that we have gone as far (in my parish) to place windows in the confessional doors because no one can be alone with a priest.

One must address this issue before the other issues can be addressed. Young people read the news. Celibacy? That’s easy to take on compared to the derision and lack of respect that priests encounter both within the Church and in the world.
 
I have to agree about the lay people hating the latin mass.
I went through RCIA back in 2003-2004 and one of the lay assistants was this middle aged woman who was very liberal, progressive and has a big mouth. I locked horns with her about things that were not supposed to change durring VII and now when I see her she looks at me like I am a leper. I suspect lay people of this type are control freaks and cannot stand hearing they are wrong.
An article decrying the lack of priestly vocations in San Diego says:

Father Feinberg believes that reversing low priestly morale would encourage vocations. “Promote the dignity of the priesthood and stop undermining the authority of the clergy. I would also curtail many of the lay ministries that are replacing priests – things in the parish such as visiting the sick, instructing the converts, and administering the sacraments. If you undermine the clergy, how can you promote the priesthood?”

sdnewsnotes.com/ed/articles/2006/0604rk.htm

I’m not a fan of all of the lay ministries that one finds in the Church today. Before Vatican II & the mass exodus of our clergy & religious, these duties were performed by the priests themselves. At that time, my own parish had 3 priests &, usually in addition to those, there were Seminarians that came to help during Holy Week, etc.

I have also noticed that some (not all) who embrace these ministries are totally against the Latin Mass. This is just my “take” on the situation. Can some of you share with me how you feel about Vocation Directors, parish secretaries, RICA educators, EEM’s, Liturgists, etc., etc. who are paid employees (volunteers) of the Church. And what do you think that does to vocations?? I remember well how relieved I was when my Father was dying & the Pastor of the Church came for the Last Rites. He, at age 76, would not have felt comfortable if they had sent an EEM & he was simply administered the Eucharist this often happens.
 
When young men see churches infested with lay ministers, women eucharistic ministers, altar girls etc, I think subconsciously they just think “I don’t want any part of this nonsense”
 
Are lay ‘ministries’ hurting priestly vocations-I say a loud YES!

I don’t like the emasculation of the priesthood. I also don’t like the term ‘ministry’ tacked onto everything that goes on in a parish. I used to be a lector [that’s called a ‘ministry’], and sang both in choirs and alone as a cantor ‘music ministry’, it’s called now :rolleyes: ]. I now go to the TLM, where there is no blurring of the distinction [and there IS a distinction, in spite of what the liberals say] between the clergy and the laity. I decided that, in going to the TLM, I wouldn’t be an accessory to the destruction of the priesthood.

Without priests, we wouldn’t have the Mass or the sacraments. Lay ‘ministers’ CANNOT say Mass, or confer the sacraments!
Marriage? Baptism?- who confers those sacraments? And btw, the sacraments belong to the church, not the priest.
 
When young men see churches infested with lay ministers, women eucharistic ministers, altar girls etc, I think subconsciously they just think “I don’t want any part of this nonsense”
That’s quite a statement. You are talking from facts? or is this just your personal opinion.
Where do you find the stats on this type of “subsconscious” thinking? Personal opinsions should state that they are personal opinions. Don’t you think?😃
 
Are lay ‘ministries’ hurting priestly vocations-I say a loud YES!

I don’t like the emasculation of the priesthood. I also don’t like the term ‘ministry’ tacked onto everything that goes on in a parish. I used to be a lector [that’s called a ‘ministry’], and sang both in choirs and alone as a cantor ‘music ministry’, it’s called now :rolleyes: ]. I now go to the TLM, where there is no blurring of the distinction [and there IS a distinction, in spite of what the liberals say] between the clergy and the laity. I decided that, in going to the TLM, I wouldn’t be an accessory to the destruction of the priesthood.

Without priests, we wouldn’t have the Mass or the sacraments. Lay ‘ministers’ CANNOT say Mass, or confer the sacraments!
Destruction of the priesthood? Where are you coming from. What about the “music ministry”, or the sister’s teaching religious education, isn’t that a ministry in itself. Ministry is not just the priest. You think this is emasculation? :o
 
Auntie:
That’s quite a statement. You are talking from facts? or is this just your personal opinion.
Where do you find the stats on this type of “subsconscious” thinking? Personal opinsions should state that they are personal opinions. Don’t you think?😃
The prior poster said:
Originally Posted by Seamus L View Post
When young men see churches infested with lay ministers, women eucharistic ministers, altar girls etc, I think subconsciously they just think “I don’t want any part of this nonsense”
As you can see, the poster said “I think”, so that ensures that it IS a personal opinion. Maybe there is a need to slow the reading of the posts before trying to “correct” the others. That happens to me too. My two cents.
 
When young men see churches infested with lay ministers, women eucharistic ministers, altar girls etc, I think subconsciously they just think “I don’t want any part of this nonsense”
They would probably rather learn the TLM or another traditional Liturgy like this one. 👍

youtube.com/watch?v=rxQ0pecJQUQ

This Liturgy would be Cardinal Mahony’s worst nightmare!. He He !
 
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