Are Lay Ministries hurting priestly vocations

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And NEVER did they need a title. They didn’t call themselves part of the “lay apostolate”, nor “ministers”. They took what our priests gave them to the outside world. They had their duties. The priests had THEIR duties.
I think this a contamination from a world in which garbage collectors feel a need to be called “sanitary engineers”, which in turn came from too many in the population promoting college educations on the grounds that honest manual labor is somehow demeaning.

If it became less fashionable to look down on people who do the manual work that keeps the country running, if “self-esteem” wasn’t attached to some imagined status that requires false glamour and a made-up office to prop it up, maybe we could dispense with such nonsense.

That isn’t to say that what used to be called a “corporal work of mercy” in the old days can’t properly be called a “ministry”. Either one fits; it doesn’t matter to me. It is to say that I think it is harmful that people attach such importance to labels. I think it is because the work itself is not held in the esteem it once was. If you don’t invent an important-sounding label for it, the work is avoided or neglected. That is wrong.
 
CradleCath-All I can respond to your post is AMEN AND AMEN!

👍 👍 :clapping: :clapping:
Thank you, Oakum & Barb F. That pray, pay & obey is ssssoooooooooo yesterday. I just couldn’t let it pass. Perhaps they can come up with something original to criticize us with???
 
Thanks for the history. Really powerful images.

But today, the Church has decided that it is appropriate and desirable to have laity serve as Lectors, EMHC, catechists, and so on. The Magisterium uses the term “lay apostolate” (it was not something dreamed up by the laity) and determines what titles are appropriate for people serving in ministries. The laity of course are still called to serve and witness in the “outside world” but now some are called by the Church to also serve the Church’s “internal” needs. These are not duties self-appropriated by the laity, these are ministry that the Church orders and regulates and encourages.** You may not like the Church today but it’s still the Church.**
Cheers
Well, it wasn’t for many years. But you’re right…today it’s getting there. My family & I will be celebrating a Solemn High Mass this Easter, it’s been a loooonnng Time!!
montanalatinmass.com/images/elevationoftheeucharist_ql2x.jpg

BTW. You’ve probably figured this out, but we will do so with not one lay person in the Sanctuary, without **one member of the laity **distributing the Body & Blood of Christ, without all of the Lectors, without all of the moving & commotion & most (about 2/3) of the congregation will be families where the parents are in their 30’s. Yep. Our priest, our Seminarians & our male servers will be taking care of the “internal needs” of the Church.
 
Keeping the laity out of the sanctuary will threaten the self-inflated ego of many overly prominent members, however, it’s necessary to restore the prestige of our clergy.

Forty years after the window was cracked open, the spirit of Vatican II has not served us well.

ROME, March 3, 2009 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Official statistics released this weekend by the Vatican on the numbers of adult converts, priests and seminarians, show that the small growth in some areas is not matching the needs of the Church. Despite several media reports highlighting a modest growth in critical statistics in the Church, the numbers actually reveal a backwards trend.
 
Thank you, Oakum & Barb F. That pray, pay & obey is ssssoooooooooo yesterday. I just couldn’t let it pass. Perhaps they can come up with something original to criticize us with???
That is so ironic I can’t let it pass.

The old put downs have served us well for decades. Why should we try to implement new putdowns? The newer ones are not as rich, not as steeped in tradition. The world would not be where it is today if people would just use traditional Catholic putdowns.
 
That is so ironic I can’t let it pass.

The old put downs have served us well for decades. Why should we try to implement new putdowns? The newer ones are not as rich, not as steeped in tradition. The world would not be where it is today if people would just use traditional Catholic putdowns.
Are you saying that the traditional Catholic putdowns are superior to the those of the New Order? How DARE you!!! 😉
 
…"My family & I will be celebrating a Solemn High Mass this Easter, it’s been a loooonnng Time!! BTW. You’ve probably figured this out, but we will do so with not one lay person in the Sanctuary, without **one member of the laity **distributing the Body & Blood of Christ, without all of the Lectors, without all of the moving & commotion & most (about 2/3) of the congregation will be families where the parents are in their 30’s. Yep. Our priest, our Seminarians & our male servers will be taking care of the “internal needs” of the Church.
How terribly sad!
 
Are you saying that the traditional Catholic putdowns are superior to the those of the New Order? How DARE you!!! 😉
Anything written after “Funnius Churchuis Jokeum” in 1960 just doesn’t capture the spirit and tradition of Church putdowns.

:cool:
 
Well, it wasn’t for many years. But you’re right…today it’s getting there.
That’s not what I said, that the Church is “getting there.” The Church IS. I disagree that it “wasn’t for many years.” I think what you’re really saying is that what you WANT the Church to be wasn’t for many years and is now getting there.

Which makes me wonder how all of us view the Church, meaning, is the true Church what we experience, or something that exists in our minds? When I read things like the quote above, well, I tend to wonder if the person expressing that thought is defining Church in the latter rather than the former.

Cheers
 
S****nippets from
The Emasculation of the Priesthood

The celibate priest, is offered through his office an incomparable and unparalleled intimacy: he alone could touch God.
The celibate priest no longer possesses the unique corporeal relationship with God. He is not denied the relationship, but others have access to it. Consider a parallel situation: i.e., within the Sacrament of Matrimony. The possession of an exclusive bodily prerogative with one’s spouse is primary; in fact there exists no greater convergence between the Divine Law and the instincts of even fallen human nature than on this point.
The fact is that many priests do have an instinctive reaction against the presence of the non-consecrated hand touching the Body of God. A non-consecrated hand in the tabernacle, or reaching for the Sacrament at the reception of Holy Communion, violates an intimacy that was, before the engineering of liturgical “roles,” exclusively the priest’s. A dynamic equivalent to what would fuel the emotions of a husband who realizes another has shared the exclusive intimacy with the one to whom he has permanently committed himself, is present within priests. The sense of alienation is more intense for the traditional celibate priest because he is aware that his spouse, the Church, has arranged and promoted the nonexclusivity.
The change in Church practice that was the gateway to all of the above was Communion in the hand. Paul VI, in the very document that permitted the* radical* departure from tradition, *appealed *to the faithful to *keep *the original practice of receiving the Eucharist on the tongue. His entreaty revolved around one main point: that it was an ancient and venerable practice; it was tradition.
A “presider” at a priestless Communion service sits in the *priest’s *chair, proclaims the Gospel, preaches a *homily *(supposedly composed by a priest or deacon, though seldom is this the case), goes to the tabernacle, prays at the altar of sacrifice and distributes the Eucharist. This non-sacerdotal anomaly talks like a priest, *acts *like a priest, appropriates the sanctuary which for at least a millennium and a half had been the sacred domain of the *priest *and clothes him or herself in priestly vesture. All of this is incompatible with the celibate priest’s identification with fatherhood (in his case, a spiritual one). It represents a radical departure from century upon *century *of Church history and experience, and offers liturgical approbation to the concept of a “Fatherless” parish society.
While insisting that nothing has essentially been changed for the priest because he is still the one who consecrates, the liturgical engineers have made his presence optional at the most *intimate *moment of Holy Communion between the flock under *his *care and Our Lord. The majority of Catholics receive the Eucharist from the hands of a lay person. The act of shared intimacy that is at the heart of shepherding (“Feed my lambs, feed my sheep”) is absent. The Church, echoing an increasingly feminized society, is telling priests: “Once you have consecrated, you are no long needed.” The act of the priest “feeding” the faithful with the Bread of Life incarnates his role as Its sole provider and, far more than the eye can see, forms *his *and his people’s perception of his spiritual fatherhood. The priest’s role was never confined to the sanctuary, but what made him unique to his people was his unique relationship to the Eucharist .
http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_emasculation.html
 
If teaching is a ministry, then lay teaching ministries are not hurting vocations to the priesthood. Who taught the CCD children 75 years ago when the rectories were full of priests?

For the last 100 years did the laity do nothing except pay, pray and obey?
Cradlecatholic thoroughly described a beautiful era…I was part of that era…and what is going on now makes me sick.:crying:
Saint Pope Pius X said, “Modernism is the sewer of all heresies and is affecting dogma and the mind of clergy.”
View attachment 5397
 
:confused: Both our priests were not at church tonight during the stations of the cross. I believe they were at another church hearing confessions with the rest of the local priests.
The man who led the stations of the cross wore a white robe with a cinture and a crucifix. He led the congregation using the standard prayers we pray. Another man held the large crucifix while two girls held the candles. The cross and candle bearers were dressed in street clothes.

No priests. A congregation. What should we have done:confused:
 
Bless You. Hang in there with those of us who know what the Church really was/is.
Wow.

So there are some of you who are privileged and exclusive, who know what the Church really is/was? And you’re separate from the Magisterium?

Please, enlighten the rest of us on the true nature of the Catholic Church.

Cheers
 
Walked out. It would be better to go home and pray the stations privately then to stay and seemingly support this type of behaviour.
What kind of behavior? Stations of the Cross is a private devotion and does not have to be led by a priest. It sounds as if everything was done quite well. The person leading wore an alb, which is a proper ministerial garment for all, priest and laity alike.
 
:confused: Both our priests were not at church tonight during the stations of the cross. I believe they were at another church hearing confessions with the rest of the local priests.
The man who led the stations of the cross wore a white robe with a cinture and a crucifix. He led the congregation using the standard prayers we pray. Another man held the large crucifix while two girls held the candles. The cross and candle bearers were dressed in street clothes.

No priests. A congregation. What should we have done:confused:
If you wanted to pray the stations of the Cross, you should have stayed and prayed. If you didn’t want to pray the stations of the Cross you should have left.
 
Wow.

So there are some of you who are privileged and exclusive, who know what the Church really is/was? And you’re separate from the Magisterium?

Please, enlighten the rest of us on the true nature of the Catholic Church.

Cheers
Privileged & exclusive??? I don’t think so. Try blessed, fortunate, lucky…whatever. Those who know what the Church really is/was…as opposed to those who don’t…YES!!

Another thing I’ve noticed about those of us who have lived Catholicism both before the council & after is: WE ARE SELDOM RUDE, SARCASTIC & CONFRONTATIONAL. It happens… especially when we’re pushed to the limit… but not nearly as frequently as it does with those who so jealously guard the Novus Ordo Mass & it’s trappings (i.e. CITH, EEM’s & Father Billy Bob strolling up & down the aisle “high-fiving” during the kiss of peace, etc., etc.).
 
People with self-inflated egos will defend their supposed entitlements and view any attempts to restrict their agendas with hostility and contempt. Look what happened in Austria when the Pope’s selection for Bishop of Linz was met with outrage.
 
What kind of behavior? Stations of the Cross is a private devotion and does not have to be led by a priest. It sounds as if everything was done quite well. The person leading wore an alb, which is a proper ministerial garment for all, priest and laity alike.
So why does a lay person wear an alb for leading Stations but not for distributing Holy Communion?
 
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