Whose God? Whose Christ? Joseph Smith’s or the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that has stood the test of time for 2000+ years? The one that has historic legitimacy or Joseph Smith’s whose claims cannot be verified? The one that has many unimpeachable witnesses to it’s Truth or Joseph Smith who has no unimpeachable witnesses?
I know that Oliver Cowldry was there at the translation of the golden plates. However, the testimony that I’m aware of is that they did not actually see the plates. Also, Oliver Cowldry & Hiram Page were sent by JS to Toronto, Canada to sell the copywrite to the book of mormon. This mission was ordered by a revelation that JS claimed he had from God. Please explain the failure of this mission.
No they were not. The record shows otherwise. Please provide copies of said slander for proof. Even 150 years ago this was considered vigilante justice or JS would never have been arrested for it!
Well, if some things aren’t substantially true, then there really isn’t any point in believing in the religion, don’t you think?
and yet we now know hat everything the expositor claimed was true. it wasn’t libel. and it was JS all on his own that decreed it should be destroyed. this was abuse of power, conspiracy and all to cover up the lusty exploits of a womanizing conman
Considering the import of this vision, it surprising to say the least, that there were no witnesses as with all other major events that changed biblical history. Also, stating that it is a rather private vision, means that it is just that private and not binding upon anyone else.
Samuel was given to Eli to be trained. Who trained JS?
In poetry, much emotive, (logically) inaccurate, symbolic, and exaggerated language is used with poetic license in order to appeal to the heart rather than the mind, which renders the text unsuitable for too accurate a logical, theological, or juridical interpretation. Consider the oft-quoted passage: ". . . before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me." (Isaiah 43:10.) If you took that statement too literally, you would have to conclude that the one true God was formed!
Hi ljahns,
Not true.
All this "spiritual eyes " nonsense is hay that has already been through the horse. Take that testimony into any court in the land and you are going to get laughed out of town. "Yes, your honor, I saw that man steal my car with my spiritual eyes and I know that it was him."If JS needed the Urim and Thummim to read the “plates,” then your prophet’s “spiritual eyes” must have been defective. Like your whole religion is defective. You don’t really believe that stuff, do you?Not true.
Some anti-Mormon literature focuses on statements by some of the Three Witnesses saying that they didn’t see with their natural eyes, but rather with their spiritual eyes. Then, of course, they interpret this to mean that they didn’t see anything. But this ignores the LDS belief that one must be transformed into a spiritual state to see a celestial being, and the three witnesses were shown the plates by an angel. The fact is that the witnesses affirmed over, and Over, and OVER that they really saw an angel and the plates, and that they handled the plates with their hands. They affirmed this even after they had various quarrels with J. Smith and left the Church.
Which just goes to show that your typical anti-Mormon writer is a hell-bound liar.
I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church—much more so than for Protestant churches for example. But no denying that the early Christianity apostatized.
I couldn’t care less what you do. I do not compromise on LDS principles because of threats and inuendos.
That is sad. You know better than that. Nothing further to say.Inaccurate language ?!?!?!? Poetic license ?!?!?!? :hypno:
Unsuitable for logical, theological, or juridicial interpretation ?!?!?!?
You’ve got to be kidding. This spin is desperation at its extreme.
Can our other LDS apologists here do any better than this?
The “figurative language” angle is an old argument. It doesn’t work for you either. God is one, not a plurality of beings. There is no Eternal Progression, there are no other gods that came before God, and none of the creatures God formed, including you, will become gods. God says that quite definitively. The only reason you don’t see it is because you don’t want to see it.
The difference is: Satan seeks to undermine the word and will of god, whereas, the lds seek to live the will and word of god. And that is a major difference. To compare satan with the lds is quite a stretch of imagination. They are total opposites in terms of belief and works.Satan believes in Jesus. That doesn’t make Satan a Christian.
I believe that both churches have a lot of good in them. Now, I go to Mass quite ofen and enjoy the catholic community. I find a great deal of fellowship with the religion of my birth. But the lds, for those who wish to practice the lds faith, also find good fellowship and support from people who attempt to live the word and will of god. Both catholics and mormons can work together to make our world and local communities more holy.
It has nothing to do with lying to oneself. It has to do with recognizing the good in both faiths and drawing support, fellowship and holiness from both faiths. On moral issues the lds and the catholics are extremely close. And in real life, both catholics and lds usually have no problems in working together to support moral values and integrity in our societies.
I have not asked you to compromise your principles. I’ve only asked that you be respectful of the Catholic faith. You don’t have to use ad hominem wording to get your point across.
Piffle it is lying to yourself to say both are truth. And to what end do you mash together these two religions(disfiguring both). Working together?? Why in the world do I have to follow another’s beliefs and religious practice in order to work with them toward a common goal?