Are LDS Protestants or are they separate?

[Auntie_M]

A prophesy is a prophesy but it does not necessarily have to come to pass. To my understanding there are also prophesies in the old testament that never came to pass also. Much depends on the righeousness of the people and the evilness of the people. History, or should I say, the hardened hearts of the non-mormons stopped this prophecy from happening. Such is free will.

You are definitely right on that one. ANYONE can make a “prediction”, religious or not. But one must not put a religious air on someone **just **making predictions.

 

[AMDGtoo]

If there is NO one being paid, Where does all the money go to?
I know you pay “tithes”. I may be confused on which sect does this, but in one religious sect, there is no one paying any taxes as all the money that is made goes to the church, and in turn the church gives the people the money they need to live on. So, their wages are seen as “non-profit” by tax standards cause it all goes to the church?

Have no idea where all the money goes. But I do know that my convert-to-Mormonism daughter pays taxes–her husband’s wages are not “non-profit”. And yes they pay “tithes”–10% on anything that could be considered “income” plus monthly “fast” offerings and whatever else the bishop tells them. They have to if they want to get a temple recommend every two years so that they can go to their temple.

 

[Auntie_M]

Have no idea where all the money goes. But I do know that my convert-to-Mormonism daughter pays taxes–her husband’s wages are not “non-profit”. And yes they pay “tithes”–10% on anything that could be considered “income” plus monthly “fast” offerings and whatever else the bishop tells them. They have to if they want to get a temple recommend every two years so that they can go to their temple.

Thank you for clearing that up, after I posted this, I remembered it was either the Quakers or Mennonites. I hope I am not telling you wrong on this.

There is alot of money going somewhere, though, isn’t it.

 

[GemmaRose]

Originally Posted by ljahns
I have asked a couple of them wether or not they were converts or were born into LDS and also if they were paid members of the LDS. Can’t get them to answer those questions. I think z and bdawg are either paid members and this is part of their jobs or are on their mission and this is it.

Good grief! You would think ljahns was asking for his name, rank, and serial number!

 

[why_me]

Who is Carlos Rene Romero? There are alot of “stories” floating around, even in the “Watchtower”. But the MAIN thing one must be on the lookout for is “IS IT VERIFIABLE” .

Just like the “actors” who do commercials, they are paid to say these things, even when they don’t actually even USE the product they are talking about.

Just as in the JW’s Watchtower, there are “stories” upon stories but they NEVER give “who wrote these stories”. At least the Ensign did say by whom. But still how do you really know this man is truly real or someone’s imagination.

As a retired “salesperson”, I learned alot about “Second party stories” THEY SELL. People WANT to believe and when they hear a story of someone else “believing”, somehow it justifies them. It is and always has been a SALES TECHNIQUE.

As I have always heard, Preachers/pastors/etc HAVE to be VERY GOOD salespersons because they are selling the “invisible”.

Unless YOU know this Carlos personally, and have talked with HIM PERSONALLY about his experience, AND have SEEN God’s verification of him, don’t believe it. IF God did in fact speak to him, there would be some sort of “'verification” following that should be written about also.

Usually in the lds church magazine, there is the author’s place of worship. His story can be verified. The story is a quite a usual story for lds converts. Nothing exceptional in it. The lds church would fall like a house of cards if this witness was not experienced.

 

[why_me]

You are definitely right on that one. ANYONE can make a “prediction”, religious or not. But one must not put a religious air on someone **just **making predictions.

Prophecies do not have to come true. If a people suddenly slip into unrighteousness, the prophecy may not happen. Much depends on the people involved and their actions.

 

[hosemonkey]

Prophecies do not have to come true. If a people suddenly slip into unrighteousness, the prophecy may not happen. Much depends on the people involved and their actions.

AHA! That’s why none of Joe Smith’s “prophecies” came to pass, he was eaten up with unrighteousness. Musta been a false prophet.

 

[Gene_Church]

I am amazed this thread has continued to go on. Catholics do not see LDS as Protestant, or Christian for that matter. LDS see themselves as Christian, but not Protestant, although that becomes subject to interpretation, depending upon whom you listen to. But then again, Jehovah’s Witnesses have some of these same problems, vis a vis the Catholic Church.

I do not see anyone truly convincing anyone else here.

 

[GemmaRose]

Allow me A recap of the past few pages:

Joseph Smith:Their creeds are an abomination
BDawga) I have no problem with the Apostles’ Creed. I think “their creeds are an abomination” was a general statement that doesn’t apply to all creeds equally, or to all statements in the creeds equally.
(b) I was talking about how creeds are used.
Questions:So… to which creeds does JS’ statement apply, and to what extent?
To which statements in which creeds does JS’ statement apply?
What’s wrong with how creeds are used?
Conclusion:NOT EVEN MORMONS KNOW WHAT THEY BELIEVE ON THE SUBJECT OF CREEDS.

Mormon:We don’t have a creed.
Dictionary:Creed - (1) statement of beliefs: a formal summary of the principles of the Christian faith
(2) a set of religious beliefs
(3) any set of beliefs or principles
Mormon articles of faith:12 out of 13 begin with the words “We believe”
Conclusion:MORMONS INDEED HAVE A CREED WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT.

Mormon:Joseph Smith was a prophet
Dictionaryrophet - (1) somebody who interprets divine will: somebody who claims to interpret or transmit the commands of a deity – IOW, A TRUE PROPHET WOULD CORRECTLY INTERPRET THE DIVINE WILL
(2) somebody predicting the future: somebody who predicts the future – IOW, A TRUE PROPHET’S PROPHECIES OF THE FUTURE WOULD COME TRUE
(3) advocate of something: somebody who advocates a cause or idea – IOW, JS WAS AN ADVOCATE OF HIS OWN DELSIONS
(4) inspired leader: somebody considered to be an inspired leader or teacher – IOW, ONLY LDS CONSIDER HIM TO BE A PROPHET
Conclusion:JS WAS NOT A TRUE PROPHET

Mormon:A prophecy not yet fulfilled is not considered false because the generation which first heard the prophecy has not yet passed.
Reality:More than 160 years have passed since the “prophecy” was uttered
Conclusion:NONSENSICAL BELIEF.

Mormon belief:Quote from Mormon scriptures: Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
Mormon claim:They haven’t had enough time to complete this prophesy yet and it could not be considered a false prophesy because that generation had not yet passed, because some members were “translated” (prophesy was made over 160 years ago).
This wasn’t a prediction, but a commandment.
Reality:The temple was to be dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, who did not “translate” but died in a gunfight.
Conclusion:NONSENSICAL BELIEF.
JS WAS A FALSE PROPHET.
MORMONS DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY BELIEVE.

Mormon prophecy:Joseph Smith prophesied the US government would be overthrown and wasted.
Mormon belief:Prophecy came to pass "in a way" because a particular presidential election didn't go as one man planned (which is quite different from our government being “overthrown and wasted”).
Conclusion:MORMONS APPARENTLY HAVE THEIR OWN INTERPRETATIONS OF EVEN THEIR OWN PROPHESIES. THOSE INTERPRETATIONS SEEM TO CHANGE ACCORDING TO THE OUTCOME.

Mormon:“We have absolutely no professional clergy. That is to say, nobody ever goes to college or the seminary to train to become a lifelong Mormon cleric. No such thing exists.”
Conclusion:NO “PROFESSIONAL” OR TRAINED CLERGY LEADS TO NO LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY, NO LEADERSHIP, AND ULTIMATELY, DISORDER AND CONFUSION.

Hosemonkey, I think I'd like to revise your count:
[INDENT]Catholics: 1,000[/INDENT]
[INDENT]Mormons: 0[/INDENT]
:)

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Allow me A recap of the past few pages:

Joseph Smith:Their creeds are an abomination
BDawga) I have no problem with the Apostles’ Creed. I think “their creeds are an abomination” was a general statement that doesn’t apply to all creeds equally, or to all statements in the creeds equally.
(b) I was talking about how creeds are used.
Questions:So… to which creeds does JS’ statement apply, and to what extent?
To which statements in which creeds does JS’ statement apply?
What’s wrong with how creeds are used?
Conclusion:NOT EVEN MORMONS KNOW WHAT THEY BELIEVE ON THE SUBJECT OF CREEDS.

Mormon:We don’t have a creed.
Dictionary:Creed - (1) statement of beliefs: a formal summary of the principles of the Christian faith
(2) a set of religious beliefs
(3) any set of beliefs or principles
Mormon articles of faith:12 out of 13 begin with the words “We believe”
Conclusion:MORMONS INDEED HAVE A CREED WHETHER THEY KNOW IT OR NOT.

Mormon:Joseph Smith was a prophet
Dictionaryrophet - (1) somebody who interprets divine will: somebody who claims to interpret or transmit the commands of a deity – IOW, A TRUE PROPHET WOULD CORRECTLY INTERPRET THE DIVINE WILL
(2) somebody predicting the future: somebody who predicts the future – IOW, A TRUE PROPHET’S PROPHECIES OF THE FUTURE WOULD COME TRUE
(3) advocate of something: somebody who advocates a cause or idea – IOW, JS WAS AN ADVOCATE OF HIS OWN DELSIONS
(4) inspired leader: somebody considered to be an inspired leader or teacher – IOW, ONLY LDS CONSIDER HIM TO BE A PROPHET
Conclusion:JS WAS NOT A TRUE PROPHET

Mormon:A prophecy not yet fulfilled is not considered false because the generation which first heard the prophecy has not yet passed.
Reality:More than 160 years have passed since the “prophecy” was uttered
Conclusion:NONSENSICAL BELIEF.

Mormon belief:Quote from Mormon scriptures: Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
Mormon claim:They haven’t had enough time to complete this prophesy yet and it could not be considered a false prophesy because that generation had not yet passed, because some members were “translated” (prophesy was made over 160 years ago).
This wasn’t a prediction, but a commandment.
Reality:The temple was to be dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, who did not “translate” but died in a gunfight.
Conclusion:NONSENSICAL BELIEF.
JS WAS A FALSE PROPHET.
MORMONS DON’T EVEN KNOW WHAT THEY BELIEVE.

Mormon prophecy:Joseph Smith prophesied the US government would be overthrown and wasted.
Mormon belief:Prophecy came to pass "in a way" because a particular presidential election didn't go as one man planned (which is quite different from our government being “overthrown and wasted”).
Conclusion:MORMONS APPARENTLY HAVE THEIR OWN INTERPRETATIONS OF EVEN THEIR OWN PROPHESIES. THOSE INTERPRETATIONS SEEM TO CHANGE ACCORDING TO THE OUTCOME.

Mormon:“We have absolutely no professional clergy. That is to say, nobody ever goes to college or the seminary to train to become a lifelong Mormon cleric. No such thing exists.”
Conclusion:NO “PROFESSIONAL” OR TRAINED CLERGY LEADS TO NO LEGITIMATE AUTHORITY, NO LEADERSHIP, AND ULTIMATELY, DISORDER AND CONFUSION.

Hosemonkey, I think I'd like to revise your count:
[INDENT]Catholics: 1,000[/INDENT]
[INDENT]Mormons: 0[/INDENT]
:)

 

[hosemonkey]

GemmaRose,
I think that just about sums it up. Good job!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Hi all you Catholics who have defended Catholicism so well in this thread. There is another mormon drawing attention to himself in this thread forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3944193#post3944193 . He actually said we shouldn’t be picking on 20 year old missionaries and we should pick on someone our own size.

Are you ready to rumble?

Click the link.

May the peace of the Lord be with you all,

 

[GemmaRose]

Hi all you Catholics who have defended Catholicism so well in this thread. There is another mormon drawing attention to himself in this thread forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3944193#post3944193 . He actually said we shouldn’t be picking on 20 year old missionaries and we should pick on someone our own size.

Are you ready to rumble?

Click the link.

May the peace of the Lord be with you all,

http://bestsmileys.com/hitting/10.gif

 

[GemmaRose]

I guess our LDS friends couldn’t think of a way to refute us in this thread and thought they’d have more luck in other threads.

 

[Frank_Cox]

The Mormons cannot be Protestants because they did not exist until the 19th century, the reformation was in the 16th century.

The Mormons were sort of Christian when they followed the BOM which was a mixture of Cambellite restoration doctrine the bible and fiction . They did believe that Jesus was God but no longer. Jesus was the spirit baby brother of Satan and “Elohiem” had physical sex with Mary and got her pregnant to produce a body for Jesus.

Ever since the 1830’s they have been a psuedo Christian cult that has resurrected the Arian heresy… They claim Jesus was a created being, not the creator as Catholics and other Christians believe. Christ is a title, not a surname.
Protestants, Baptists, and Catholics are Christians, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are cult members. The Mormons believe the good Mormon men get to become god and populate their own planet by having physical elation with multiple “spirit wives” .
It is similar to Islam in that women are treated as cattle and can only go to heaven if there husband calls for them in the temple.
If he does they will spend eternity pregnant. What a deal!

No Protestants and Baptists do not believe as the Mormon’s and JW’s do that the mean Catholics stole the gospel . They believe the RCC became more and more apostate by adding doctrine such as purgatory and the ascension of Mary and they continue to do so today. But many Catholics are Christians, not a single Mormon who does not convert will see heaven and all Christians need to witness to them.

 

[1holycatholic]

The Mormons cannot be Protestants because they did not exist until the 19th century, the reformation was in the 16th century.

Assemblies of God started in 1914 and they’re Protestant.

The Mormons were sort of Christian when they followed the BOM which was a mixture of Cambellite restoration doctrine the bible and fiction . They did believe that Jesus was God but no longer. Jesus was the spirit baby brother of Satan and “Elohiem” had physical sex with Mary and got her pregnant to produce a body for Jesus.

Ever since the 1830’s they have been a psuedo Christian cult that has resurrected the Arian heresy… They claim Jesus was a created being, not the creator as Catholics and other Christians believe. Christ is a title, not a surname.
Protestants, Baptists, and Catholics are Christians, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are cult members. The Mormons believe the good Mormon men get to become god and populate their own planet by having physical elation with multiple “spirit wives” .
It is similar to Islam in that women are treated as cattle and can only go to heaven if there husband calls for them in the temple.
If he does they will spend eternity pregnant. What a deal!

No Protestants and Baptists do not believe as the Mormon’s and JW’s do that the mean Catholics stole the gospel . They believe the RCC became more and more apostate by adding doctrine such as purgatory and the ascension of Mary and they continue to do so today. But many Catholics are Christians, not a single Mormon who does not convert will see heaven and all Christians need to witness to them.

Baptists are Protestants.

Every Catholic is a Christian.

Outside the Church there is no salvation.

 

[LutheranDK]

They are definitely Christian and many live good christian lives according to the New Testament.

No one who believes the blasphemies of the LDS is a Christian. I suspect that both “protestants” and RCs can agree on this much?

 

[1holycatholic]

No one who believes the blasphemies of the LDS is a Christian. I suspect that both “protestants” and RCs can agree on this much?

Mormons don’t have valid baptism and as such are not Christian.

That being said, you can’t become unbaptized. The change is ontological. The baptized Christian who later rejects the faith is still a Christian in the same way that a runaway child is still a member of their family.

 

[AMDGtoo]

The Youth Minister at my Catholic parish would often (in the spirit of ecumenism) have ministers or leaders of different religions talk to the youth, yet he would note that the LDS (along with the JWs) are simply psuedo-Christians.

 

[Frank_Cox]

Assemblies of God started in 1914 and they’re Protestant.

They may be called such but they are not. The word Protestant was given to those who protested the RCC by the RCC. The A of God protested against other Pentecostals.

Baptists are Protestants.

No they are not. Up until 1881 even the Southern Baptist did not call themselves Protestants, now they do. I am a Baptist but no way a Protestant. If you think about it the Protestants were reformed Catholics, hence the term, the Reformation. It was the hope of the reformers to bring and end to the abuses of the RCC, but were forced to leave it. There were always groups outside of the RCC and they went by many names but were joined by a common belief in the authority of scripture, the baptism {immersion} of the believer as a sacrament and not for salvation ,Holy Communion {not the Eucharist and transfiguration} , the Priesthood of the believer and individual soul liberty. Of course they were slaughtered by the RCC from centuries.
These people were hopeful that the Protestants would be their allies but Calvin drowned them by the thousands and all the Protestants murdered them. Remember a Protestant is a reformed Catholic.so they did as mother church did and murdered anyone who rejected infant baptism. Calvin named them AnaBaptist, those that re-baptize as to they did not recognize pedobaptism and required believers baptism to join them.

The Baptist were named by those that killed them after the Reformation , the Protestants. It is like calling Jews Nazi’s to call a Baptist a Protestant although many Baptists even are too ignorant of history to know that.

Every Catholic is a Christian.

No they are not, neither is every Protestant , Baptist or Pentecostal. Please read the Bible, being the member of a church is not salvation,. Spending an hour a week in a chicken house does not make you a chicken.

Outside the Church there is no salvation.

If you want to believe the fairy tale that the Roman Church which did not exist before the 4th century was entrusted with God’s power that is your prerogative. From the Bibles point of view the present Pope is a heretic because He denies the creator Jesus Christ . It comes down to who you authority is, God or man. There is no mention of a Roman church in the Bible nor any where does it claim Peter was the Bishop of Rome or for that matter ever went there.

From Rome Paul’s last letter is written (the Second Epistle to Timothy). He says, ‘At my first answer no man stood with me, but all men forsook me’ (2 Timothy 4:16). So that if Peter were Bishop of Rome he enjoyed an immunity which was not accorded to Paul, and is guilty of having forsaken the great apostle.

And, finally, in this very Epistle, written from Rome immediately before his martyrdom, Paul says, 'Only Luke is with me' (2 Timothy 4:11). This is conclusive.

"So Paul had written to Rome, he had been in Rome, and at the end he writes from Rome, and not only never once mentions Peter, but declares, 'Only Luke is with me.'"

While it is possible that Peter visited Rome briefly at some point, the biblical record testifies conclusively that he was not the bishop of the church at Rome.

I have no more reason to care what the RCC claims than what the Muslims , Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses or the Moonies do. If it does not square with God’s word it is a lie.

I am a Bible believing Christian.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

That makes being a Catholic impossible for me . One has to denounce scripture. To denounce the written word is to denounce the Living Word.

Luk 4:4 And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.