Are Lutherans next? Lutherans seek full communion with Catholic Church

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which branch of Lutherans…?
Missouri Synod/ I highly doubt it.:rolleyes:
 
broadsword said:
which branch of Lutherans…?
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That was my question too. The most conservative branches of the Lutheran church in the US tend to have stronger traditions of anti-Catholicism. But I suppose persons leaving the more liberal wing of the Lutherans would make sense - they would have greater discomfort. I don’t know enough about the particulars of ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, by far the largest Lutheran group in the US) vs LCMS (Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) to know how common it is to jump from one to the other. I would think this would more common than jumping from the moderate ELCA to the Catholic Church.

I’m disappointed that the article wasn’t able to give us a clearer picture of how large the shift from Lutheran to Catholic is. It only mentions two examples of priests who had been Lutheran ministers, and an Lutheran Catholic church structure which is working with the Holy See to cross the Tiber. However, there are only 13 individual churches in that Lutheran Catholic organization. Certainly its a start, but it doesn’t convince me that the movement from Lutheran to Catholic is particularly sizable.

Perhaps information on the size of Lutheran to Catholic conversion is hard to find. A quickie Google search doesn’t yield relevant information. 🤷
 
Dale_M said:
That was my question too. The most conservative branches of the Lutheran church in the US tend to have stronger traditions of anti-Catholicism. But I suppose persons leaving the more liberal wing of the Lutherans would make sense - they would have greater discomfort. I don’t know enough about the particulars of ELCA (Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, by far the largest Lutheran group in the US) vs LCMS (Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod) to know how common it is to jump from one to the other. I would think this would more common than jumping from the moderate ELCA to the Catholic Church.

I’m disappointed that the article wasn’t able to give us a clearer picture of how large the shift from Lutheran to Catholic is. It only mentions two examples of priests who had been Lutheran ministers, and an Lutheran Catholic church structure which is working with the Holy See to cross the Tiber. However, there are only 13 individual churches in that Lutheran Catholic organization. Certainly its a start, but it doesn’t convince me that the movement from Lutheran to Catholic is particularly sizable.

Perhaps information on the size of Lutheran to Catholic conversion is hard to find. A quickie Google search doesn’t yield relevant information. 🤷
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I agree, this doesn’t seem to be a “particularly sizable” Lutheran population, but hey, it might be a starting point. I am wondering if the Anglicans helped to “open the door”?:hmmm:
 
broadsword said:
which branch of Lutherans…?
Missouri Synod/ I highly doubt it.:rolleyes:
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I agree that the Missouri Synod probably would not be included. From those that I’ve known, they don’t even let other Lutherans partake of Communion in their Missouri Synod churches.
 
Not only do the Lutheran churches I’m familiar with have married pastors but they also have female pastors. A little bigger issue for the Church to resolve than the Anglicans if they do convert to Catholicism.
 
The Anglo-Lutheran Catholic Church has already made great steps toward unity … and are there in all but officialness. See: anglolutherancatholic.org/

In particular look at the FAQ for lay people which states (in brief)

*The ALCC accepts The Catechism of the Catholic Church and all other documents of the Magisterium of the Roman Catholic Church as its ultimate standard of Faith, Order, Tradition, and Spirituality. It believes and teaches nothing contrary to the Catholic Magisterium. All clergy and postulants for ordination are required to sign the Roman Catholic Mandatum, and may not preach, teach, write, or publish anything contrary to the Roman Catholic Magisterium.

The ALCC has accepted Papal Primacy and Papal Infallibility. Though it is not legally under Papal control at this time, it acts as if it was, and is actively working toward visible, corporate reunion with the Roman Catholic Church. The ALCC also operates under Roman Catholic Canon Law to the greatest extent practical in matters not covered by its own Canon Law Code.

The ALCC agrees with the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings about Holy Communion (the Holy Eucharist or the Mass.) When consecrated by a priest, the bread and wine actually become the Body and Blood of Christ while retaining the outward appearance of bread and wine. This is called “the Miracle of the Mass.” The technical term for this miracle is Transubstantiation. The ALCC rejects all Protestant Eucharistic theologies.

Then why doesn’t the ALCC simply join the Roman Catholic Church? The ALCC is actively working on just that, and is making excellent progress toward that goal. But this takes time. Visible, corporate union with the Roman Catholic Church in whatever form is deemed appropriate by the Pope, bringing along as many other Lutherans and Lutheran Churches as possible along with it is the ALCC’s apostolate and goal.
*

All I can say is WOW! 👍

Its happening!

God bless

Tony
 
Would it be great if the Lutherans came back into the Catholic Church fold? I was supposed to be Lutheran, myself. I was baptized Lutheran. Was supposed to be raised Lutheran yet at age 6 (summer of 1972)-my parents had a big fight over what religion to raise us and it was decided-girls-catholic, boys-lutheran. So my sister and I are Catholic and my brothers are Lutheran. I remember going to sunday school and summer bible camp and had fun, too yet my mom, who was going to convert to Lutheran decided to stay Catholic so that is how I ended up Catholic. My brothers went to church with dad while I didn’t, although we all went to Catholic school. I made my first communion and confirmation, along with first confession all by age 9. When I married invalidly to my husband-now my ex-husband in my dad’s Lutheran Church (my ex is baptist), I switched to the Baptist faith to not confuse our future children yet have switched back five years ago to my Catholic faith three years after my divorce. My kids are all Catholic and ironically, my strict Baptist mother-in-law switched back to Catholic. I never knew that she was also from a Catholic background-strange but true. I know that it would take a miracle for all the Christian denomination to fall back under the one true church yet from my experiences, we seem to have a lot more in common than we realize-as is the case with my former mother-in-law. I definitely pray that one day, we Christians will unite and fall back under the one umbrella and not be divided like is happening the last five hundred years. I love the Catholic faith yet being former Lutheran (does that count?) and Baptist, I have a little problem with the limbo and purgutory topics-I believe in it yet the Baptist in me (my baptist experience) is doubting that-I am going through a little bit of a struggle yet am very open in faith with what the chruch (Catholic) teaches on that. I do go to mass and confessionals and try to live my faith the best I can-:signofcross:
 
Understandably because the ELCA allows women’s ordination, gay ordination, and is sympathetic to abortion, gay marriage, and all sorts of other idiocy. In the Catholic Church Catholics deny outsiders communion on the basis of the Eucharist being not only the body of Christ but a sign of unity of doctrine and theology. The same goes for the Lutherans. They feel as strongly on their end. Closed communion makes sense to them just as it does to Catholics.
pigtown said:
I agree that the Missouri Synod probably would not be included. From those that I’ve known, they don’t even let other Lutherans partake of Communion in their Missouri Synod churches.
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We haven’t seen any data, any hard numbers as to how many Anglicans have come over to Catholicism. Folks in CAF are rejoicing over the supposed torrents of Anglicans leaving their communion for Catholicism but I’ve heard of very few cases of actual converts and in my area the ordinariates were laughed at by Anglicans and quickly dismissed. The Anglo-Catholics, who are a minority these days, especially in the States, would be more likely to swim the Tiber than the rest. I see little evidence of a mass exodus of Anglicans to Catholicism and I don’t see any indicator that Lutherans are chomping at the bit to bolt either?
 
I don’t understand how they could gain full communion with the Catholic Church. Don’t they teach the false doctrine of consubstantiation?
 
Lutherans by and large do not like the term consubstantiation, at least many I read about and speak with. They believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist but do not seek to explain HOW the presence is made manifest. Catholics choose to explain it exactly with transubstantiation, an Aristotlean approach.
Holly3278 said:
I don’t understand how they could gain full communion with the Catholic Church. Don’t they teach the false doctrine of consubstantiation?
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
Lutherans by and large do not like the term consubstantiation, at least many I read about and speak with. They believe in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist but do not seek to explain HOW the presence is made manifest. Catholics choose to explain it exactly with transubstantiation, an Aristotlean approach.
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Although I agree with you that Lutherans may be a bit vague about how Christ is present in the Eucharist, what I recall from my ALC (moderate to conservative, prior to the merging into the ELCA) confirmation class (in the 1970s) is that Christ is present, alongside the material elements of bread and/or wine. Consubstantiation (official doctrine) was specifically contrasted with the Catholic Church’s view of transubstantiation.
 
I would also characterize their view as consubstantiation but they usually don’t like the moniker themselves. I’ve been told many times that Lutherans don’t subscribe to that terminology. But I agree that their language that Christ exists “in and under” or “alongside” the elements of bread and wine is a euphamism for consubstantiation. I know that many Lutherans in here like JonNC are better suited to explain it and I know Jon has commented on occasion that he is perfectly open to Transubstantiation as a perfectly plausible mode of Eucharistic presence.
Dale_M said:
Although I agree with you that Lutherans may be a bit vague about how Christ is present in the Eucharist, what I recall from my ALC (moderate to conservative, prior to the merging into the ELCA) confirmation class (in the 1970s) is that Christ is present, alongside the material elements of bread and/or wine. Consubstantiation (official doctrine) was specifically contrasted with the Catholic Church’s view of transubstantiation.
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After checking the link, this is a small group of Lutherans who want to enter the Catholic Church as a “corporate entity”, like the TAC. Good for them. Their beliefs are not in line with other Lutheran denominations. The LCMS and the ELCA won’t be joining the Catholic Church anytime soon.
 
The wikipedia page (never a reliable source of information) for the ALCC states that they formed in 1997 in a split from Missouri Synod Lutherans.
 
Oh come on. Wikipedia is by no means as bad as you paint it. There’s some great stuff there and usually it’s reliable. Come on…
1holycatholic said:
The wikipedia page (never a reliable source of information) for the ALCC states that they formed in 1997 in a split from Missouri Synod Lutherans.
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gurneyhalleck1 said:
Oh come on. Wikipedia is by no means as bad as you paint it. There’s some great stuff there and usually it’s reliable. Come on…
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Somewhere in the midst of the official ALCC pages, or perhaps it was at the pages of one of the diocese or parishes, the actually refer back to the wikipedia article, so I would say it was pretty much spot on.

What I am curious about is whether or not it would be licit for a Catholic (Roman/ Byzantine) to attend their services and/ or to receive communion. My guess would be no, but its gotta be no by a very narrow gap!

God bless

Tony
 
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