“Better to believe” includes those investigating, isn’t it? They better believe …
Wow! Now the commission was formed “on the request of the bishops of Bosnia and Herzegovina”. It is no longer a Vatican initiative “to deter” the local bishop as you claimed earlier.
Yes, the decision of the new commission is still pending … but that is a decision you will not accept because the “events are still on-going”.
You are contradicting yourself. The decision of the local bishop may not be valid (according to you) because the events are on-going.
In other words, you believe the Vatican is wasting time and resources trying to do something that is currently impossible.
No, the Vatican did not remain silent. It sided with the “various bishops” but you are wishing that “small detail” away.
He said the event can not be said to be supernatural. And bishop Ratko Peric stated that that there are “well publicized disorders and evidence that sufficiently disprove the supposedly supernatural nature” of the visions. Was he making things up and falsely claiming they were “well publicized”?
This statement is not to be taken in the context of divine revelation and soteriology, but should be understood as it is qualified to mean. It answers the question of one of the visionaries: “Are all religions good?”
In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them.
I’m afraid there is no doctrinal contradiction in this message.
No, the questions was: “Is the Blessed Mother calling all people on earth to be Catholic?”
I hope you are not just trying to be funny … rejecting the “fallible” statements of one bishop, but heeding the “fallible” advice of another bishop. You may not know it, but the pope is a bishop too and Pope Urban VIII’s advice you referred to is not “infallible”.
Why then is Elizabeth called the cousin of Mary? What WAS she to her, if cousins are called brothers/sisters? Then what are those who ARE called cousins?
I DO like this story of Alexander the Great! My son’s name is Alexander (although, in Spanish).But it reminds me of an episode in the life of Alexander the Great. After a major battle, Alexander was visiting his wounded men.
Coming upon a man with no visible wounds on him, Alexander asked him what was wrong with him that he was among the wounded.
The man said, “I am afraid of battle . . .”
Alexander then asked him his name, to which the visibly shaking soldier responded, “Alexander, Your Majesty . . .”
“Oh,” said Alexander the Great. “You have the same name as I do. Well, then, either change your behaviour . . . or else change your name!!”
(I feel so blessed to be able to relate this story here . . . yes, I need to get a life . . .)
Alex
A relative. The brothers and sisters of Jesus are male and female relatives who may include cousins.Why then is Elizabeth called the cousin of Mary? What WAS she to her, if cousins are called brothers/sisters? Then what are those who ARE called cousins?
Alexander is from the Greek meaning “benefactor of mankind”.
So what happened, did he change his name or go to battle?
Alexander waged war, but he felt his intentions were good for civilization.So what happened, did he change his name or go to battle?
How can this be proved? Because, according to the book of Esther, Mordechai IS her cousin (Mordechai’s uncle’s daughter).
It would be proved that Mary was not a perpetual virgin if there was a verse in Scripture–any verse–that said that there were “sons of Mary” or “daughters of Mary.”How can this be proved? Because, according to the book of Esther, Mordechai IS her cousin (Mordechai’s uncle’s daughter).
Actually, as it was written, the word is “kinswoman”, not cousin.
So the connection of “kin” becomes Aaron and Levite, no? So, there’s a few connections happening here, not only with St. Elizabeth but then too Zacharia, and of course St Joseph with King David and Matthew-1, Marys mother St Anne etc.
Indeed.
Mary was a Jew, not a Greek, so when the angel Gabriel spoke to her, he would have used her native language, which was Aramaic. Thus the word he used would have been “kinswoman” or “relative”, for there is no word for cousin in Aramaic or Hebrew. The truth is we are uncertain of how Mary and Elizabeth related to each other. Some Bible versions have the word “cousin” translated instead of “kinswoman” or “relative”, but the translation is improper given the fact we do not know for sure whether Mary and Elizabeth were cousins and that the angel Gabriel couldn’t have used a word for cousin while speaking to Mary in Aramaic. The original copy of the text probably read “kinswoman”. And as it most likely did, the word kinswoman could be referring to Mary and Elizabeth as belonging to a kindred tribe. In the Douay Rheims Bible and the KJV we read that Eleazer’s daughters married their “brethren”, who were actually their cousins (1 Chron 23: 21-22). The New American Bible has “kinsmen”; the New Living Translation has “cousins”.How can this be proved? Because, according to the book of Esther, Mordechai IS her cousin (Mordechai’s uncle’s daughter).
93.7% of all statistics are made up…
Ten quick points.
1. Mary receives considerable attention, of course, in the nativity scriptures and at the time of the crucifixion. Otherwise she is rarely mentioned in scripture.
2. Her role when Jesus was 12 raises questions. I know the traditional response which sounds weak to me, as I am still amazed that Mary and Joseph didn't notice the absence of Jesus for a whole day after they had left Jerusalem. Then, alas, it took them three days to find him - in the temple! - after they returned to that city. At that point, they scolded Jesus and he seemed to scold them in response.
3. On the two occasions when Mary is mentioned between that event and the crucifixion, Jesus seems a bit dismissive of her. Re-read Matt. 12:46-50 and John 2:4. In both instances one would have thought he would have encouraged those present to venerate his mother, but, instead, he behaves as though she is somehow an interloper, certainly not that central to his message certainly. Woman, what have I to do with you? And, who is my mother? Etc.
4. Mary his mother apparently did not come to the tomb on that first Easter morning, Jesus didn't seem to appear to her after his resurrection as he did to others.
5. While Mary is mentioned once in passing in Acts, the Pauline and other epistles do not mention her even once. You would think that if she was supposed to be so central in church doctrine and ritual that all these instructions sent to early Christians would have at least made mention of her.
6. The passage in Revelation which the Church interprets as referring to Mary is questionable (at least in my mind). It could/should have been much clearer.
7. A key verse challenging (again, in my mind) the perpetual virginity of Mary is Matt. 1:24. Most translations suggest that after the birth of Jesus Mary and Joseph lived the life of a husband and wife, including marital relations. To me that makes them normal and presents no problem. How could one possibly object to this intimacy? I find the effort to link virginity to purity absurd. Is there anyone purer than a devoted, loving mother or father?
8. The references to the brothers of Jesus need to be taken into consideration. Could they have been cousins? Maybe. But maybe they were brothers. Fine, if so.
9. I taught mythology on the college level awhile back, and the virgin cult was strong in the pagan world of that time. The myths of Isis, Cybele and others were strong. It makes sense that influences from these competing mystery religions could have had an impact.
10. Regardless, all Christians should and do honor Mary. The Bible does say that she is 'blessed among women' and that 'henceforth all generations will call me blessed". The Protestants may have gone too far in downplaying her, but I wonder if Catholicism hasn't gone too far in the opposite direction. When I attend Mass, and when I am present as the Rosary is recited, it always strikes me that Mary is treated like a goddess who exercises enormous power over Christ. Going 'through Mary' seems to be a major cornerstone of Catholicism. Add to this the power attributed to dozens, even hundreds of saints, and Catholicism can come close to resembling Hinduism (I spent time in India), with its many demigods and goddesses important in spiritual scheme of things.
Yet, millions find comfort and meaning in all this, so fine. No problem. I'm simply pointing out some of the reasons why Mariology has distanced me from traditional Catholicism. It would be so much easier to be a believing Catholic if more freedom of belief were permitted instead of the insistence upon accepting each and every doctrine and dogma. This smacks of authoritarianism that many of us reject, My guess is that advanced education plus the evolution of democracy have played a major role in all this.
God bless everybody. If your faith leads you to worship God and live in love and charity with others, go for it. Someday we'll know the full truth which, I suggest, the human brain simply would/could not comprehend until the world beyond. Probably none of us, and no church, have come close to that truth here because of our finite minds. I suggest more humility and less tribal arrogance which stems from man's innate sinful nature, leading us to view our opinions and our clan as superior to all others.it would be interesting to hear from anybody at all, Catholic or protestant who believe that the Marian dogmas are un biblical. i myself, do not see them as such. when a side by side comparison is made between Mary and the Ark of the Covenant. there is a very strong parallel. when we read o.t. accounts, about solomon for example, and bathsheba( the queen mother, who had her sons ear) there seems to be a deeper meaning pointing to another Mother and Her Son, and how She would intercede to Him on our behalf. just a few examples. feel free to come up with your own. its wide open. the immaculate conception, the virgin birth, the assumption into heaven. all of it. peace to all of us, and may this be a friendly discussion.
I agree with you- I see Mary throughout the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation. There are too many examples to list! And as I grow in faith, I see more & more parallels & examples in the Bible.