Are masses run by the SSPX acceptable?

[pnewton]

I wasn’t able to find Him in the NO Parishes, pnewton.

Nonetheless, He was there, present as really as he is in any SSPX chapel. I guess that is why your comment surprised me. I understand not being able to come to an understanding of this reality because of the obstacles you had. I would hope once you understand the reality of the presence of Christ, you would see that our faith is greatest in an absence of seeing and feeling. I am all for make it easier for people to have their faith propped up up external senses. After all, that is why we have Sacraments. However, we are sometimes called to transcend our feelings and just believe.

 

[pnewton]

After having read this article, “Holier Than Thou”, it seems to me that these SSPX types are more like Protestants than they think… leaving Rome for what they claim is the “true church”… umm I’m pretty certain Luther and Calvin thought something similar.

That is an excellent article on how we got where we are today. However, I would caution against making it more than it is. Note that the article is six years old and a lot has happened since then. Also, the history it records ends in 1988. It is a good cautionary tale, but it can not reflect the current members of the SSPX and their attitudes, much less the rank and file of lay supporters.

 

[JustaServant]

Every sexual sin I confessed to the NO Priests were mocked as old-fashioned (I could count on one hand how many Priests in 10 years of NO life actually took me seriously in this aspect), and that “pretty soon” those types of transgressions won’t be transgressions at all. No, I was dying and many of the Priests were eager to convince me I was not sinning at all.

Not calling you a liar, but I find this VERY hard to believe.

 

[maurin]

Nonetheless, He was there, present as really as he is in any SSPX chapel. I guess that is why your comment surprised me. I understand not being able to come to an understanding of this reality because of the obstacles you had. I would hope once you understand the reality of the presence of Christ, you would see that our faith is greatest in an absence of seeing and feeling. I am all for make it easier for people to have their faith propped up up external senses. After all, that is why we have Sacraments. However, we are sometimes called to transcend our feelings and just believe.

I guess after so many years of spiraling down I decided why fumble around in the dark when God–and His Church–has provided a one million watt light bulb. And of course that bulb is not only the SSPX. The problem is, the SSPX is the only light in the darkness of this particular Diocese.

When my circumstances require me to move again, which they just might, to a different state or Diocese, I will seek out another SSPX Chapel. With direct experience with 4 different SSPX Priests at Mass and in the Confessional in 2 different States and three different Chapels, I have found nothing but consistency in Teaching and advice–and deep concern for my battles. And these are Priests who travel hundreds, and some even thousands of miles each week, far from their own home bases, to care for souls. Talk about being spread too thin…

My direct experience with many many NO Priests is the opposite–conflicting teachings and advice, although as I said, truly Good Priests could be found, but were few and far in between.

I have no experience with the Priests of the FSSP because, as their District Superior told me by letter, they have not been invited into this Diocese, and have no plans to be present in this Diocese (as of last fall when we were in contact).

 

[maurin]

Not calling you a liar, but I find this VERY hard to believe.

Because you don’t want to believe it. I didn’t either. The NO Church truly is a brave new world, isn’t it JustaServant? Mr. Huxley is either laughing or crying–I’m not sure which.

 

[JustaServant]

Because you don’t want to believe it. I didn’t either. The NO Church truly is a brave new world, isn’t it JustaServant? Mr. Huxley is either laughing or crying–I’m not sure which.

I was gone from the Church for twenty years. When my wife and daughter decided to convert. I did indeed pray that we would find a church with a faithful priest, as I know their are many jerks out there in priests garb. In fact their are several good priests in this area, and I live in an area where Catholics are a minority. Perhaps its geographic. I see you live in Palm Beach. I just find it hard to believe that every priest you went to, in a confession booth, told you this. I think you could be exaggerating. You’ve gone to EVERY priest in Palm Beach and the surrounding area?
I prefer a TLM (even though I did not grow up with it), would like to attend one (have none in this area), so what are my options? Sit at home Sunday mornings? There are reverant OF Masses in this town. It is still the Body and Blood of Christ, it is still a Sacrifice. That is why I attend, not to be around people who think like me.
If I wanted that, I might as well go back to being a fundamentalist, because that is how they think. The desire for purity is a good thing. But it starts on the inside. When I confess my sin (and I’m sure there is a priest who will give absolution), pray the Rosary, recieve the Eucharist, and keep from sinning.
Its hard work, but it depends on ME, not on the spirituallity of someone else.

 

[maurin]

I think you could be exaggerating. .

and I think–actually you’ve proved (or is it ‘you’ve proven’? anyhow, you certainly have exhibited)–that you didn’t read what I wrote very carefully. If you had, you wouldn’t be saying such things.

So really, at the end of the day, JustaServant, you are calling me a liar. How sweet. Thank you.

 

[Walking_Home]

I was gone from the Church for twenty years. When my wife and daughter decided to convert. I did indeed pray that we would find a church with a faithful priest, as I know their are many jerks out there in priests garb. In fact their are several good priests in this area, and I live in an area where Catholics are a minority. Perhaps its geographic. I see you live in Palm Beach. I just find it hard to believe that every priest you went to, in a confession booth, told you this. I think you could be exaggerating. You’ve gone to EVERY priest in Palm Beach and the surrounding area?
I prefer a TLM (even though I did not grow up with it), would like to attend one (have none in this area), so what are my options? Sit at home Sunday mornings? There are reverant OF Masses in this town. It is still the Body and Blood of Christ, it is still a Sacrifice. That is why I attend, not to be around people who think like me.
If I wanted that, I might as well go back to being a fundamentalist, because that is how they think. The desire for purity is a good thing. But it starts on the inside. When I confess my sin (and I’m sure there is a priest who will give absolution), pray the Rosary, recieve the Eucharist, and keep from sinning.
Its hard work, but it depends on ME, not on the spirituallity of someone else.

---

What I know maurin —I’ve learned via his participation in these forums. To me he is a man of character – willing to acknowledge also his failures and make amends. So this tells me he is not the type of person to go about “exaggerating” his experiences.

 

[PaulinVA]

I have no desire to be in Communion with the modernists, Paul, you are correct. Why do you?

AAARGH!

I am in communion with the Church.

I practice NFP, I go regularly to confession, I pray the rosary daily, I do not subscribe to the modernist heresy.

I am what would be described by others as a conservative devout Catholic.

 

[Seamus_L]

How come no one ever seems to ask the question “Is it acceptable to attend mass at a church where a priest openly rejects the Church’s teaching,” Or should our attitude be that if his bishop hasen’t crackdowned on him, then everything is ok.
Sad that people should be so concerned with the alleged dangers of the SSPX, while we have priests in good standing who are pro-homosexual, support the ordination of women, show there support for pro-abortion candidates and pretty much consider the Church's teachings to be outdated nonsense.

 

[pnewton]

How come no one ever seems to ask the question “Is it acceptable to attend mass at a church where a priest openly rejects the Church’s teaching,” Or should our attitude be that if his bishop hasen’t crackdowned on him, then everything is ok.

I have seen that question before. If you want to start a thread on these other topics, go ahead. That is not the question here.

 

[maurin]

AAARGH!

I am in communion with the Church.

I practice NFP, I go regularly to confession, I pray the rosary daily, I do not subscribe to the modernist heresy.

I am what would be described by others as a conservative devout Catholic.

what are you conserving Paul?

 

[maurin]

I have seen that question before. If you want to start a thread on these other topics, go ahead. That is not the question here.

actually, pnewton, I disagree. I think it is a perfectly fair question to ask, and is the flip-side of the question asked by the OP.

 

[Josh_Elzner]

I have no desire to be in Communion with the modernists, Paul, you are correct. Why do you?

Will you please define modernism for me? I am definitely not trying to attack you guys, but from all that I have read about Lefebvre and the SSPX, they are outside of the Church.

Do you define modernism as the NO Mass? Please define it so that we can proceed on what indeed you reject.

 

[PaulinVA]

what are you conserving Paul?

Heh, heh.

I believe you have mistaken conservative for conservationist. A conservationist normally is interested in conserving natural resources.

To that end, this post was created with 100% recycled bits and transmitted using excess bandwidth not being used at the time.

 

[maurin]

Heh, heh.

I believe you have mistaken conservative for conservationist. A conservationist normally is interested in conserving natural resources.

To that end, this post was created with 100% recycled bits and transmitted using excess bandwidth not being used at the time.

ok, so now that you’ve done with that, what are you conserving, Paul? Because a conservative wants to conserve the status quo, a progressive wants to go past the status quo, and a reactionary wants to go back to the way things were. So Paul, what is it you want to conserve?

 

[maurin]

Will you please define modernism for me? I am definitely not trying to attack you guys, but from all that I have read about Lefebvre and the SSPX, they are outside of the Church.

Do you define modernism as the NO Mass? Please define it so that we can proceed on what indeed you reject.

Josh, you can read “Pascendi Domenici Gregis” an encyclical “On Modernism” by Pope Saint Pius X. If you have a few bucks to spend you can order from Tan Books “A Catechism of Modernism” which is basically a question and answer format of the encyclical.

 

[Josh_Elzner]

Quote John Paull II declaring that a schism exists please. We are looking for the truth. If you are going to make a claim such as “his Predecessor said so,” please provide the precise quote.

Understanding the language of the Church on what “full communion” means:

The unlawful episcopal ordinations have “frustrated all the efforts made during the previous years to ensure the full communion with the Church of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X”.

“In itself, this act was one of *disobedience to the Roman Pontiff *in a very grave matter and of supreme importance for the unity of the church, such as is the ordination of bishops whereby the apostolic succession is sacramentally perpetuated. Hence such disobedience - which implies in practice the rejection of the Roman primacy - constitutes a schismatic act.(3) In performing such an act, notwithstanding the formal canonical warning sent to them by the Cardinal Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops on 17 June last, Mons. Lefebvre and the priests Bernard Fellay, Bernard Tissier de Mallerais, Richard Williamson and Alfonso de Galarreta, have incurred the grave penalty of excommunication envisaged by ecclesiastical law”.

/www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_commissions/ecclsdei/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html

How does a schismatic act followed by excommunication not mean schism, when the unity of the Church and Roman Primacy is directly indicated as well. The Holy Father makes it clear that this greives him.

“With great affliction the Church has learned of the unlawful episcopal ordination”.

“It is impossible to remain faithful to the Tradition while breaking the ecclesial bond with him to whom, in the person of the Apostle Peter, Christ himself entrusted the ministry of unity in his Church.”

He calls the ordinations a “sad event”.

• "I wish especially to make an appeal both solemn and heartfelt, paternal and fraternal, to all those who until now have been linked in various ways to the movement of Archbishop Lefebvre, that they may fulfil the grave duty of remaining united to the Vicar of Christ in the unity of the Catholic Church, and of ceasing their support in any way for that movement. "*

He is warning those who are affiliated with the movement of Lefebvre to cease their support. Why would he do this if the Society was still in good standing with the Church?

 

[Josh_Elzner]

Here is a quote from the Note on The Excommunication of the Followers of Abp. Lefebvre by the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legal Texts:

“As long as there are no changes which may lead to the re-establishment of this necessary communion, the whole Lefebvrian movement is to be held schismatic, in view of the existence of a formal declaration by the Supreme Authority on this matter.”

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1224

 

[maurin]

Here is a quote from the Note on The Excommunication of the Followers of Abp. Lefebvre by the Pontifical Council for the Interpretation of Legal Texts:

“As long as there are no changes which may lead to the re-establishment of this necessary communion, the whole Lefebvrian movement is to be held schismatic, in view of the existence of a formal declaration by the Supreme Authority on this matter.”

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=1224

Have you written Pope Benedict XVI with your find and admonish him, because frankly friend, he certainly does not realize that your interpretation is correct and his is wrong.