Are men threatened by the "Feminization" of the Liturgy?

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OhioBob

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I have read countless posts on these forums asserting that including women in approved liturgical roles (as readers, servers, extraordinary ministers of holy communion, etc.) somehow makes men feel unwelcome, uninvolved or unwanted in the liturgical celebration and results in men abandoning any vocational thoughts they might have.

As a Catholic man, this is a rather insulting assertion. It presumes that a man’s faith is so weak, his Catholic self-esteem so low, and his opinion of the priesthood so shallow as to be affected by the mere presence of women.

I was wondering how others (women and men) saw the issue. And please don’t turn this into a rant thread about liturgical abuses or papal/episcopal leadership. I am speaking about women in liturgical roles approved for lay men OR women by the Church.

It doesn’t seem that women were put off by the presence of men in non-ordained roles over the past couple thousand years. Why would men be different? Are we so weak and faithless?

Or maybe women have cooties? 😉
 
Not feminization of the liturgy specifically but more feminization of the Church in general and I wouldn’t say threatened either.
The Church since… oh maybe the seventies has become increasingly feminized and I think it has caused some men to see the church as a woman’s thing. Not because they are threatened but see it like a Tupperware party or something. Many men don’t see church as a manly thing anymore.
I am often the only man at things like prayer groups, RCIA, Bible study etc…
 
I couldn’t vote because none of your options fit my answer. The “roles” of the liturgy have traditionally been viewed and used as an entry point to the priesthood. In fact, the current regulations of the Church require that males be given preference to the roles of altar server and, I think, extraordinary minister of Communion because of this. I do not feel “threatened” by the roles that women have been granted.
 
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Poisson:
Not feminization of the liturgy specifically but more feminization of the Church in general and I wouldn’t say threatened either.
The Church since… oh maybe the seventies has become increasingly feminized and I think it has caused some men to see the church as a woman’s thing. Not because they are threatened but see it like a Tupperware party or something. Many men don’t see church as a manly thing anymore.
I am often the only man at things like prayer groups, RCIA, Bible study etc…
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For me, that’s the “chicken or the egg” question. Are there more women involved because the men are more poorly catechised, weaker in faith, etc? Or do men stop attending because there are too many women there?

Mark Shea writes about the differences between Catholics and Evangelical Protestants in the way their prayer and worship “language” has developed. He speaks of the protestant “language” as more masculine (dynamic, militaristic) and the Catholic “language” as more feminine (sacred, emotional, effusive).

I always thought there was truth in his characterization and that might explain why some men seem less involved in Catholic worship.

Blessings.
 
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theMutant:
I couldn’t vote because none of your options fit my answer. The “roles” of the liturgy have traditionally been viewed and used as an entry point to the priesthood. In fact, the current regulations of the Church require that males be given preference to the roles of altar server and, I think, extraordinary minister of Communion because of this. I do not feel “threatened” by the roles that women have been granted.
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The emotion I pick up in some of the threads isn’t just that women have elbowed men out of the preparatory stages of ordination (like serving) but that their presence actually makes men feel less welcome or less involved in the liturgy.

That’s what I wanted to check on with this poll.

I don’t feel threatened, and it doesn’t seem that you do either. Good for us. 👍

ps: I read citations on another thread that indicated that reader and EMHC roles are open equally to men and women without priority given to either one. However, I think you are right that the Church prefers that altar servers be male as a path to ordination, although girls are permitted in the US at the bishop’s discretion.

Blessings.
 
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OhioBob:
For me, that’s the “chicken or the egg” question. Are there more women involved because the men are more poorly catechised, weaker in faith, etc? Or do men stop attending because there are too many women there?

Mark Shea writes about the differences between Catholics and Evangelical Protestants in the way their prayer and worship “language” has developed. He speaks of the protestant “language” as more masculine (dynamic, militaristic) and the Catholic “language” as more feminine (sacred, emotional, effusive).

I always thought there was truth in his characterization and that might explain why some men seem less involved in Catholic worship.
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I agree with Mark as well. I see the more feminine language in other areas besides the liturgy. Every RCIA program I can find seems to deal with feelings more that facts and truth. I can see how a man would not find this particularly appealing. After my first year as an RCIA sponsor I thought that if I was the one going throught the program I would never have become Catholic based on that program.
I truly believe that there is a male and a female spirituality and the male spirituality has been neglected in our Church since Vatican II and it’s something that was never intended by that council. Another casualty of “the spirit of Vatical II”
 
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Poisson:
I truly believe that there is a male and a female spirituality and the male spirituality has been neglected in our Church since Vatican II and it’s something that was never intended by that council. Another casualty of “the spirit of Vatical II”
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You get no argument from me on that. :amen:
 
The poll and the title ask different things.

Women in Approved Liturgical Roles - no problem, no fears, nothing to be alarmed at.

Political Correctness in the Church, including inclusionary text, distorting the language in RCIA and other religious activities, songs, etc. - A big problem. Not approved. Not good for men. Not good for women. Not good the Church. We need to root this infection within the Church out as quickly as we can.
 
I chose not to answer the poll because I don’t believe any of the choices offered accurately reflect the current state of the Church in America. I don’t think men feel so much threatened by the excessive amount of feminization both in the Church and in society at large but that they are turned off by it. Is it not true that radical feminists and metrosexuals determine what men gain admission to many seminaries? (Read *Goodbye, Good *Men) We then wonder why we end up with homosexual priests abusing teenage boys. What is the point of altar girls or the unnecessary use of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, if not to lessen the significance of the male priesthood? Weren’t these measures instituted to pave the way for empowering bitter women to become “equal” to men by being ordained priests? Just as women can be ministers in Protestant churches. The Church doesn’t need priestesses or effeminate priests to act as spiritual “fathers.” The Church needs real men like St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, St. Louis IX, and Pope St. Pius X who are willing to sacrifice their lives to carry on the work of Our Lord and the apostles.
 
i can’t imagine any informed male being too concerned, but at the same time i don’t see any need in the feminazation of the liturgy.

maybe it’s different where you go to church, but to my knowledge this is not an issue… if it was i’m sure we would have taken care of her by now… 😃 sorry, i just had to seize the opportunity…

seriously, i hope it’s not an issue… i personally don’t care to change what isn’t broken where liturgy is concerned… what do you think?
 
T.A.Stobie:
The poll and the title ask different things.
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You’re right about that. Sorry. I tried a longer question but it was too many characters. I should have asked if men were threatened by women in approved liturgical roles.

Next time I will choose my words better.

Blessings.
 
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larryo:
I chose not to answer the poll because I don’t believe any of the choices offered accurately reflect the current state of the Church in America. I don’t think men feel so much threatened by the excessive amount of feminization both in the Church and in society at large but that they are turned off by it. Is it not true that radical feminists and metrosexuals determine what men gain admission to many seminaries? (Read *Goodbye, Good *Men) We then wonder why we end up with homosexual priests abusing teenage boys. What is the point of altar girls or the unnecessary use of extraordinary ministers of the Eucharist, if not to lessen the significance of the male priesthood? Weren’t these measures instituted to pave the way for empowering bitter women to become “equal” to men by being ordained priests? Just as women can be ministers in Protestant churches. The Church doesn’t need priestesses or effeminate priests to act as spiritual “fathers.” The Church needs real men like St. Ambrose, St. Augustine, St. Louis IX, and Pope St. Pius X who are willing to sacrifice their lives to carry on the work of Our Lord and the apostles.
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Agree wholeheartedly.

I read an article somewhere about the effect of altar girls on vocations for the priesthood. Being an altar boy is no longer seen as a masculine right of passage, but rather something almost sissified that one’s mother makes you do.

With fewer boys as servers and seing up close the beauty and mystery of our faith, fewer are considering vocations. (The mixing of the sexes also causes the servers to focus on one another rather than what they are doing on the altar.)
 
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condan:
With fewer boys as servers and seing up close the beauty and mystery of our faith, fewer are considering vocations. (The mixing of the sexes also causes the servers to focus on one another rather than what they are doing on the altar.)
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I generally agree with you.

I had hoped to keep the thread more to the issue of how adult men are affected (if at all) by women’s involvement in the liturgy, but I guess the topic inevitably winds up coming around to servers and vocations.

Oh well…

Blessings.
 
Cardinal Heenan said in 1967, when he saw the First Novus Ordo Mass at St.Peter’s that this would leave a church of women and children.The problem that caused the loss of men from the Church is Vatican II. Cardinal Heenan thought this new Mass would never take hold. It was even voted down by the bishops. But Pope Paul VI left the Novus Ordo take hold and now we just have to look at the Church. The Church is in a wretched state now. Toledo closes 15% of its churches,Portland Archdiocese went bankrupt, to be continued
 
All men (male, female, born, unborn) are threated by the pollution of the Scriptures, Lectionary and Liturgy with “feminist” ideology.

We depend for our eternal survival, and even temporal welfare and happiness, on knowing the truth. The truth, when followed up by action to conform to the truth. leads to happiness. temporal and eternal.

The many bad translations that abound, change people’s understanding of what the Catholic Faith is and of what it requires.

At one point I mentioned to my spiritual director that changing a word really changed the responsibilities of husband and wife in Sacramental Marriage. He immediately noticed that the change also “allowed” same sex unions!
 
The Church needs to end this Vatican II shennanigans. Vatican II has caused more churches to close than open. We don’t need better translations we need Latin. Latin held our Roman Church together for almost 2000 years and didn’t need to be thrown out. The time after Trent every year the number of priests,churches,nuns, and faithful was going up and up. This time continued until 1965. Then after 1965 the Church took a nosedive in all these areas and the numbers of new priests and nuns. Sometimes people take pride in a one diocese which doesn’t have these problems. But one diocese can’t produce enough good priests to make up for the dead priests and nuns in all of America.
 
I definitely think that the church has become too feminized, and this is painfully clear at the NO mass (the women always far outnumber the men at the one I attend). At the TLM mass, however, I see a lot more men present, and that’s the mass I prefer.

I agree with many of the other posters who say that the feminization of the mass and church is simply leading us down the long dark road to the ordination of women as priests. I’ve been to masses where nuns have given the homilies, and there have been 4 altar girls and no boys. I also disagree with the use of EMs, male or female. If there are going to be EMs they should be male like the priest.

Pope Paul VI said “that through some small crack, the smoke of Satan has entered the church.” Man, did he hit the nail on the head or what! Without a lot of prayer and action from the faithful this is only going to get worse!
 
Well if they are not threatened they should be and so should women - I am one and I resent the feminization of the Church.
 
I am not in the least intimidated by females serving in roles assigned the laity to the extent allowed by church leaders. They too may be called to religious life.

They are not the “smoke of Satan.” They just have cooties.
 
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deogratias:
Well if they are not threatened they should be and so should women - I am one and I resent the feminization of the Church.
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Just curious about the female perspective…

When you say “the feminization of the church”, what are you referring to specifically?

Blessings
 
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