Are Messianic Jews Christians?

[GEddie]

So are they Trinitarians? Unitarians? Modalist? Arians? What is their theology of God? How do they baptize?

Although they reject the term “baptism” as being Greek and therefore non-Jewish (preferring the term “Mikvah”); their theology of baptism would seem to be New-Testament in origin.

ICXC NIKA

 

[7_Sorrows]

GEddie, are you sure that a Messianic Jew who is able to claim Jewish descent through his or her mother would be denied ‘right of return’ to Israel based upon his or her faith?
My understanding was that one might be considered Jewish by descent and/or by faith and that right of return applied in either situation.
May God bless you and all who visit this thread.
Amen.

I have heard this as well. They are denied the right of return. Not sure if it has changed.

 

[GEddie]

GEddie, are you sure that a Messianic Jew who is able to claim Jewish descent through his or her mother would be denied ‘right of return’ to Israel based upon his or her faith?
My understanding was that one might be considered Jewish by descent and/or by faith and that right of return applied in either situation.
May God bless you and all who visit this thread.
Amen.

That’s the paradox over there. If Jewish of blood (even though become an atheist) or validly converted (which normally means Orthodox), one is welcomed; but of practicing another religion, one is not, even if they have the blood.

Messianics are considered Christians, e.g. another religion.

ICXC NIKA

 

[thephilosopher6]

That’s the paradox over there. If Jewish of blood (even though become an atheist) or validly converted (which normally means Orthodox), one is welcomed; but of practicing another religion, one is not, even if they have the blood.

Messianics are considered Christians, e.g. another religion.

ICXC NIKA

Many Orthodox Jews do not consider Reform or Conservative Judaism as valid Jewish movements though and may see them more as a worldly spin on Judaism. They certainly wouldn’t consider converts to either as validly Jewish or those coming from parents or grandparents who converted as validly Jewish. They wouldn’t see their worship or prayers as authentic Jewish prayer and worship. So the question of who is Jewish is a huge deal within Judaism as a whole, whereas us Christians are generally accepting of each others movements as long as they don’t stray from essential doctrines of the Trinity or the need for baptism or something along those lines.

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

So are they Trinitarians? Unitarians? Modalist? Arians? What is their theology of God? How do they baptize?

They would be Trinitarians, believing that the word ‘Echad’ in the Hebrew Scriptures, translated as ‘one,’ means a unity of one–as in one egg with the shell, the yolk, and the white. They normally baptize by immersion, as in the Mikveh, which was immersion in water.

 

[thephilosopher6]

They would be Trinitarians, believing that the word ‘Echad’ in the Hebrew Scriptures, translated as ‘one,’ means a unity of one–as in one egg with the shell, the yolk, and the white. They normally baptize by immersion, as in the Mikveh, which was immersion in water.

They baptize in the name of the Trinity? I have heard of some Messianic Jews who are Unitarians.

 

[7_Sorrows]

They would be Trinitarians, believing that the word ‘Echad’ in the Hebrew Scriptures, translated as ‘one,’ means a unity of one–as in one egg with the shell, the yolk, and the white. They normally baptize by immersion, as in the Mikveh, which was immersion in water.

do they cast their sins upon the water?

 

[GEddie]

Many Orthodox Jews do not consider Reform or Conservative Judaism as valid Jewish movements though and may see them more as a worldly spin on Judaism. They certainly wouldn’t consider converts to either as validly Jewish or those coming from parents or grandparents who converted as validly Jewish. They wouldn’t see their worship or prayers as authentic Jewish prayer and worship. So the question of who is Jewish is a huge deal within Judaism as a whole, whereas us Christians are generally accepting of each others movements as long as they don’t stray from essential doctrines of the Trinity or the need for baptism or something along those lines.

True, but Christianity does not entitle citizenship in a country that really is too small for any more bodies…

ICXC NIKA

 

[jeannetherese]

True, but Christianity does not entitle citizenship in a country that really is too small for any more bodies…

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But, if the Jewish state is being promoted as a refuge for Jews, then denying entry to those of Jewish descent doesn’t make sense. It’s as if some Jews are more Jewish than others. It would be interesting to see the state defense of such a position.

 

[thephilosopher6]

But, if the Jewish state is being promoted as a refuge for Jews, then denying entry to those of Jewish descent doesn’t make sense. It’s as if some Jews are more Jewish than others. It would be interesting to see the state defense of such a position.

I actually just found something on Wikipedia that says Israel does allow Messianic Jews who can prove they have Jewish ancestry to make aliyah, even if not halakha accoridng to Orthodox Judaism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism#Response_of_Israeli_government

 

[GEddie]

I actually just found something on Wikipedia that says Israel does allow Messianic Jews who can prove they have Jewish ancestry to make aliyah, even if not halakha accoridng to Orthodox Judaism.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messianic_Judaism#Response_of_Israeli_government

Correction taken.

ICXC NIKA

 

[thephilosopher6]

Correction taken.

ICXC NIKA

Yet interestingly the Israeli government still considers Messianic Judaism Christian and those who have no Jewish background who become Messianic would not be granted aliyah.

But a Jew who becomes Messianic would still be able to make aliyah, and another Jew who converts to mainstream Christianity or Islam or some other religion would not be eligible…

 

[7_Sorrows]

Yet interestingly the Israeli government still considers Messianic Judaism Christian and those who have no Jewish background who become Messianic would not be granted aliyah.

But a Jew who becomes Messianic would still be able to make aliyah, and another Jew who converts to mainstream Christianity or Islam or some other religion would not be eligible…

Thanks for doing the research.

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

They baptize in the name of the Trinity? I have heard of some Messianic Jews who are Unitarians.

I’ve also heard of some Messianic Jews being Unitarian, saying that in Judaism, it was never believed that the Messiah was going to be God himself. In my experience and opinion, this would not be the norm, though, but an individual belief, as Messianic Judaism, on the whole, teaches that from a scriptural point of view, words such as ‘Elohim’ (the plural form of ‘God’) and the word ‘Echad’ (a ‘unity of one’) both indicate a Godhead.

Here’s another good website which explains that particular question from a Messianic standpoint:

shema.com/the-jewishness-of-the-trinity-248/

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

They normally baptize by immersion, as in the Mikveh, which was immersion in water.

do they cast their sins upon the water?

I personally have never observed this, but it is done by some Jewish people on Rosh Hashanah (The Jewish New Year). It wouldn’t be connected with Baptism. But Meltzerboy and Kaninchen would know more than me.

 

[Autumn_Smoke]

They normally baptize by immersion, as in the Mikveh, which was immersion in water.

do they cast their sins upon the water?

I personally have never observed this, but it is done by some Jewish people on Rosh Hashanah (The Jewish New Year). It wouldn’t be connected with Baptism.

But Meltzerboy and Kaninchen would know more about this particular ceremony than me.

 

[7_Sorrows]

I personally have never observed this, but it is done by some Jewish people on Rosh Hashanah (The Jewish New Year). It wouldn’t be connected with Baptism.

But Meltzerboy and Kaninchen would know more about this particular ceremony than me.

I remember when I took a Discovering Judaism class and I thought I remembered
a little ceremony where you took something and cast it into the water and it was like
casting your sins upon the water. Was it bread or crackers I don’t remember now.