Are monks necessary?

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Praedicare

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Dear friends,

In today’s Western culture, we have some stereotypical ideas of monasticism. We can easily believe it is a refuge for immature, lazy, homosexual, or shy people.

I must admit that I had a huge draw to monasticism about the time of my adult baptism, but these attitudes affected me. Sometimes I think the original Desert Fathers were being cowardly, running away from the World. Sometimes I think the rampant corruption of the 15th century in monasteries proved that monks are hostile to the Gospel. Sometimes I think the cloister is just a place for the immature, cowardly, and purposeless souls who can’t stand up to the harsh realities of life. Sometimes I think God only ever willed Bishops, Priests, Deacons, and Laity, and so the rest is wrong.

Can anyone help me understand why Monasticism is necessary to the Church? I don’t mean the active orders, but those who are contemplative: Benedictine, Cistercian, Trappist, Carthusian, Carmelite, et. al.
 
Monasticism is not necessary to the Church. There have been times when there was no Monasticism. There have been times when civil authorities (I’m looking at you, France) closed and consolidated Orders into something not recognized by the Church.

Your impression of monastery life is uninformed. BBC did a very interesting “reality show” called The Monastery in which five men (selected from hundreds of volunteers) go to live in a Benedictine monastery for 40 days (TLC did a similar show at a monastery in the US desert).

The participants agree to leave all ties to their former lives and live according to the vows of the Order. The BBC wished to do this series to see if the centuries-old contemplative life has anything to offer modern society. The participants are not religious (one of them is in advertising, and is producing trailers for a sex chat line).

If you would like to see an unprecedented (and accurate) peek behind the cloister wall then you might want to have a look. It’s an entertaining and enlightening program. You can get started with Episode 1 on YouTube here.
 
Praedicare said:
Dear friends,

In today’s Western culture, we have some stereotypical ideas of monasticism. We can easily believe it is a refuge for immature, lazy, homosexual, or shy people.

I must admit that I had a huge draw to monasticism about the time of my adult baptism, but these attitudes affected me. Sometimes I think the original Desert Fathers were being cowardly, running away from the World. Sometimes I think the rampant corruption of the 15th century in monasteries proved that monks are hostile to the Gospel. Sometimes I think the cloister is just a place for the immature, cowardly, and purposeless souls who can’t stand up to the harsh realities of life. Sometimes I think God only ever willed Bishops, Priests, Deacons, and Laity, and so the rest is wrong.

Can anyone help me understand why Monasticism is necessary to the Church? I don’t mean the active orders, but those who are contemplative: Benedictine, Cistercian, Trappist, Carthusian, Carmelite, et. al.
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Are they necessary, no. Are they a treasure of the Church, yes.

Some of the best theologians the Church have had were monks and or nuns.

The Carmelites alone have 3 Doctors of the Church - ocd.ie/index.php/our-carmelite-doctors.html

ourladyswarriors.org/saints/doctlist.htm

God Bless
 
Thank you both for the thoughts and resources.

I’ve seen bits and pieces of “The Monastery”, and one of my favourite programs is “Into Great Silence”. I admire the lifestyle purely from a naturally and secular point of view… but from the point of view of grace and the Gospel, it seems counterproductive. I’ve heard that “Jesus was the first Religious” from such luminaries as Fr. John Hardon. He was convinced that the active & contemplative Religious Lie is essential to the Gospel.

You may say “contemplatives pray for the salvation of the world better and more often than others”, but is this so? God would uphold all things and His Holy Church regardless of monks and nuns. Many lay-people and secular clergy also pray to a not-insignificant degree.

I suppose I am wondering how it’s possible to fulfill the Gospel and advance the Kingdom of God when one is forever hidden away as a hermit or contemplative. Christ tells us to do many things - justice, forgiveness, mercy, alms - which only an active person can do. Christ prayed that the Father would not take His disciples out of the world, but rather that He would protect them from evil (John 17:15). When Christ went out for solitude and prayer in the wilderness, He always came back into society. The same goes for Elijah and the Prophets. If it is not possible to be a prophet alone, how can one be a true Christian alone? These are my fears because I am attracted to the vocation.
 
It’s hard for us to know the impact of not only the prayers but also the sacrifices of the contemplative Orders. These people give up everything in service to Jesus (at least that is how it has been traditionally done - many would argue that some modern Orders are far too lax). Ordinary laypeople can pray, sure, but they rarely make such sacrifice.

What would happen if they all left their houses for secular life? Nobody can say, but Fr. Benedict Groschel thinks that if the Carmelites alone did that, the world would fall from its foundation (and he’s not even a Carmelite).

And, as others have pointed out, contemplative Saints have enriched our understanding about the very nature of Christian spirituality in works such as Dark Night of the Soul and Ascent of Mt. Carmel. While it is true that non-contemplatives can also give us great spiritual insight (Spiritual Exercises comes immediately to mind), I think it would be hard to argue that the spiritual insights of contemplatives has greatly enriched the Church for ages to come. They are professional Christians - that’s their full-time career. We’re just a bunch of amateurs.

Most houses are self-sufficient (often somewhat supported by individual contributors), so they are not a “drain” on physical Church resources. And there are some Trappists out here in Oregon who support themselves by making the finest fudge you could ever imagine, so Yaaaa for the Trappists!
 
You guys are forgetting one thing. It’s not just about what is necessary for the world or necessary for the Church. Monasticism is necessary for monks.

Monks are called to monastic life by God - it is a vocation, not something they do because it is attractive or necessary. One who follows their God given vocation becomes the person God created them to be. When a monk follows God’s call to be a monk he is doing God’s will, and in so doing saves his soul. All vocations recognized by the Church as authentic originate with God. It is God who calls, and God does not call someone to something that is unnecessary.

Being vs Doing. It isn’t about what they do for the world. They become monks because it is God’s will.

-Tim-
 
Praedicare said:
Thank you both for the thoughts and resources.

I’ve seen bits and pieces of “The Monastery”, and one of my favourite programs is “Into Great Silence”. I admire the lifestyle purely from a naturally and secular point of view… but from the point of view of grace and the Gospel, it seems counterproductive. I’ve heard that “Jesus was the first Religious” from such luminaries as Fr. John Hardon. He was convinced that the active & contemplative Religious Lie is essential to the Gospel.

You may say “contemplatives pray for the salvation of the world better and more often than others”, but is this so? God would uphold all things and His Holy Church regardless of monks and nuns. Many lay-people and secular clergy also pray to a not-insignificant degree.

I suppose I am wondering how it’s possible to fulfill the Gospel and advance the Kingdom of God when one is forever hidden away as a hermit or contemplative. Christ tells us to do many things - justice, forgiveness, mercy, alms - which only an active person can do. Christ prayed that the Father would not take His disciples out of the world, but rather that He would protect them from evil (John 17:15). When Christ went out for solitude and prayer in the wilderness, He always came back into society. The same goes for Elijah and the Prophets. If it is not possible to be a prophet alone, how can one be a true Christian alone? These are my fears because I am attracted to the vocation.
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Monastics are not alone. They are not hermits (and even hermits have contact with the world outside their hermitage). They live in a community, and thus have to learn to live in cooperation with others with all their human foibles. They follow the rules of the community and are obedient to their Superiors even if they don’t want to be, which is difficult in itself, and have no personal possessions, holding things in common. They have to learn how to love the unlovable, forgive others, etc., just like us, except in some respects it might be harder because you may be stuck for life in a small place with somebody that drives you crazy. You don’t need to say a lot of words to drive somebody crazy. They also work to support themselves, and pray a lot, which is the hardest and most important work in the world. Many of them take in guests and practice hospitality, and also help to support the poor.

Now to address hermits, here is one’s website, and she addresses common misconceptions about hermits. Sr. Laurel is well-known from certain Catholic websites. Also, Sr. Wendy, who did the PBS series on art is an hermit.

anunslife.org/podcasts/in-good-faith/igf006-in-good-faith
 
TimothyH said:
You guys are forgetting one thing. It’s not just about what is necessary for the world or necessary for the Church. Monasticism is necessary for monks.

Monks are called to monastic life by God - it is a vocation, not something they do because it is attractive or necessary. One who follows their God given vocation becomes the person God created them to be. When a monk follows God’s call to be a monk he is doing God’s will, and in so doing saves his soul.

All vocations recognized by the Church as authentic originate with God. It is God who calls, and God does not call someone to something that is unnecessary. For a monk, monasticism is necessary for them to be whom God created them to be.

Being vs Doing. It isn’t about what they do for the world, but about them being who God created them to be. It is necessary for them to be monks.

-Tim-
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Great points Tim!
 
This is not a question of whether cloistered religious are a “drain” on physical resources. That’s very far from my concern!

What I perceive is a quasi-contempt for other vocations in elevating monks to the elite level of “real Christians”, the “true sacrificers” and “those who really pray”. Are not all Catholics called to “pray without ceasing”? We ordinary people fail, and monks probably fail too. Perhaps they fail less often than seculars, but no one is perfect.

I don’t understand where the idea of “upholding the world’s foundations” comes from. Fr. Groeschel’s statement has echoes of this magical-sounding view. God relies on no-one, and He upholds the world from beyond all time. I am not attacking monks and hermits, but this portion of the vocation seems superfluous.

Contemplative saints may well have given us our deepest understandings of the spiritual life, but what is navel-gazing and theory compared to living the Gospel among the poor? Do the spiritual writings of monks talk about living so intimately with God that earthly boundaries fall away? If so, is this not an attempt to make Heaven present on Earth, negating the true Heaven beyond? We cannot make utopia here. We also can’t directly see God here, regardless of ecstasies. We shouldn’t fool ourselves.

The statement about “professional Christians” vs. “amateurs” is very unfair to the many holy bishops, priests, deacons, active religious, and laity who have had profound effects on the salvation of souls throughout history. Do you understand why I am wondering about the necessity of monks?

Timothy, by saying one becomes a monk to save one’s soul, you come close to the essence of my question. Is hiding from the world in perpetuity really God’s will? The point comes back to the active lives of our Lord Jesus Christ, St. John the Baptist, Elijah, and all the true heroes of God. Why is life-long silence and solitude God’s will for anyone? This is the question I’d love an answer to - especially from the Church and the Saints.
 
I would say they are necessary.

What they do is beyond what many of us think we could do.

Learning about monasteries there lifestyle is amazing.

They really know how to not waste a day.
 
adawgj, your words put my question into a good focus:

They really know how not to waste a day… but neither do dedicated bankers, policemen, or surgeons! We can all admire their hard work, but is the monastic stillness something that Christ approves of as a means for the salvation of souls and the recreation of the whole World? That is the question. 🙂

Is it a “Protestant” mindset to say that it’s better to work for the salvation of others than to “just” pray for them?
 
Luke 10: 38-42 has often been used throughout Church history as a support for those who choose the life of an enclosed monk or nun.
"38 Now as they went on their way, he entered a certain village, where a woman named Martha welcomed him into her home. 39 She had a sister named Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet and listened to what he was saying. 40 But Martha was distracted by her many tasks; so she came to him and asked, “Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to do all the work by myself? Tell her then to help me.” 41 But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are worried and distracted by many things; 42 there is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part, which will not be taken away from her.”

Those who live an enclosed life also serve the Church and the spread of the Gospel by their life of prayer and sacrifice which helps bring about the fruit of those who are active in the Vineyard of the Lord.
 
I’m baffled at the fact that the OP thinks monks are lazy, immature homosexuals. Now that’s a new one.
 
Brianmcg321 said:
I’m baffled at the fact that the OP thinks monks are lazy, immature homosexuals. Now that’s a new one.
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I said it is possible for us in the present culture to have those beliefs. They are explicitly identified as stereotypes in the OP. Do not have contempt for me because I asked my questions in a way that was irreverent. Please forgive me.
 
Praedicare said:
Timothy, by saying one becomes a monk to save one’s soul, you come close to the essence of my question. Is hiding from the world in perpetuity really God’s will? The point comes back to the active lives of our Lord Jesus Christ, St. John the Baptist, Elijah, and all the true heroes of God. Why is life-long silence and solitude God’s will for anyone? This is the question I’d love an answer to - especially from the Church and the Saints.
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They do not hide from the world. They renounce the world. There is a difference.

The world was created good. God said that after he created it, on the sixth day, he looked around and saw that everything was very good. Family, birthdays, grandchildren, sex, driving a motorcycle in a winding mountain road on a beautiful summer morning… all of it is good. A monk renounces that. They give it up voluntarily in exchange for something better. The world is temporary. It will all pass away. They exchange the temporary for something permanent, and infinitely better - God himself. They will spend a lifetime seeking unity with God in prayer and in daily life. They give up the world with all of it’s noise and glitter in exchange for God himself. What could be better than that?

Hiding has to do with fear. Monks are not hiding from the world out of fear. Someone who goes to the monastery to hide won’t last six weeks. Lazy homosexuals wouldn’t last six days.

And most monks are not silent. Cistercians observe grand silence from about 7:00 PM until Mass the next morning. Most of that time they are asleep. Benedictines are similar.

And monks are not alone. They live with their brothers. The monastery near me has 36 men who eat, sleep, pray and work together 24x7. They have to put up with each other - this one has bad breath and the guy over there never cleans up after himself and the guy last week was a horrible cook and that guy is a grumpy old man, etc. The monastery is a school of love, where Brothers learn to bear with the weaknesses and faults of others, just like the Bible says we are supposed to do.

I would like to recommend a book, if you would like, which is an excellent glimpse into the monastic life. It is specific to Cistercians but is applicable to all Benedictine monastics. I know little about Carmelites.

The Cistercian Way by Andre Louf. It goes into all of this. It is most excellent for anyone who wants to understand what monasticism is about.

bks8.books.google.com/books?id=FGnZAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE71y5Zcc4OLN9_1tb_O8Ao8Vx2MDFSew_LjYvymGOwBchBS9m9jQa-JsOKHJgPr6LxPvNSRTiXvDBjOXfqQ9UQZSXxPLVxroe583J1YDKD_7DZ7zd_093wgzR7JYsxWbwdOahGcN

-Tim-
 
Praedicare said:
What I perceive is a quasi-contempt for other vocations in elevating monks to the elite level of “real Christians”, the “true sacrificers” and “those who really pray”. Are not all Catholics called to “pray without ceasing”? We ordinary people fail, and monks probably fail too. Perhaps they fail less often than seculars, but no one is perfect.
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No, again, monks do not fail at praying without ceasing. They are able to turn their entire life into one unceasing prayer.

Praying with Benedict: Prayer in the Rule of St. Benedict by Korneel Vermeiren.

bks9.books.google.com/books?id=7kzZAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&img=1&zoom=1&imgtk=AFLRE73PA99hCdwMxeRgP3mGOGKPTDOyixgVXhERqd8APayQwJk9g9Ah-B33mCbsGF6w0aQ5Zzhn4FMPjOPe-1UWnayXQUV_aIFJd8blx27JtH_G8-SFTgwtb3TPeeg_c0tgUfFZru-Q

-Tim-
 
Praedicare said:
Dear friends,

In today’s Western culture, we have some stereotypical ideas of monasticism. We can easily believe it is a refuge for immature, lazy, homosexual, or shy people.

I must admit that I had a huge draw to monasticism about the time of my adult baptism, but these attitudes affected me. Sometimes I think the original Desert Fathers were being cowardly, running away from the World. Sometimes I think the rampant corruption of the 15th century in monasteries proved that monks are hostile to the Gospel. Sometimes I think the cloister is just a place for the immature, cowardly, and purposeless souls who can’t stand up to the harsh realities of life. Sometimes I think God only ever willed Bishops, Priests, Deacons, and Laity, and so the rest is wrong.

Can anyone help me understand why Monasticism is necessary to the Church? I don’t mean the active orders, but those who are contemplative: Benedictine, Cistercian, Trappist, Carthusian, Carmelite, et. al.
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They pray. Constantly praying for the world. Without their prayers I have no doubt the works would collapse.
 
TimothyH said:
They give up the world with all of it’s noise and glitter in exchange for God himself. What could be better than that?
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Not to ignore the rest of your excellent post, nor to be snarky, but:

What could be better than that? How about actually seeing, experiencing, and knowing *God *in the noise, glitter, and experiences of normal life? The Incarnation. I’m afraid of dualism here.

Perhaps that’s too Franciscan for those who “leave the world”. 😊
Jon_S said:
They pray. Constantly praying for the world. Without their prayers I have no doubt the works would collapse.
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If I may say so, that is lack of faith in God. He was perfectly capable of sustaining the Universe during the time of the Old Covenant and then of the Church for centuries, without a monastic structure.

By the way, in the apologetics for monasticism, don’t forget about the Deacons of Acts, and the fact that the Apostles had to pray rather than serve tables. That dichotomy - together with Martha & Mary - is very interesting.
 
Praedicare said:
These are my fears because I am attracted to the vocation.
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***Watchmen of the Night / Veilleurs dans la nuit

**
"People say to us, ’ You serve no purpose. What do you do? Praising God 5 or 6 hours a day, that’s pointless.’ It’s the highest compliment we can be paid. It’s true, it serves no ‘purpose’.
**
We don’t serve ‘a purpose.’ We serve Someone. We serve God."
("On ne sert pas *à quelque chose. On sert Quelqu’un. On sert Dieu.")

Open your heart, listen for God’s voice.
 
TimothyH said:
They do not hide from the world. They renounce the world. There is a difference.
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Tim, I don’t know if I would use that word either. After all, Pope Benedict used “renunciare” when announcing his resignation. I know what you mean, though.

That said, one can’t overlook the monks contributions to the world since the early centuries. There’s a nice piece written by Tom Wood in his “How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization.” (I believe it’s chapter 4.)

tomwoods.com/books/how-the-catholic-church-built-western-civilization/

ebook3000.com/How-the-Catholic-Church-Built-Western-Civilization_94863.html
 
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