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StrawberryJam
Guest
You really are kidding? You believe in all the apparitions and various other things in your faith? They are even more far- fetched at times.
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ParkerD
Guest
Hi, Amontoya,
Thanks for adding those verses. I guess I was thinking of John 12:37-43, particularly v. 37. But certainly many did believe in the miracle of Lazarus’ being raised from the dead, as those verses point out. 'Hope you are doing well.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
It is well worth to note Jesus cried at hearing about the death of Lazarus.
It is not written that he did so with his cousin, the baptiser.
John the Baptist.
Not a record of a tear shed for him.
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ricko
Guest
I believe in those miracles that have been researched by Catholics and non-Catholics alike for years and have been approved by the Church. Examples are Fatima and Lourdes.
These miracles were witnessed by thousands of people.
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ricko
Guest
In researching I stumbled across this site nowscape.com/mormon/3nephites.htm that appears to be Mormon. Here is a picture from that site with this caption:
Nephite #2 is photographed here at a New York City atheist protest in 1995, as he attempted to place himself between the peaceful atheist protesters and the pope. Nephites sometimes do not photograph well – or at all – but here the image came through partially. Special filters were used to capture this image.
Nephite #2 is photographed here at a New York City atheist protest in 1995, as he attempted to place himself between the peaceful atheist protesters and the pope. Nephites sometimes do not photograph well – or at all – but here the image came through partially. Special filters were used to capture this image.
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Religio71
Guest
HAHAHA that’s a parody site. It does a good job of injecting some actual LDS beliefs, but it’s definitely a parody.
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xixxvmcm85
Guest
Even when I was Mormon I loved that website. I got a special hoot out of the “Sabbath Report Cards” they featured one month. I can’t seem to find it now, but it involved the church issuing report cards for how well members keep the sabbath. You’d get points docked off if someone saw you mowing your lawn or coming home in a bathing suit. Double points for going to the store (plus points docked off from the nark who ratted you out seeing as he shouldn’t have been there either).
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Mormons dont do anything on Saturday or Sunday? (don’t know which is their sabbath)
Oh my.
Oh my.
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ParkerD
Guest
StrawberryJam,
If one thinks about the difference of those two situations, and also the timing during the Savior’s ministry, then one could conclude that the emotions would be very different since one death was caused by the government and the other was from natural causes. But it also appears that Lazarus and his sisters were personal friends, whereas John the Baptist and Jesus may not have associated with each other very much other than formally. I assume the Savior may have also had a premonition about the death of John the Baptist before it happened. Interesting observation, though.
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Johnbear
Guest
I am sure there will be no evidence just witnesses. Unlike the Catholic Church has doctors from all faiths and none to examine any miracles from Lourdes. Everything is open and above board. I don’t think I will see that with any Mormon miracles.
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amontoya
Guest
John 21:25, “There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.”
Just because its not recorded in the Bible doesn’t mean that Jesus didn’t weep for John the Baptist.
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StrawberryJam
Guest
Does not mean he did either, and apparently the ones chosen to write the narrative (we have no record of Jesus telling them to write anything)
Silence is not evidence.
He had been told about his death and never bothered to even see him buried., if he even was…
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TheQuestioner
Guest
Careful not to take what you want to hear out of it.
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ricko
Guest
The bible is not intented to be a record of history.
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Religio71
Guest
there is no Biblical evidence that there should be 12 Apostles after the Biblical period. The current Mormon apostles did not company with the other 11 Apostles with Jesus Christ, nor are they witnesses to the risen Lord (though they claim to be “special witnesses of Christ”). Matthias became one of the 12, having fulfilled that criteria. Paul and Barnabas were not added to the 12 Apostles, so it is interesting that Mormons cite them as evidence for the continuation of the 12. After the appointing of Matthias, no other people were added to the 12.
Also, the LDS Church does not have 12 Apostles, it has 15.
**2 Corinthians 12:!2
12Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
**
Sadly we do not see many signs and wonders among the LDS apostles. Interestingly, most of the alleged signs and wonders occurred in the early LDS times, and now we rarely hear anything. I really don’t see any comparison or equivalence between the Biblical Apostles, and the LDS “restoration” of that office.
Also, the LDS Church does not have 12 Apostles, it has 15.
**2 Corinthians 12:!2
12Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.
**
Sadly we do not see many signs and wonders among the LDS apostles. Interestingly, most of the alleged signs and wonders occurred in the early LDS times, and now we rarely hear anything. I really don’t see any comparison or equivalence between the Biblical Apostles, and the LDS “restoration” of that office.
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ParkerD
Guest
Religio71,
I’ve read before that some Catholics think Paul was only a self-described Apostle. Why would he do that? As Rick just noted, the Bible is not a complete history. How do you in particular know for certain that Paul was not called as one of the twelve apostles?
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Religio71
Guest
I think that we can ask “how can we know for certain” for many/all things we believe as Christians, related to the Biblical period.
Catholics believe that Paul really was an apostle, however he was not one of the Twelve. The Bible gives us the criteria to be one of the Twelve:
Acts 1:21-22
**21Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. **
Paul also distinguishes himself from the Twelve, here:
**"3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
5And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: "**
Also, here is what Paul says again in Corinthians:
1 Corinthians 9:
** 1Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?
2If I be not an apostle unto others, yet doubtless I am to you: for the seal of mine apostleship are ye in the Lord. **
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Religio71
Guest
Parker, how do you see the current Twelve as equivalent to the Biblical Twelve? How are they the same office? How do they act like the original Twelve? Do they perform signs and wonders?
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kikkichan
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ricko
Guest
That’s one of the major problems with the LDS apostles, they have no powers that the real original Apostles had. Therefore they cannot be true Apostles otherwise we would be seeing and hearing about healings as in the Gospels and Acts.
Now to say there are miracles but they are not allowed to talk about them and no reporters allowed is a little too much. Kinda like, “I got the gold plates but no one can see them and they are going to heaven so no one can ever see them” The Catholic Church allows all miracles to be investigated by anyone as it is an open church. Miracles in the bible were all in public. Jesus and the Apostles never tried to keep their miracles secret.
I say the evidence is that the LDS apostles are not Apostles and are only self proclaimed as Joseph Smith was. Where are the healings for all to see? Where is the proof?
This lack of healings on the part of LDS apostles proves that the Catholic Church is right. The Apostolic Age ended with the death of the last Apostle.
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