Are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?

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Ouch! Do you normally get replies from us if this is the approach you take?
Heard that, brother. That’s what we call a " drive- by hostile post." Somebody writes something as outrageous as he can and then you never hear from him again ( until, of course, the poster sees another thread where Protestants and Catholics are getting on well and emphasizing their similarities. Then, another drive- by). Thing is, it keeps you fresh on managing your ignore list. If we’re not vigilant, the thread can quickly degenerate into a hateful name- calling fest. The attacks are emotional, designed to elicit an emotional response. Best thing is to continue the fellowship.
 
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.
Through Jesus, we are adopted sons and daughter of God, and thus heirs with Christ. As Christ was glorified, so shall we be. This does not mean that we will become God or God’s.
 
Through Jesus, we are adopted sons and daughter of God, and thus heirs with Christ. As Christ was glorified, so shall we be. This does not mean that we will become God or God’s.
LDS perspective–
Christ is the heir of the Father, inheriting everything He has. Joint heirs also inherit everything He has.
 
Heard that, brother. That’s what we call a " drive- by hostile post." Somebody writes something as outrageous as he can and then you never hear from him again ( until, of course, the poster sees another thread where Protestants and Catholics are getting on well and emphasizing their similarities. Then, another drive- by). Thing is, it keeps you fresh on managing your ignore list. If we’re not vigilant, the thread can quickly degenerate into a hateful name- calling fest. The attacks are emotional, designed to elicit an emotional response. Best thing is to continue the fellowship.
Not sure why you called a post that brings up legitimate issues a hostile post. Is it possible you don’t agree, have nothing to add, and just want to attack a poster?
 
It’s clear to me from the 600+ prior posts that with Catholic vs Mormon, aside from differences in practice, we have major differences in how we view God the Father and in how we view the Trinity.
Yes, and by not believing in the Christian Trinity, they do not perform Christian baptisms. A person needs a Christian baptism to be a Christian.
 
Yes, and by not believing in the Christian Trinity, they do not perform Christian baptisms. A person needs a Christian baptism to be a Christian.
And again, so starts the circle, a Protestant pastor could say (and has) that Catholics don’t practice a Christian baptism because its not by immersion and therefore is invalid and a Mormon does not recognize a Catholic or Protestant baptism.

But I agree that your argument is the textbook answer to why a Mormon would not be considered a Christian from a Catholic perspective.
 
LDS perspective–
Christ is the heir of the Father, inheriting everything He has. Joint heirs also inherit everything He has.
I don’t think either of us can say exactly what “everything” means in this case, can you? We will understand that full meaning when we get our heavenly reward. It cannot mean we become God or God’s in the truest sense of the word, as you can plainly see in the verse of Isaiah 43 I quoted above. Do you dispute the meaning of that verse?
 
And again, so starts the circle, a Protestant pastor could say (and has) that Catholics don’t practice a Christian baptism because its not by immersion and therefore is invalid and a Mormon does not recognize a Catholic or Protestant baptism.

But I agree that your argument is the textbook answer to why a Mormon would not be considered a Christian from a Catholic perspective.
While it could be called a “textbook” answer, it is the Catholic Answer, which is consistence with ancient Christianity.
 
Let me quote the entire statement from the CCC:

460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

The Catholic Church does not interpret this as LDS do, we will not become God or God’s in the true sense of the word. We will never be equal to God either, or be a creator as only God is. I can produce for you at least 30-40 Biblical verses that show your belief is incorrect, but here is one which is very clear:

Isaiah 43:10,11 — You are my witnesses, said the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that you may know and believe me,** and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.** I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no savior.
The ancient analogy of theosis is the poker in the fire. While the poker takes on many attributes of fire, it never becomes fire; it remains iron.

Mormons believe we are a spark which will become fire; God in embryo. Christianity has never taught such a thing. Joseph Smith made it up in 1844.

That is what she means by:
LDS perspective–
Christ is the heir of the Father, inheriting everything He has. Joint heirs also inherit everything He has.
 
Not sure why you called a post that brings up legitimate issues a hostile post. Is it possible you don’t agree, have nothing to add, and just want to attack a poster?
No, not really. Is it possible you want to stir up unnecessary drama? What issues do you see as legitimate? Why was it necessary for the poster to interject that comment right when things were going so well? What do you want me to add? Oh, yes, oh yes, you are right, we Protestants are all damned to Hell because we don’t accept a bunch of extra- Biblical statements by an authority that is an authority because it says it’s an authority.
We are desperate to " separate Christ from his Church" and by the way, the Ecumenical steps taken by Vatican II were just such a waste of time. Extra Ecclesia nulla Salus.

All right, sarcasm off. I’m not entirely sure how many people who call themselves " Catholic" here are actually in allegiance to the Vatican and how many are under cover Sedevacantists. According to one of your own priests ( here at least), as faithful Catholics, you are bound to respect the decisions made by your bishops.
Yeah, I have something to add: The twenty- eight Articles of the Augsburg Confession. If your lot are as serious about reunification as you say you are, those Articles should be included as part and parcel of your Catechism. The Pope should be retained as a symbol of Christian Unity ( always recognizing the Lordship of Jesus Christ, never trying to add or take away from the message of the Gospel, doing away with the Cult of the Saints and while recognizing Mary’s unique role as the Mother of God, not pestering her in prayer, recognizing that Jesus Christ is the Sole Mediator we have with the Father).

Cherry- picking a few verses out of the Synoptic Gospels and the Gospel of St. John does not lend legitimacy to your arguments and in fact, merely confirms your usage of the Protestant tactic of Sola Scriptura. The Protestant Reformation sparked the Catholic Counter- Reformation and the Decrees of the Council of Trent, which finalized the structure of your church ( in that sense, the Catholic Church is nearly fifty years younger than the Lutheran Church… so, out goes the " older brother argument"), the Canon of Scripture was finalized at Trent ( so, the Books Luther omitted were actually in dispute anyway). The traditions Luther criticized were extra- Biblical and relatively recent at his time anyway ( obviously, he wasn’t the only one to criticize them), so their omissions hardly constitute a danger to Protestant souls.

So, sir, how do you justify your challenge to me? Wasn’t the topic " Are Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses Christian?" You wanted to drag me into an off topic argument? I’ve presented my point of view. My apologies to the Latter- Day Saints and the Jehovah’s Witnesses who approached this thread in good faith that the topic would be explored for the derailment and subsequent manure- flinging between Catholics and Protestants that tend to happen on these threads. Please return to your topic.
 
I’ve been guilty of going a little off topic myself at times, but can we just stick to discussing this thread…please. 🙂
 
The ancient analogy of theosis is the poker in the fire. While the poker takes on many attributes of fire, it never becomes fire; it remains iron.

Mormons believe we are a spark which will become fire; God in embryo. Christianity has never taught such a thing. Joseph Smith made it up in 1844.

That is what she means by:
Good analogy, thanks for sharing!
 
Fine, forget where you are. Really?
Okay, back on topic! 🙂 Where I am is on a thread that asks whether or not Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons may be considered Christians. Since anti- Protestant polemic is obviously inappropriate on a thread such as this one, let’s continue the thread of the conversation, shall we? In many different ways, such as doctrinal issues and faith formation, the LDS and the JWs diverge from what we may consider traditional Christian thought. In other ways, they are quite similar and are in some ways based on their own interpretations of the Bible, which we as Christians regard as our Holy Book.

The reasons for such divergences have been explained by some of the LDS posters here, which have been rejected as insufficient reasons by other posters. The LDS believe in ongoing revelations, while we believe that revelation ceased not long after the close of the Apostolic Age, although the revelations given before then have been the subjects of interpretation and reinterpretation. St. Augustine and St. Athanasius were two of the more forceful members of the clergy in that period and they played no small part in the formation of today’s Christian Church, which, despite its administrative and doctrinal divisions, has remained one, holy and Christian, at least in my own not so humble opinion. The JWs and LDS regard their respective churches as Restored after centuries of apostasy, so they will not recognize the same authorities much of Christendom takes for granted these days ( our concepts of Trinity, the mode of baptism and so on) as definitively Christian.
 
While it could be called a “textbook” answer, it is the Catholic Answer, which is consistence with ancient Christianity.
I agree with you, this is the Catholic position, the Catholic answer to the OP. but everyone posting here is not Catholic. If they were this thread would be 2 posts long.
 
Through Jesus, we are adopted sons and daughter of God, and thus heirs with Christ. As Christ was glorified, so shall we be. This does not mean that we will become God or God’s.
This is not what scripture says. Acts 17:29 clearly states that we are the offspring of God.

Since therefore we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the divinity is like an image fashioned from gold, silver, or stone by human art and imagination.

The word “offspring” is translated from the Greek word “genos”.

See biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/17-29.htm.

Per wikipedia, genos can be translated to mean "race, “stock”, or “kin”. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genos.

So I believe that your assertion is incorrect. There is no adoption implied in “genos”, and it definitely implies an ontological similarity. We are the same race as God. Offspring can become like their progenitors.
 
MORMON HERESY_______________________
  1. Teaches that there are many gods, and that humans can become gods and goddesses in the Heavenly kingdom: “History of the Church” 6 p. 306; “Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball,” pp. 28, 51-53.
Romans 8:17 and if children, then heirs, heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if only we suffer with him so that we may also be glorified with him.
This is not what scripture says. Acts 17:29 clearly states that we are the offspring of God.

Since therefore we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the divinity is like an image fashioned from gold, silver, or stone by human art and imagination.

The word “offspring” is translated from the Greek word “genos”.

See biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/17-29.htm.

Per wikipedia, genos can be translated to mean "race, “stock”, or “kin”. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genos.

So I believe that your assertion is incorrect. There is no adoption implied in “genos”, and it definitely implies an ontological similarity. We are the same race as God. Offspring can become like their progenitors.
Yes, you are correct. Mormons believe they will become Gods, therefore they believe in many Gods. But not all Mormons believe it.
It is an inaccurate representation of LDS beliefs.
Or maybe it was a knee jerk response to make Mormons seem Christian and she really does believe it.
LDS perspective–
Christ is the heir of the Father, inheriting everything He has. Joint heirs also inherit everything He has.
 
This is not what scripture says. Acts 17:29 clearly states that we are the offspring of God.

Since therefore we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the divinity is like an image fashioned from gold, silver, or stone by human art and imagination.

The word “offspring” is translated from the Greek word “genos”.

See biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/17-29.htm.

Per wikipedia, genos can be translated to mean "race, “stock”, or “kin”. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genos.

So I believe that your assertion is incorrect. There is no adoption implied in “genos”, and it definitely implies an ontological similarity. We are the same race as God. Offspring can become like their progenitors.
Yes, we are offspring of God, and we are also adopted children of God. We were created by God, in the Book of Genesis we see: “Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.” The Hebrew word can mean either spirit or breath.

Eph. 1:5; “He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.”

We can see that we are both the offspring of God, and His adopted children through Jesus Christ.
 
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