Are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?

[CourtingTex]

And I for one thank God for the change of attitude among Mormons, In the 1800s and the first half of the 1900s, this was not so. Mormons were praised, by themselves, as well as by others, for “taking care of their own”. When I sought service volunteers from Mormon bishops to help in community service, I was consistently told, “We have our own programs,” and was told about the Boy Scouts, Home Teachers, Visiting Teachers, and other endogenous LDS service projects.

I submit that generally speaking caring for whomever since the restoration has been what we do — has been some who were fearful or/and ignorant then and/or now ---- of course.
I know of no other cause that does what it has for whomever, whether religious or not, etc etc in terms of the groups or labels mankind has placed on individual people.

For those who did as you have stated here, that was their own doing ----- I submit it does not reflect the overall leadership and membership of the church. All of the other religious and non religious causes have individuals that do things that may be closed ---- not the LDS church as I know it today and understand historically.

 

[Vonsalza]

Seeking and serving the poor among us — the least among us, whose hands hang down, feeble knees (paraphrase of Bible scripture – pardon if offended for not citing the specific scriptures), nonetheless my church has been serving others in different places in the world,as well as here in the USA, after a natural disaster to gain a upper hand (Mormons Helping Hands ---- the victims with our people working hand and hand, no regard of race, location, religious or not, gay and straight, bi, transgender, etc ------ we just God’s children in their circumstances, lovingly with no interest in reward.

Additional examples of Mormons as Christians to come.

Widespread, institutional kindness and charity can also be found among the Buddhists in Tibet. In that way, they are as Christian as the Mormons are. However, they don’t claim to be Christian on the basis of their altruism.

God being a man from another LDS planet who fathered two brothers - Jesus and Satan - where the followers of Christ will be graded on whether they get into Telestial Heaven, Terrestrial Heaven or, if they’re REALLY devout, Celestial Heaven where they get to be their own god… - These views are incompatible with the doctrines of Christianity.

So in that way, no. Mormons are not Christians.

 

[Horton]

**Widespread, institutional kindness and charity can also be found among the Buddhists in Tibet. In that way, they are as Christian as the Mormons are. However, they don’t claim to be Christian on the basis of their altruism.

**God being a man from another LDS planet who fathered two brothers - Jesus and Satan - where the followers of Christ will be graded on whether they get into Telestial Heaven, Terrestrial Heaven or, if they’re REALLY devout, Celestial Heaven where they get to be their own god… - These views are incompatible with the doctrines of Christianity.

So in that way, no. Mormons are not Christians.

Many people are capable of Christ like behavior, even Atheists, but behaving in a Christ like manner does not make one a Christian.

When Catholics engage in works of mercy, our graces come from doing it of absolute free will, no expectation to have a kindness returned, with no motive except to help another person.

When the LDS engage in good works it is with the idea of making converts. There is a motive outside of a free will gift or desire to help another with no expectation of a return. When non-LDS ask for help there is an expectation the person asking for help with be willing to have the missionaries visit, willing to have home teachers come. There is no such thing as free help with the LDS.

 

[pakengkeng]

Seeking and serving the poor among us — the least among us, whose hands hang down, feeble knees (paraphrase of Bible scripture – pardon if offended for not citing the specific scriptures), nonetheless my church has been serving others in different places in the world,as well as here in the USA, after a natural disaster to gain a upper hand (Mormons Helping Hands ---- the victims with our people working hand and hand, no regard of race, location, religious or not, gay and straight, bi, transgender, etc ------ we just God’s children in their circumstances, lovingly with no interest in reward.

Additional examples of Mormons as Christians to come.

Sad to say that even on this day and age,mormons will prioritize aiding their church members,during calamities.they will ask first what their (victims)religion affiliation is.if youre not one of them,they put you aside or they will tell you to convert to mormonism ,if you want instant .whenever,their members volunteer for agencies like habitat for humanity,they are not their to help,but to proselytize.they are also penetrating catholic groups on social media ,pretending to be catholics.eventually,they show up their true colors and will post videos about Jesus,thru Mormon websites,phishing like proselytizing.

 

[Tarquin]

I submit that generally speaking caring for whomever since the restoration has been what we do — has been some who were fearful or/and ignorant then and/or now ---- of course.
I know of no other cause that does what it has for whomever, whether religious or not, etc etc in terms of the groups or labels mankind has placed on individual people.

For those who did as you have stated here, that was their own doing ----- I submit it does not reflect the overall leadership and membership of the church. All of the other religious and non religious causes have individuals that do things that may be closed ---- not the LDS church as I know it today and understand historically.

“Their own doing” - when the “they” of “their own” includes every bishop and stake president in the District, then “their own doing” is the Church’s own doing and it does reflect the overall leadership and membership of the Church. I remember! Maybe you are too young to remember or were too sheltered away from non-Mormons. Apostles were no more helpful. However, since you believe your Church has always been so altruistic, perhaps you could provide some accounts of significant aid given to non-Mormons in the 1800s, maybe around Meadow Mountains and the valleys of Utah, and in the 1900s maybe some unstinting aid given to Texans after the flood of 1900, San Franciscans in the earthquake of 1906, victims of the 1918 flu. Or if you want to stick with local aid, you can describe the aid given folks cannon-balled at Kington Fort, or tell how the whittling brigades welcomed homelless Protestant missionaries and ex-Mormon divorcees. Sadly, Mormons do not know their Church’s history when it comes to eleemosynary activities - “weighed in the balance and found wanting.”

In your case, neither do you know the history of charitable groups. “I know of no other cause that does what it has for whomever, whether religious or not, etc etc in terms of the groups or labels mankind has placed on individual people.” Then you are as ignorant as the day is long. And you repeat the uninformed boast of Joseph Smith: “I boast that no man ever did such a work as I.” Have you never heard of Catholic Charities USA and Catholic Medical Mission Board? Have you not bothered to examine their revenue, expenditures, and programs? Other charities less boastful than yours, while being more effective, include the Red Cross, the Salvation Army, CRISTA Ministries, Direct Relief, and others. Not all are one-program-does all. Some specialize, nothing wrong with that: Smile Train, Habitat for Humanity, etc. In their own particular spheres, many exceed the achievements of the Mormon Church. This is not a boast. This is offered as counter evidence to the false claim that Mormonism is the epitome of charity.

 

[Tarquin]

So if they aren’t Christian what are they? A heresy? I don’t think they are regarded as separate world religions. Heresies have come and gone as long as the Church has been around. Gnosticism, Docetism, Arianism, I actually was just reading about a heresy in the 5th century where people, mostly women actually worshipped Mary. So if these groups are not Christian, what exactly are they?

When it comes to Jesus, they do believe Jesus is the Son of God. Therefore, to that degree they are Jesus-believers. In rejecting so much of the history and doctrines clearly stated in New Testament (and the Old!), it is difficult to include them as Christians in the normal sense, the modern sense, or even the historical sense. However, if the definition of “Christian” were broadened, Mormonism would be as recognizably Christian as are Gnostics, Children of God (Family of Love, or simply The Family), the Church of Man, the Unification Church, Urantia, Cao Dai, General Church of the New Jerusalem, and many more who believe in Jesus, but not in the history believed, and Bible-based doctrines accepted, by Catholics and typical Protestants.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I submit that generally speaking caring for whomever since the restoration has been what we do — has been some who were fearful or/and ignorant then and/or now ---- of course.
I know of no other cause that does what it has for whomever, whether religious or not, etc etc in terms of the groups or labels mankind has placed on individual people.

For those who did as you have stated here, that was their own doing ----- I submit it does not reflect the overall leadership and membership of the church. All of the other religious and non religious causes have individuals that do things that may be closed ---- not the LDS church as I know it today and understand historically.

Charitable acts of the LDS Church today, for non-LDS, is a fairly new thing. I think it’s great that the organization is doing more than they ever have. But, it is a false claim to say “since the restoration” or to boast “no other”.

When a soup kitchen is opened by LDS on temple property, then we might see that the LDS Church has opened its heart to “the other”. As it is the concern is more about appearance than service.

 

[ajcstr]

Are you Christian ?

youtube.com/watch?v=D4OYMhhpxZM

LOL… I would LOVE to be at this guy’s house when “someone” knocks on the door.

 

[eddie_too]

the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) is the only group that has clearly defined definitions of terms that also possesses a mechanism for resolving disagreements among its leaders and members.

i am unaware of the RCC ever issuing a definition of the word christian. that means that christian means whatever the definition of the person using it.

since, we and everyone else have no way to come to an exact and definitive definition of the word christian, it is, as least in my opinion, a totally fruitless argument to discuss what is the correct definition and to discuss who is a christian.

my two cents, for what its worth.

 

[CatholicSpirit]

Pope Francis has been communicating that our present interpretation of the concept of being a Christian needs work. President Trump, a Methodist, who attends, received prayer from our Pope but was alleged to not behave as a Christian regarding proposed methods of border security. Facebook is now full of “memes” with images of areas leading to Vatican City, mocking their infrastructure. I suppose everyone has a belief, even world leaders, as to what Christianity is.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Pope Francis has been communicating that our present interpretation of the concept of being a Christian needs work. President Trump, a Methodist, who attends, received prayer from our Pope but was alleged to not behave as a Christian regarding proposed methods of border security. Facebook is now full of “memes” with images of areas leading to Vatican City, mocking their infrastructure. I suppose everyone has a belief, even world leaders, as to what Christianity is.

I thought President Trump was Presbyterian

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Pope Francis has been communicating that our present interpretation of the concept of being a Christian needs work. President Trump, a Methodist, who attends, received prayer from our Pope but was alleged to not behave as a Christian regarding proposed methods of border security. Facebook is now full of “memes” with images of areas leading to Vatican City, mocking their infrastructure. I suppose everyone has a belief, even world leaders, as to what Christianity is.

You cannot compare (with all due respect to them) the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses to Methodists (or Presbyterians since Trump isn’t a Methodist). Francis wasn’t talking about doctrine, he was talking about behavior. No one would consider the Presbyterians or the Methodists to be non-Christian.

Both the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, and their baptisms are considered invalid by the Catholic Church. That alone should be sufficient to determine whether we can consider them Christians or not.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Pretty sure the Adventists are considered Trinitarian Christians with a valid baptism according to the catholic church. However if I’m not mistaken they have an odd believe about Jesus being the same as the archangel Michael…again not certain of that but I’ve read about it here before. My dad is a SDA so I know a bit about the faith.

The JWs and Mormons do NOT have a valid trinitarian baptism since they don’t believe in the trinity. AFAIK, JWs are neo-arians.

 

[steido01]

i am unaware of the RCC ever issuing a definition of the word christian. that means that christian means whatever the definition of the person using it.

That’s incorrect. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

And this is repeated:

871 “The Christian faithful are those who, inasmuch as they have been incorporated in Christ through Baptism, have been constituted as the people of God; for this reason, since they have become sharers in Christ’s priestly, prophetic, and royal office in their own manner, they are called to exercise the mission which God has entrusted to the Church to fulfill in the world, in accord with the condition proper to each one.”

Practically all of orthodox Christianity defines ‘Christian’ in this same way. Trinitarian Baptism --understood and practiced in the orthodox sense-- is what defines Christianity. Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are not Christian. Mormons aren’t even monotheists.

 

[steido01]

Pretty sure the Adventists are considered Trinitarian Christians with a valid baptism according to the catholic church.

Correct, as far as I know. Most even believe in the efficacy of at least two Sacraments.

However if I’m not mistaken they have an odd believe about Jesus being the same as the archangel Michael…

Also true. It’s odd, certainly, but not necessarily heresy. It’s akin to the idea some Christians hold that Melchizedek was actually the pre-incarnate Christ. Or that Hebrews was written by Jesus Himself. Odd speculation, but not necessarily heretical.

 

[jas84173]

In an orthodox view of Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and the majority of Protestant denominations; Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses would not be Christian, mainly because the beliefs are so outside of the umbrella of mainstream Christianity that it would not be acceptable to call them so. However; with that said I also wouldn’t categorize them as a separate world religion, say like Judaism or Islam is to Christianity, but more of a heresy to the mainstream Christians. In a world religion platform they would be treated as Christians. Every world religion has sects which the mainstream consider heretical and not a part of the mainstream belief. Say in Islam it would be Amadiyyah Islam. Hare Krishna is considered heretical by the majority of Hindus. However if we were asked what these groups are, most would say a part of Islam or Hinduism just with different beliefs. This topic has been discussed many times on here, is recommend checking it out. So from a mainstream perspective, no they aren’t Christian , most likely a heresy much like has happened since the Church came into existence. Always seems to be heretical groups claiming to be the truth but are not. The Church always comes out on top in the end. Jehovah’s Witnesses and Mormons are lied too. Started by deceivers. Pray for them.

 

[jas84173]

Both Jehovahs Witnesses and Mormons claim a apostasy occurred after the Apostles died and they are the true Church restored. I am not going to say how ridiculous the apostasy thing is, but will say this; We claim they aren’t Christian because of their beliefs such as not accepting the Nicaea Creed and huge differences in the nature of Jesus and are non trinitarian. When it comes down to it though they could say we are not true Christians. Which sounds ridiculous . The apostasy thing they throw around has no merit and personally is a slap in the face to all of the martyrs of the Church. But that’s what they claim, in different circumstances that the Church was going to be restored by them, and to them their teaching of the Gospel is the truth where we are wrong. I am not saying I support this view because I think it a complete heresy; but that is what they believe. So it comes down to really whether or not you think a non trinitarian can be a Christian, and if an apostasy occurred they claim their faiths restored the original Church. So yes they are Christian in a certain point of view. They are also heretics though.

 

[Contarini]

Pope Francis has been communicating that our present interpretation of the concept of being a Christian needs work. President Trump, a Methodist, who attends, received prayer from our Pope but was alleged to not behave as a Christian regarding proposed methods of border security. Facebook is now full of “memes” with images of areas leading to Vatican City, mocking their infrastructure. I suppose everyone has a belief, even world leaders, as to what Christianity is.

President Trump is actually Reformed by heritage and formal affiliation, I believe (I don’t mean conservative Calvinist but mainline/liberal). I don’t think there’s a lot of evidence for him having been a regular churchgoer for much of his life.

And Pope Francis wasn’t trying to redefine our formal definition of a Christian. He was simply making a moral exhortation about the kind of behavior and political agenda that was and wasn’t compatible with our calling as Christians. He did not single out Trump but was asked point blank by the media and responded honestly about his disapproval of Trump’s immigration policies.

 

[jas84173]

Both the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses reject the Christian doctrine of the Trinity, and their baptisms are considered invalid by the Catholic Church. That alone should be sufficient to determine whether we can consider them Christians or not.

Yes. However wouldn’t it be more of a Christian "heresy " in that case? For example, in early Christianity there were many groups such as Gnostics, Montanists, Docetists, Arians etc who claimed to be Christian. They were considered heretical by the Orthodox Church and many of them differed on the view of Jesus or the trinity. Most however were a heresy, not their own religion. What I am pointing out Is, are they only not Christian from the accepted view of Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants (The vast majority anyways). In a sense both groups claim an apostasy happened and the true Church faded after the Apostles died so their claim is that they are the true Church restored. I think it is ridiculous but heresies have challenged the Church since basically following the resurrection, different Christians viewed it different. So is it we can say they are not Christian because they don’t adhere to creeds mainstream Christianity does, or are they just a complete different religion like Judaism and Islam?

 

[Horton]

Yes. However wouldn’t it be more of a Christian "heresy " in that case? For example, in early Christianity there were many groups such as Gnostics, Montanists, Docetists, Arians etc who claimed to be Christian. They were considered heretical by the Orthodox Church and many of them differed on the view of Jesus or the trinity. Most however were a heresy, not their own religion. What I am pointing out Is, are they only not Christian from the accepted view of Catholics, Orthodox, and Protestants (The vast majority anyways). In a sense both groups claim an apostasy happened and the true Church faded after the Apostles died so their claim is that they are the true Church restored. I think it is ridiculous but heresies have challenged the Church since basically following the resurrection, different Christians viewed it different. So is it we can say they are not Christian because they don’t adhere to creeds mainstream Christianity does, or are they just a complete different religion like Judaism and Islam?

In my opinion I feel the LDS are heretics, their belief is a heresy. It seems to me God is an afterthought for them. Joseph Smith decided he wanted to rule a group of people and being the experienced con man he was, throwing a bit of religion gave his theory a bit more credit.

We can say they are not Christian because they do not adhere to mainline creeds and it’s difficult to call them a separate religion as Judaism and Islam due to their belief about who God is.