Are Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses Christian?

[jane_doe]

I have been told by LDS members that the BOM does supersede the bible. Example being if you come to fork in the road scripturally and need proper understanding, you consult the BOM as that is the entire reason for its existence…to “restore” the true gospel.

Speaking from the LDS perspective–
A person should interpret all of scripture together. For example, the Gospel of Luke should not be interpreted without consulting the Gospel of John, Malachi, 3rd Nephi (a BoM book), etc. They all synchronize and support each other. Some things are better explained in the Bible, some better in the BoM, etc.

So were they not being honest?

More likely a mis-communication. The Catholic-LDS language barrier can be very tough.

 

[jane_doe]

“And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” I don’t see how that verse defines what a Christian is. It simply gives a historical account of the first time the word “Christian” was used. It doesn’t even tell us whether the “calling” was one by the Christians themselves or by their pagan opponents.

disciples of Christ = Christian

 

[Bran_Stark]

disciples of Christ = Christian

I happen to agree that “disciples of Christ” and “Christian” are roughly synonymous, but I don’t think that particular passage proves it.

 

[RebeccaJ]

He drop the bombshell question- everybody duuuuuuuuck!!!

Ok, more serious now. It all really comes down to a matter of “what do you define as a Christian”. So, I’m just going to give the facts and let you go with your definition. ** Each list is not exhaustive. **

Things Mormons/Protestants/Catholics all agree on:
*Jesus Christ is the Son of God, creator and savior of this world. Without His atonement, no one could enter in the presence of the Father. He is 100% divine and 100% human. He is 100% perfect and sinless, and all powerful. He suffered, died on the Cross, and was literally physically resurrected. Through Him we may be too.

• The Father is also 100% divine, but He’s not the Son. He is the ultimate creator of the Earth (which was done through Christ). He is 100% perfect and sinless, and all powerful.
• The Holy Spirit is also 100% divine, but He’s none of the others. He is the comforter who bears witness of Christ. He is 100% perfect and sinless, and all powerful.
• The Bible is God’s word.
• A disciple of Christian follows Him, and we should do our best at it.

Things Mormons/Catholics agree on, but not Protestants:

• The Bible is God’s word, but God’s word is not confined to just the Bible.
• God has representative on the Earth, successors of Peter, who administer His earthly Kingdom. Obviously, there are disagreements on who are the successors.
• God’s sacraments are not just for show, but are important rituals for a disciple of Christ to go through. Obviously differences in the rituals themselves.

Things Catholics/Protestants agree on, but not Mormons:

• The Father/Son/Spirit have a shared substance.

Also note: LDS use the Bible’s definition of Christian, a disciple of Christ, and acknowledge both Catholics and Protestants as Christians. Obviously, there are differences in theology and all of the above are not in communion.

This is of course sophistry. First of you’re describing the LDS teaching of multiple gods. Polytheism is 100% rejected by Catholics and Protestants. Beyond that, LDS use Christian terms but have redefined every single one to mean something different.

And I doubt you will find an LDS Church teaching that describes Jesus as fully human and fully divine. LDS teaching on this is clearly in the Jesus-is-a-demigod arena.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Speaking from the LDS perspective–
A person should interpret all of scripture together. For example, the Gospel of Luke should not be interpreted without consulting the Gospel of John, Malachi, 3rd Nephi (a BoM book), etc. They all synchronize and support each other. Some things are better explained in the Bible, some better in the BoM, etc.

More likely a mis-communication. The Catholic-LDS language barrier can be very tough.

This is one of the main difficulties of moving from Mormonism to Christianity. That is, to stop filtering the Christian gospel through non-Christian scripture. It’s like saying the NT and Koran go hand in hand, which is the belief of some, but by these practices people are placed in a position of being diverted from authentic Christian teachings.

 

[adf417]

disciples of Christ = Christian

Hi jane, is it of the Mormon teaching that JW’s are Christians?

Peace!!!

 

[RebeccaJ]

The LDS Church accepts fully the New Testament (as far as the translation is correct.) Don’t Protestants also reject “Sacred Tradition” in favor of “sola scriptura”? Don’t Catholics also rely on sources like the Old Testament that are outside the New Testament and “Sacred Tradition”? Where are the 10 commandments found? I respectfully disagree that the Book of Mormon is a creation of man.

Protestant issues are different than Mormon issues. For one, mainline Protestants accept the first seven councils, which places them squarely in following some Sacred Tradition.

But I absolutely view Mormonism as a logical conclusion to fractional Protestantism. That is, split after split after split has a logical conclusion in Mormonism, but Mormonism is not the only logical conclusion.

 

[rcwitness]

He drop the bombshell question- everybody duuuuuuuuck!!!

Ok, more serious now. It all really comes down to a matter of “what do you define as a Christian”. So, I’m just going to give the facts and let you go with your definition. ** Each list is not exhaustive. **

Things Mormons/Protestants/Catholics all agree on:
*Jesus Christ is the Son of God, creator and savior of this world. Without His atonement, no one could enter in the presence of the Father. He is 100% divine and 100% human. He is 100% perfect and sinless, and all powerful. He suffered, died on the Cross, and was literally physically resurrected. Through Him we may be too.

• The Father is also 100% divine, but He’s not the Son. He is the ultimate creator of the Earth (which was done through Christ). He is 100% perfect and sinless, and all powerful.
• The Holy Spirit is also 100% divine, but He’s none of the others. He is the comforter who bears witness of Christ. He is 100% perfect and sinless, and all powerful.
• The Bible is God’s word.
• A disciple of Christian follows Him, and we should do our best at it.

Things Mormons/Catholics agree on, but not Protestants:

• The Bible is God’s word, but God’s word is not confined to just the Bible.
• God has representative on the Earth, successors of Peter, who administer His earthly Kingdom. Obviously, there are disagreements on who are the successors.
• God’s sacraments are not just for show, but are important rituals for a disciple of Christ to go through. Obviously differences in the rituals themselves.

Things Catholics/Protestants agree on, but not Mormons:

• The Father/Son/Spirit have a shared substance.

Also note: LDS use the Bible’s definition of Christian, a disciple of Christ, and acknowledge both Catholics and Protestants as Christians. Obviously, there are differences in theology and all of the above are not in communion.

The way you have explained your faith here, should conformed to Christianity. Though, I’m not sure you are addressing some important differences.

From this post alone, I would begin by asking how you define “substance”, when you profess God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as being of separate “substance”?

We would say the true substance of the Three have their origins and reality in one being, yet they have distinction. So they are one God in three persons. It’s really such a difficult thing to express in language. There is one God, Who is not alone in Himself. He is a father, He is a son, and they have a love for one another.

 

[Rosebud77]

The simplistic impression they have given me over the years is that they believe fully in the wrath of an angry God without the intervening mercy of Jesus. JEHOVAH with no mercy…

 

[John_Lazarus]

disciples of Christ = Christian

Indeed they are. They are a mainline Protestant Christian denomination in the United States in the Reformed tradition.

 

[rcwitness]

Indeed they are. They are a mainline Protestant Christian denomination in the United States in the Reformed tradition.

Was Antioch a secret name for the USA?

 

[Hatikvah]

I say “yes,” Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other groups that Catholics do not identify as Christians are Christians. Interestingly enough, I made a thread on the matter: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1020523

There is one simple test as to who is a Christian:

for, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (Romans 10:9, NAB)

Mormons, Jehovah’s Witnesses, and all sorts of groups pass this test. However, it also defines Christianity: Islam is not Christianity because it does not pass the test; Baha’i is not because it does not pass the test, etc.

To me, it is simple. By the way, NAB is a Holy See-approved Catholic Bible.

 

[superwimp]

I have always debated this. From what I have read they do have similarities however the differences make it impossible for a traditional Christian to accept these groups as Christian. I try to give them a second doubt as some Protestant Christians say Catholics aren’t Christian. In any case this is how their websites defend them as being Christian. Thoughts please as I am very conflicted on this.

jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-christians/
ttps://www.mormon.org/faq/topic/about-mormons/question/mormon-christian

Hello jas,
I don’t have a comment on whether or not any of them are Christian or not but with regards to the LDS, their leadership is claiming that the only people who can claim the title of Mormon are members of there church.
bycommonconsent.com/2008/07/15/yes-non-lds-mormons-are-mormons/

 

[jane_doe]

Hi jane, is it of the Mormon teaching that JW’s are Christians?

Peace!!!

I am not overly familiar with JW beliefs, so I cannot say. Do they confess that Christ is their Lord and Savior?

 

[Michael68]

I am not overly familiar with JW beliefs, so I cannot say. Do they confess that Christ is their Lord and Savior?

I hear this from Protestants a lot and I’m wondering exactly where in the Bible that requirement is made.

 

[jane_doe]

From this post alone, I would begin by asking how you define “substance”, when you profess God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit as being of separate “substance”?

This whole “substance” thing is not an LDS concept, so I am a poor person to explain it.

We would say the true substance of the Three have their origins and reality in one being, yet they have distinction. So they are one God in three persons. It’s really such a difficult thing to express in language. There is one God, Who is not alone in Himself. He is a father, He is a son, and they have a love for one another.

LDS view: they are 3 beings. 100% united in righteousness, perfection, purpose, divinity, etc, and because of that are ONE God. But if you wanted to invite them all to dinner, you would need 3 chairs.

 

[CeelosDeznos]

These other groups have only to answer for themselves to God. Despite their own views, we are not their judges, and despite how some of them might view our beliefs, they are not our judges either. While their views may be questionable to us with different convictions, in the end it is not up to any of us. And there is a danger to raising this issue up too.

Stop Trying to Judge the Other As a Genuine Christian

If you believe that you are just engaging in friendly apologetic speech or debate, think again. Scripture asks: “Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before their own lord that they stand or fall. And that one will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make them stand.”–Romans 14:4.

If you are a Christian, how can you go against these words in Romans and start passing judgment on who is or who isn’t a Christian? Does not this Scripture apply to you? Where is the pass you have received from God that says you are free from applying this text to how you view and treat others?

“But these other so-called Christians say horrible things about me and my religion!”

And that warrants your misbehavior? Dear Christian who judges the validity of other Christians, why do you not follow the words of Christ about not retaliating when someone insults you? “Do not oppose those who are evil. If they slap you on your right cheek, offer to them the left cheek as well.”–Matthew 5:29.

And again: “Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”–Matthew 5:44.

You don’t get a free pass to act just as badly as the one who judges you. If you are a Christian as you claim, you must not only expect to get the occasional “slap” of insult on the cheek from those who oppose you, you must be willing to uncomplainingly ‘offer the other cheek as well’! And if they persecute you in action or even just words, it is required that you “love” them in response and pray for their well-being. “Bless those who persecute you. Bless, and do not curse them.”–Romans 12:14.

“But aren’t you judging me for judging others?”

Did I make up these words I am pointing out to you from Scripture? I should not have to be pointing them out. We are here talking about what makes up a real Christian, are we not? “Have I now become your enemy somehow because I am telling you the truth?”–Galatians 4:16.

A Christian is not someone who claims they are a Christian. A Christian is someone who acts like a Christian. If you do not obey the words of Christ, then how can you claim you are a Christian? And if you do not follow Christ’s instruction, how is it you can judge who is truly Christian and who is not?

“This is how we prove that we know [the Lord]: if we keep his commandments. The one who claims, ‘I know him,’ while not keeping his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”–1 John 2:3-4.

If you do not obey the Lord when it comes to dealing with others, then you do not know him. It doesn’t matter what you claim to the contrary, for it is written: “I judged them according to their conduct and their actions.” (Ezekiel 36:19) And again: “God will repay every one according to what they each have done." (Romans 2:6) And once more: “The same way you judge others is the way you will be judged, and with the measure you use for others, it will be used to measured you.”–Matthew 7:2.

Why argue the point? Why not engage in good works instead? Do you not know that you will be judged not by how you persuade others but how you meet their needs when they are hungry, poor, thirsty, naked, alone and are a stranger to you?–Matthew 25:31-46.

These types of discussions serve no good purpose. They are not the speech of Christians. Even if you feel the need to “prove yourself” on a forum, it is an illusion. You have only to prove yourself to God.

And so does your neighbor, regardless of their religious affiliation or lack thereof.

 

[rcwitness]

This whole “substance” thing is not an LDS concept, so I am a poor person to explain it.

LDS view: they are 3 beings. 100% united in righteousness, perfection, purpose, divinity, etc, and because of that are ONE God. But if you wanted to invite them all to dinner, you would need 3 chairs.

I’m not sure that analogy helps me. The Father and the Holy Spirit are not humans that would need chairs.

Philip said to him, “Lord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.”*Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

 

[HelenRose]

I have always debated this. From what I have read they do have similarities however the differences make it impossible for a traditional Christian to accept these groups as Christian. I try to give them a second doubt as some Protestant Christians say Catholics aren’t Christian. In any case this is how their websites defend them as being Christian. Thoughts please as I am very conflicted on this.

jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/are-jehovahs-witnesses-christians/
ttps://www.mormon.org/faq/topic/about-mormons/question/mormon-christian

It depends on how one defines Christian.

We can go around and around and around arguing semantics but that really is a waste of time.

 

[gus]

“And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.” I don’t see how that verse defines what a Christian is. It simply gives a historical account of the first time the word “Christian” was used. It doesn’t even tell us whether the “calling” was one by the Christians themselves or by their pagan opponents.

Yet we know a lot about the Church in Antioch through the writings of Ignatius ,their Bishop a disciple of John and ordained by Peter.
They were not only Christain but believed that they were members of something far greater than their own Church. The Church they belonged to was truly Catholic.